The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey Team

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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:30 pm

Iginla's PPG numbers last year (playing on his off wing) were similar to his numbers this year. Regular season was .85 and playoffs were .8. This season he's at .79.

And no, I'm not doing this to defend anyone. I'm just pointing put that he really isn't statistically better in Boston compared to his time here.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:33 pm

(referring to columbia's last post)

Perfect, so we're in agreement. Short of gutting the team and rebuilding (we are a very good team, after all), what's the easiest way to try and change those things you just mentioned?

You change the coach and see if the performance of the players changes. If not, you start to change the players and if that doesn't move the needle, ownership changes the GM.

I don't get the resistance here.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby columbia on Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:39 pm

I'm not resisting. Merely pointing out that you were making a poor argument (re: Crosby's play) for doing so.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby bhaw on Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:42 pm

columbia wrote:I'm not resisting. Merely pointing out that you were making a poor argument (re: Crosby's play) for doing so.


The penalties? I simply disagree that a coach can't change the way a star player acts. Is it hard? Yeah.

Also, Crosby was one example of many in my main point re: when teams play D on us, we go into angry child mode. Crosby along with a vast majority of the players are guilty of it.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby RxBandit66 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:16 pm

bhaw wrote:
columbia wrote:I'm not resisting. Merely pointing out that you were making a poor argument (re: Crosby's play) for doing so.


The penalties? I simply disagree that a coach can't change the way a star player acts. Is it hard? Yeah.

Also, Crosby was one example of many in my main point re: when teams play D on us, we go into angry child mode. Crosby along with a vast majority of the players are guilty of it.


I agree that at this point, perhaps only a strict disciplinarian of a coach with a structured defensive system can reverse the tide. Beyond that, key players have to start being moved, and then we're talking about blowing things up. I've always thought a new coach was the better option. For whatever reason, the players fall apart in these types of games under Bylsma, so eventually that has to fall on Bylsma, fair or not.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Nizzy on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:43 pm

This was about the 3rd full Pens game I've watched this season. I'm glad to say I haven't wasted much time on this team.

This team is laughably bad.

I just hope Bylsma doesn't get a free pass this season for the "injuries" excuse. My favorite part of the game was the start of the 3rd period, down 0-4: Orpik, Engelland, Glass, Adams. LOL! Turnovers all game, players running into each other, Crosby down 0-2 crying for a stupid tripping call.

What a pathetic team. Please fire Dan Bylsma, I can't even watch this.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Bioshock on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:48 pm

Pens got their asses kicked today. Injuries catching up. Can't blame Bylsma though. His coaching has been tremendous since the Olympic break outside of the Chicago game.

Get em' next game.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:51 pm

Nizzy wrote:This was about the 3rd full Pens game I've watched this season. I'm glad to say I haven't wasted much time on this team.

This team is laughably bad.

I just hope Bylsma doesn't get a free pass this season for the "injuries" excuse. My favorite part of the game was the start of the 3rd period, down 0-4: Orpik, Engelland, Glass, Adams. LOL! Turnovers all game, players running into each other, Crosby down 0-2 crying for a stupid tripping call.

What a pathetic team. Please fire Dan Bylsma, I can't even watch this.


You watched 3 full games and you sit there and and say this team is terrible and DB should be fired? Wow. :scared:
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Bioshock on Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:53 pm

iWonTheCup87 wrote:
Nizzy wrote:This was about the 3rd full Pens game I've watched this season. I'm glad to say I haven't wasted much time on this team.

This team is laughably bad.

I just hope Bylsma doesn't get a free pass this season for the "injuries" excuse. My favorite part of the game was the start of the 3rd period, down 0-4: Orpik, Engelland, Glass, Adams. LOL! Turnovers all game, players running into each other, Crosby down 0-2 crying for a stupid tripping call.

What a pathetic team. Please fire Dan Bylsma, I can't even watch this.


You watched 3 full games and you sit there and and say this team is terrible and DB should be fired? Wow. :scared:


Was going to say the same thing but you said it better and without chance of banning. Good stuff.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby SolidSnake on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:05 pm

Nizzy wrote:This was about the 3rd full Pens game I've watched this season. I'm glad to say I haven't wasted much time on this team.

This team is laughably bad.

I just hope Bylsma doesn't get a free pass this season for the "injuries" excuse. My favorite part of the game was the start of the 3rd period, down 0-4: Orpik, Engelland, Glass, Adams. LOL! Turnovers all game, players running into each other, Crosby down 0-2 crying for a stupid tripping call.

What a pathetic team. Please fire Dan Bylsma, I can't even watch this.

Weren't you done a few days ago?
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Gaucho on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:06 pm

Nizzy wrote:This team is laughably bad.


Image
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:06 pm

Nizzy is no more than a glorified Puck Drama. Just ignore and move on.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby skullman80 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:11 pm

This team has issues.

Laughingly bad though.... nah ... the 03/04 team.... thats laughably bad.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby meow on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:25 pm

This team is laughingly bad. Laughingly bad. Laughingly. Bad.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby dodint on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:45 pm

iWonTheCup87 wrote:
Nizzy wrote:This was about the 3rd full Pens game I've watched this season. I'm glad to say I haven't wasted much time on this team.

This team is laughably bad.

I just hope Bylsma doesn't get a free pass this season for the "injuries" excuse. My favorite part of the game was the start of the 3rd period, down 0-4: Orpik, Engelland, Glass, Adams. LOL! Turnovers all game, players running into each other, Crosby down 0-2 crying for a stupid tripping call.

What a pathetic team. Please fire Dan Bylsma, I can't even watch this.


You watched 3 full games and you sit there and and say this team is terrible and DB should be fired? Wow. :scared:


If he only watched the Florida, Chicago, and todays game then he might have a valid point. ;)
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby slappybrown on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:54 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Iginla's PPG numbers last year (playing on his off wing) were similar to his numbers this year. Regular season was .85 and playoffs were .8. This season he's at .79.

And no, I'm not doing this to defend anyone. I'm just pointing put that he really isn't statistically better in Boston compared to his time here.

I've watched maybe 4 or 5 Bruins game this year in total, so I'm no Bruins expert, but his advanced stats are much better in Boston. He was a negative shot differential here playing the most with Malkin/Neal/Kunitz, and he's a strong plus this year (about 54 percent for versus 47 or so for with the Pens) and he's playing with Krejci/Lucic, who are very good players in their own right though still short of Malkin/Neal IMO. Boston is one of the 3 or 4 truly elite possession teams and was before Iginla, so its tough to parse out solely on numbers, but it does pretty strongly indicate he's been a better player in BOS.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:58 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
columbia wrote:I'm not resisting. Merely pointing out that you were making a poor argument (re: Crosby's play) for doing so.


The penalties? I simply disagree that a coach can't change the way a star player acts. Is it hard? Yeah.

Also, Crosby was one example of many in my main point re: when teams play D on us, we go into angry child mode. Crosby along with a vast majority of the players are guilty of it.


I agree that at this point, perhaps only a strict disciplinarian of a coach with a structured defensive system can reverse the tide. Beyond that, key players have to start being moved, and then we're talking about blowing things up. I've always thought a new coach was the better option. For whatever reason, the players fall apart in these types of games under Bylsma, so eventually that has to fall on Bylsma, fair or not.


bhaw, you are just making way too much sense. The issue really is progress and there so clearly is regression. Just apply "the eye test". Not just results, although we are heading full steam ahead into Epic Collapse V, but the way the team reacts to adversity. Mr Madden has referred to it as "the boo boo face" and it appears way too quickly. And repeatedly. Year after year after year after year and to the same stimuli.

The reasons are clear and it is not changing and will not change with Disco. We all saw Therrien, just recently in PGH, bench PK Subban in the third period of a tie game for the type of heinous giveaway that we as Pens fans regularly witness. But Danny B is just too friendly, too much one of the guys and, worse, he is weak and the team senses it. Dan Bylsma is a poor leader. Just look at his handling of guys like Despres and Bortuzzo as compared to Orpik and Scuderi.

Rob Scuderi has been absolutely brutal. He barely competes, veers away from hits and consistently fails to defend his cage and his netminder. He is an awful example for all the young D men in this organization. He doesn't move guys away from the crease and he never makes opposing forwards pay any kind of price for gratuitous whacks at Fleury. Despres and Bortuzzo make mistakes, and they will, but they compete every shift. They take pride and defend the crease with bad intentions.

What does DB do? He has two completely different standards, benching the young guys for mistakes which are often the result of trying too hard while consistently giving ice time to the veterans, no matter how many mistakes or lazy, thoughtless plays they make. DB is weak and his double standards and failure to hold the upper echelon accountable is malfeasance of the talent he has been given.

Honestly, regrettably, I have seen more progress from the Flyers under The Chief, Craig Berube, in five months than our friendly Disco has managed in 5 years. Ironically, the Flyers turnaround really started when The Chief brought his team to Pittsburgh very early in his tenure, got every matchup he wanted all night long and dismantled Bylsma. That win, not the Emery fight, got the Flyers off the mat. Today was just a repeat and not surprising given that Bylsma had more than 2 days off between games to "prepare".

That this is on Shero is also undeniable. He has completely failed to add legit forward talent through the draft, downsized the roster for a team that allegedly wants to "grind dem *peaches* dahn" and, in a buyers market, was unable to add much needed physicality, snarl and muscle to the bottom six or add a legit top six guy to play with Sid. Most egregious, he stuck by this coaching staff after 4 abysmal playoff failures and little sign of progress.

When they flame out this spring, 66 must make the really tough choices and I hope he already has candidates in mind.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Nizzy on Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:03 pm

Getting banned? Don't worry, Three Stars has personally insulted me before and is an admin. Not so sure if he is the site owners friend or not but you won't get banned for your comments/insults at me. For the record, I could care less, but it is pathetic when people do attack people on these boards. I know I have extreme views, but that is because I'm passionate and this current joke of a team does actually upset me this bad.

I've watched the Bylsma Penguins enough since 2009, and I just can't take Bylsma anymore. I was broken as a fan after the Boston series. I just went into the off season with my mind blocked on hockey. Put too much in emotion into last year, and the team looked so bad in the playoffs.

Stop caring about the regular season. In a 7 game series Bylsma is predictable, stubborn, & arrogant. Besides the 2009 finals win, with "Still Therrien's System" -Admitted by Bylsma, what has this loser coach done in the playoffs? 4 seasons in a row, losing to a worse seeded team. It's going to be the 5th year in a row.

We are in the middle of a great window to win cups. Ray Shero sits there and says stuff like, "he's getting better". We don't have 5 seasons for Bylsma to "Get better". We are throwing away cup chances now. Bylsma can't coach. He can't match up vs good teams. It wasn't just the way philly/boston beat the Pens. They were out-coached/out-executed. Just a complete coaching failure.

But yeah, you know, lets give him a pass because the team is injured. What game did you guys watch today???


nice posts chirpin/bhaw
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:14 pm

Nizzy wrote:Getting banned? Don't worry, Three Stars has personally insulted me before and is an admin. Not so sure if he is the site owners friend or not but you won't get banned for your comments/insults at me. For the record, I could care less, but it is pathetic when people do attack people on these boards. I know I have extreme views, but that is because I'm passionate and this current joke of a team does actually upset me this bad.

I've watched the Bylsma Penguins enough since 2009, and I just can't take Bylsma anymore. I was broken as a fan after the Boston series. I just went into the off season with my mind blocked on hockey. Put too much in emotion into last year, and the team looked so bad in the playoffs.

Stop caring about the regular season. In a 7 game series Bylsma is predictable, stubborn, & arrogant. Besides the 2009 finals win, with "Still Therrien's System" -Admitted by Bylsma, what has this loser coach done in the playoffs? 4 seasons in a row, losing to a worse seeded team. It's going to be the 5th year in a row.

We are in the middle of a great window to win cups. Ray Shero sits there and says stuff like, "he's getting better". We don't have 5 seasons for Bylsma to "Get better". We are throwing away cup chances now. Bylsma can't coach. He can't match up vs good teams. It wasn't just the way philly/boston beat the Pens. They were out-coached/out-executed. Just a complete coaching failure.

But yeah, you know, lets give him a pass because the team is injured. What game did you guys watch today???



I feel ya Nizz... lets leave the ad hominems out of the discussion, we are all Pens fans after all! We want the same thing and our disagreements over how exactly to reach it are the reason this board exists... :thumb:

Regarding Bylsma, I also feel. I still watch every game but I have zero confidence in a team led by disco winning 16 games when they really matter. Really Shero should act now and get rid of goofy Todd Richards and Bylsma, turn the bench over to Martin for now and bring in Rick Tocchet to be the bad ass. Well past Time to kick some clahns outta tahn!
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:51 am

Nizzy wrote:Getting banned? Don't worry, Three Stars has personally insulted me before and is an admin. Not so sure if he is the site owners friend or not but you won't get banned for your comments/insults at me. For the record, I could care less, but it is pathetic when people do attack people on these boards. I know I have extreme views, but that is because I'm passionate and this current joke of a team does actually upset me this bad.

I've watched the Bylsma Penguins enough since 2009, and I just can't take Bylsma anymore. I was broken as a fan after the Boston series. I just went into the off season with my mind blocked on hockey. Put too much in emotion into last year, and the team looked so bad in the playoffs.

Stop caring about the regular season. In a 7 game series Bylsma is predictable, stubborn, & arrogant. Besides the 2009 finals win, with "Still Therrien's System" -Admitted by Bylsma, what has this loser coach done in the playoffs? 4 seasons in a row, losing to a worse seeded team. It's going to be the 5th year in a row.

We are in the middle of a great window to win cups. Ray Shero sits there and says stuff like, "he's getting better". We don't have 5 seasons for Bylsma to "Get better". We are throwing away cup chances now. Bylsma can't coach. He can't match up vs good teams. It wasn't just the way philly/boston beat the Pens. They were out-coached/out-executed. Just a complete coaching failure.

But yeah, you know, lets give him a pass because the team is injured. What game did you guys watch today???


nice posts chirpin/bhaw


One game doesn't define a season. That is the point. No one is going to argue that they were not ready to play and it was probably one of the worst games I have seen them play in a few years. BUT it is ONE game. How you can get that upset and think the season is over because of one bad game without a good amount of the starters is whats shocking to most people. DB will be judged harshly in this years playoffs and if they lose early to a bad team he should probably be fired. As much as a lot of people might not have too much faith, you have to think that last year really pissed off the players and they wont let it happen again. At least that is my optimism.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby skullman80 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:05 am

Shouldn't 2012 have pissed off the players? I mean they got embarassed by the Flyers that year. Shouldn't the Tampa Series have embarrassed the players since they were up 3-1 in that series?(though i can almost give a pass since Geno/Sid were both out, but still up 3-1 you have to finish a team off)

This isn't just one game. It's been happening a lot this year, and the last few years.

I hope they prove me wrong though. I don't want to be right with how I perceive this team and their issues heading into the playoffs. I'd rather be dead wrong with my thoughts and have them win the cup then have them get embarrassed out of the playoffs.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Great58 on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:25 am

To the Pens this was one of 82 games. The the Flyers, it was one of 17 remaining to scrape into the playoffs. So one was a desperate team, the other less so. And missing two top 6 wingers and 2 members of the first PP unit. So yeah, we weren't all there yesterday. I'll be more concerned if we get outplayed today.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby topshelf on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:38 am

As of right now:

- We're one of the top 5 teams in the league.
- We have the league's best PP.
- We have the second-best PK.
- We have the league's leading scorer (with a 15-point lead).
- We have two guys in the top 5 for assists.
- We have one guy in the top 3 for plus/minus.
- We have a goalie with the most wins in the league, who is also second in shutouts and in the top 10 in goals against average.

All of this with over 400 man games lost, which is over 100 more man games lost than the second highest team in the league (and some pretty high-profile names on our list).

Yeah... we're laughably bad.

Give me a break.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Gaucho on Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:44 am

Great58 wrote:And missing two top 6 wingers


3
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Mr. Colby on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:10 am

This is a very frustrating team. I know this was only one game and in the regular season its fine to have stinkers. But man why cant that team that showed up vs. Washington the last 2 games be the one thatshows up more often than not
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