Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014-15

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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby pcm on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:16 am

Letang had a down year for sure last year. But I still would choose him over Subban. And that's no knock on Subban. If Letang stays healthy, I wouldn't be surpised to see him win the Norris next season. I think HCMJ is going to do wonders for him. It sounds like the tenants of his system will play to the strengths of both Letang and Despres, while simplifying things all around. I bet they thrive.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:24 am

pcm wrote:Letang had a down year for sure last year. But I still would choose him over Subban. And that's no knock on Subban. If Letang stays healthy, I wouldn't be surpised to see him win the Norris next season. I think HCMJ is going to do wonders for him. It sounds like the tenants of his system will play to the strengths of both Letang and Despres, while simplifying things all around. I bet they thrive.


Subban >> Letang

No question
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:36 am

Skill and hockey sense wise, I say it's even, but Letang's stroke thing this year scares me.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:46 am

I'd give a slight edge to Subban on both. Better three-zone carrier too. And I'm very pro-Letang.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby pcm on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:52 am

Agreed on Subban's edge offensively. But I think Letang is a much better defender. Or at least, he has that potential. Kinda like the comparison between Murphy and Coffey.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:24 am

Wow I had liked what what Tim Murray was doing in Buffalo, but $4.6m per over 5 seasons for Tyler Ennis??

Buffalo already had Cody Hodgson on a 6 year, $25.5m deal, $4.25m per.

Hard to imagine Sutter signing for less on a long term deal than either of these guys.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:36 am

Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:37 am

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Wow I had liked what what Tim Murray was doing in Buffalo, but $4.6m per over 5 seasons for Tyler Ennis??

Buffalo already had Cody Hodgson on a 6 year, $25.5m deal, $4.25m per.

Hard to imagine Sutter signing for less on a long term deal than either of these guys.


Extremely easy to imagine as they are not related at all to Sutter in terms of style or reputation...
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:38 am

mikey287 wrote:Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?


Sweet 1960s reference. :lol: That should clear things up for everyone here.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:38 am

Jim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
ar5 wrote:No clue who this guy is.... but he claims:

RumorBreak ‏@RumorBreak 33m
**BREAKING**: Habs and Pens have indeed talked about a potential Letang deal. Penguins want Beaulieu AND Gallagher in any deal.

https://twitter.com/RumorBreak/statu...91931761340416



Just for the sake of discussion... (Assuming the guy posting the rumor on Twitter, is indeed, making this up)
Do these two players make sense to PGH? Don't know much about them...

That would be an even bigger disappointment in terms of return value via trade than the Neal trade... And that was bad.


Yep... Nashville came out on the short end and should be disappointed...


Yea something tells me that David Poile isn't feeling short-changed. Nashville acquired the best scorer in the deal, which they have needed since their inception. And with the cap space they gained by not having to pay Spaling, the guy you haven't even seen play but who will command north of $2m for meager second line production, they added Derek Roy and Mike Ribeiro. I don't really like any of the three, but Ribeiro and Roy for $2m > Spaling at $2m+.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:39 am

Crankshaft wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?


Sweet 1960s reference. :lol: That should clear things up for everyone here.


Yeah, I know, but I couldn't think of any 90's players that really apply...I'd rather name them than not make a close comparison...
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:41 am

mikey287 wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?


Sweet 1960s reference. :lol: That should clear things up for everyone here.


Yeah, I know, but I couldn't think of any 90's players that really apply...I'd rather name them than not make a close comparison...

Leetch? Meh I dunno. Zubov?

Desjardins?
Housley?
Last edited by Pavel Bure on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:42 am

mikey287 wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Wow I had liked what what Tim Murray was doing in Buffalo, but $4.6m per over 5 seasons for Tyler Ennis??

Buffalo already had Cody Hodgson on a 6 year, $25.5m deal, $4.25m per.

Hard to imagine Sutter signing for less on a long term deal than either of these guys.


Extremely easy to imagine as they are not related at all to Sutter in terms of style or reputation...


Do you actually think that Sutter will sign for less long term than any of these guys???

He isn't going to be arguing for this salary in arbitration, we are talking what the market will bear. If Sutter were willing to sign for anything near the Hodgson contract, it would probably be done by now.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:48 am

Pavel Bure wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?


Sweet 1960s reference. :lol: That should clear things up for everyone here.


Yeah, I know, but I couldn't think of any 90's players that really apply...I'd rather name them than not make a close comparison...

Leetch? Meh I dunno. Zubov?


Leetch crossed my mind for Letang, but Letang has more snarl to his game. I don't find Zubov to be a match for either of them personally. But good names to throw out.

Neither of them are Housley-bad at defense, not even close, in my opinion. Desjardins didn't have the puck-rushing ability of either of them I don't feel and was less erratic...also he disliked the spotlight, while both Letang and Subban love the stardom...
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:49 am

mikey287 wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Murphy was a far worse skater, far smarter and far better defensively than either player could possibly be. If we're throwing out comparables, maybe we're looking more at Guy Lapointe and Pierre Pilote...?


Sweet 1960s reference. :lol: That should clear things up for everyone here.


Yeah, I know, but I couldn't think of any 90's players that really apply...I'd rather name them than not make a close comparison...

Leetch? Meh I dunno. Zubov?


Leetch crossed my mind for Letang, but Letang has more snarl to his game. I don't find Zubov to be a match for either of them personally. But good names to throw out.

Yeah it's hard with 90's guys to find skating, offense, and a little snarl. Macinnis crossed my mind but neither of these 2 guys have that shot.
Last edited by Pavel Bure on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:50 am

mikey287 wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Wow I had liked what what Tim Murray was doing in Buffalo, but $4.6m per over 5 seasons for Tyler Ennis??

Buffalo already had Cody Hodgson on a 6 year, $25.5m deal, $4.25m per.

Hard to imagine Sutter signing for less on a long term deal than either of these guys.


Extremely easy to imagine as they are not related at all to Sutter in terms of style or reputation...

Or production. His production is on par with Ott, but Ott is better at faceoffs and better defensively. And he only got what 2.6?Sutter being 5 years younger is worth what? 500-600k? Certainly not $1.5M.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby meow on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:56 am

Yes to all that, except the better defensively part.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby pcm on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:15 pm

I guess Niedermayer has always been my comparison for Letang, now that I think about it.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:21 pm

pcm wrote:I guess Niedermayer has always been my comparison for Letang, now that I think about it.

Letang just has a temper and is physical at times. Nieds was just silkly smooth skating and stick work. Still very good player.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Jim on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:28 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
pcm wrote:Letang had a down year for sure last year. But I still would choose him over Subban. And that's no knock on Subban. If Letang stays healthy, I wouldn't be surpised to see him win the Norris next season. I think HCMJ is going to do wonders for him. It sounds like the tenants of his system will play to the strengths of both Letang and Despres, while simplifying things all around. I bet they thrive.


Subban >> Letang

No question


Is that because he is more physical and a much more well rounded defenseman as opposed basically just a premier offensive defemseman?
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Jim on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:32 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yea something tells me that David Poile isn't feeling short-changed. Nashville acquired the best scorer in the deal, which they have needed since their inception. And with the cap space they gained by not having to pay Spaling, the guy you haven't even seen play but who will command north of $2m for meager second line production, they added Derek Roy and Mike Ribeiro. I don't really like any of the three, but Ribeiro and Roy for $2m > Spaling at $2m+.


Actually, in the video of him from the draft it is quite easy to see that Polie was NOT sold on moving Hornqvist for Neal, at all. He basically had to be talked into it imo.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby pcm on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:42 pm

It's a big trade. If LA came along and offered Doughty for Letang, it'd require some real discussion between our GM comittee and owners. That's not a deal that you just do because you can. Regardless, I think most people in hockey would accept. Just as most would have pulled the trigger in Poile's position, being offered Neal for Hornqvist.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Jim wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
pcm wrote:Letang had a down year for sure last year. But I still would choose him over Subban. And that's no knock on Subban. If Letang stays healthy, I wouldn't be surpised to see him win the Norris next season. I think HCMJ is going to do wonders for him. It sounds like the tenants of his system will play to the strengths of both Letang and Despres, while simplifying things all around. I bet they thrive.


Subban >> Letang

No question


Is that because he is more physical and a much more well rounded defenseman as opposed basically just a premier offensive defemseman?


Subban just does everything better than Letang. Subban is also more of a game-changer than Letang. Subban makes things happen.

My main issue with Subban is that I've lost respect for him due to his terrible dramatics in the playoffs this year. He REALLLLY over did it.

That being said, I still take Subban over Letang without hesitation.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:52 pm

Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yea something tells me that David Poile isn't feeling short-changed. Nashville acquired the best scorer in the deal, which they have needed since their inception. And with the cap space they gained by not having to pay Spaling, the guy you haven't even seen play but who will command north of $2m for meager second line production, they added Derek Roy and Mike Ribeiro. I don't really like any of the three, but Ribeiro and Roy for $2m > Spaling at $2m+.


Actually, in the video of him from the draft it is quite easy to see that Polie was NOT sold on moving Hornqvist for Neal, at all. He basically had to be talked into it imo.


That's just business. You can never seem over-anxious.
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Re: Thread of Very Respectful Off Season Discussion for 2014

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:12 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Jim wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
pcm wrote:Letang had a down year for sure last year. But I still would choose him over Subban. And that's no knock on Subban. If Letang stays healthy, I wouldn't be surpised to see him win the Norris next season. I think HCMJ is going to do wonders for him. It sounds like the tenants of his system will play to the strengths of both Letang and Despres, while simplifying things all around. I bet they thrive.


Subban >> Letang

No question


Is that because he is more physical and a much more well rounded defenseman as opposed basically just a premier offensive defemseman?


Subban just does everything better than Letang. Subban is also more of a game-changer than Letang. Subban makes things happen.

My main issue with Subban is that I've lost respect for him due to his terrible dramatics in the playoffs this year. He REALLLLY over did it.

That being said, I still take Subban over Letang without hesitation.


At present, its hard to argue any of this. Subban is just better at everything right now. MT has really helped him harness his game. I don't like the dramatics either, but he is still a kid and I think he will grow out of most of that.

Letang really regressed under Bylsma and Reirden, which is why trading him now would be insane. The rumours are probably absurd, but I wouldn't doubt for a second that Therrien believes that he can fix Letang. And he would. Hopefully Johnston is able to reign Letang in and get him headed back in the right direction.
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