Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:44 pm

Owchar76 wrote:Who am I kidding, Sprong seems to be going the way of Pouliot.

Is heard quietly sobbing :cry:
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:04 am

Owchar76 wrote:
Normally I would agree regarding Sprong, but, up until last game, he hit a very cold streak for about 5 games. There is still also a concern that half of his goals to date are on the PP, which, he is not going to get 1st unit PP time here. Give Sprong until the end of the month, maybe even mid-January, to see if he picks his game back up and can put more points on the board at even strength.

I'd honestly take all 3 of our 4th liners out of the lineup right now, and go with DiPauli-Simon-Archibald, and see how they do. I don't think Archibald plays LW (only RW), which hurts his ability to get in the lineup more....otherwise I think he would have gotten in a few games when Kuhnhackl was struggling.


Sprong still has more offensive talent in his little toe than Reaves, McKegg, Rowney, etc. We're okay with those guys not putting up 5 v 5 points, so what's the difference or harm? These guys aren't doing it 5 v 5, maybe someone threatening to take their place helps spark their play? Maybe showing confidence in Sprong helps his play? Who am I kidding, Sprong seems to be going the way of Pouliot.

The insinuation being what? That the Pens are mishandling Sprong? Daniel may have his own issues that are complicating his development. That is why he slipped down to us in the draft, after all.
I'm no player development expert, but if the Pens feel Sprong will more likely develop into an NHL player with more reps in the AHL, I'm not sure I can fault that approach. He'll get his chance, I'd like it to stick when it happens and if turning his game longer at the AHL level helps that to happen, I can be patient.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:48 am

Great58 wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:
Normally I would agree regarding Sprong, but, up until last game, he hit a very cold streak for about 5 games. There is still also a concern that half of his goals to date are on the PP, which, he is not going to get 1st unit PP time here. Give Sprong until the end of the month, maybe even mid-January, to see if he picks his game back up and can put more points on the board at even strength.

I'd honestly take all 3 of our 4th liners out of the lineup right now, and go with DiPauli-Simon-Archibald, and see how they do. I don't think Archibald plays LW (only RW), which hurts his ability to get in the lineup more....otherwise I think he would have gotten in a few games when Kuhnhackl was struggling.


Sprong still has more offensive talent in his little toe than Reaves, McKegg, Rowney, etc. We're okay with those guys not putting up 5 v 5 points, so what's the difference or harm? These guys aren't doing it 5 v 5, maybe someone threatening to take their place helps spark their play? Maybe showing confidence in Sprong helps his play? Who am I kidding, Sprong seems to be going the way of Pouliot.

The insinuation being what? That the Pens are mishandling Sprong? Daniel may have his own issues that are complicating his development. That is why he slipped down to us in the draft, after all.
I'm no player development expert, but if the Pens feel Sprong will more likely develop into an NHL player with more reps in the AHL, I'm not sure I can fault that approach. He'll get his chance, I'd like it to stick when it happens and if turning his game longer at the AHL level helps that to happen, I can be patient.

The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:51 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Owchar76 wrote:
Normally I would agree regarding Sprong, but, up until last game, he hit a very cold streak for about 5 games. There is still also a concern that half of his goals to date are on the PP, which, he is not going to get 1st unit PP time here. Give Sprong until the end of the month, maybe even mid-January, to see if he picks his game back up and can put more points on the board at even strength.

I'd honestly take all 3 of our 4th liners out of the lineup right now, and go with DiPauli-Simon-Archibald, and see how they do. I don't think Archibald plays LW (only RW), which hurts his ability to get in the lineup more....otherwise I think he would have gotten in a few games when Kuhnhackl was struggling.


Sprong still has more offensive talent in his little toe than Reaves, McKegg, Rowney, etc. We're okay with those guys not putting up 5 v 5 points, so what's the difference or harm? These guys aren't doing it 5 v 5, maybe someone threatening to take their place helps spark their play? Maybe showing confidence in Sprong helps his play? Who am I kidding, Sprong seems to be going the way of Pouliot.

The insinuation being what? That the Pens are mishandling Sprong? Daniel may have his own issues that are complicating his development. That is why he slipped down to us in the draft, after all.
I'm no player development expert, but if the Pens feel Sprong will more likely develop into an NHL player with more reps in the AHL, I'm not sure I can fault that approach. He'll get his chance, I'd like it to stick when it happens and if turning his game longer at the AHL level helps that to happen, I can be patient.

The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.

On the bright side, we can look at cases like Rust, Sheary and Guentzel coming up after extended stays in minors.

On the not so bright side, there's Sundqvist.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am

dark_forces wrote:Anyone get the lowdown from the latest TIOPS article?

Says Penguins are in the hunt for a defenseman. Right now, for a depth defenseman, but says if Letang continues to struggle, they could be looking for more of a top 4 guy instead of a bottom pairing depth guy. Says if Vegas were to become sellers, Penguins would have strong interest in Luca Sbisa. Also mentioned (with no direct ties/interest by Penguins) that Mike Green and Zdeno Chara are names that may be available at the deadline.

On Hornqvist, says Newport Sports (agent firm) are notorious for trying to sway their clients to hit free agency, and are doing the same with Hornqvist. Supposedly had talks with Penguins in September that didn't really go anywhere. Penguins were prepared to offer 3 years at 5.5M per year, but Hornqvist agents are locked in on a 5 year term. The rest was talking about internal pressure to sign Hornqvist, and would Rutherford bend on both negotiating in-season as well as going beyond 3 years. Then said high end options to replace Hornqvist if a deal were not reached would be Evander Kane or James van Riemsdyk, and Rick Nash as a possible lower end option that will likely be much cheaper than his current deal.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:07 pm

I am a strong proponent of Hornqvist, but $5.5M/5 is a a lot to take someone to 36 years old. Also need to consider the potential logjam at RW, although I do not put a lot of stock in potential so I would only use that as a last ditch tie breaker kind of thing.

Name LW FAs this sunner:

Evander Kane, 26yo ($5.25 cap / $6.0 sal) (25g 40pt recent history) - I was for getting him from Winnipeg, then was against getting him as he kept acting up in Buffalo... but a physical 30 goal scoring LW would be nice. Naturally he is having a career year in his contract year. His off ice issues and his apparently complete inability to create offense (assists vs goals) are drags. $6M should do it (see Lucic). He is having a good year this year which would push his price up, but he has been only about a 0.57 ppg guy over the last two years. So might cost a little more than Hornqvist... but is LW, what would happen to his numbers skating with Crosby or Malkin, and his physical presence skating with Crosby or Malkin would be very nice as well. IF HE CAN KEEP HIS OFF ICE ISSUES TO A MINIMUM.

James Neal, 30yo ($5.0 cap / $5.0 sal) (25g 45pt recent history) - Offense tanked after leaving Pittsburgh. Maybe his off ice issues have self-resolved... If so I could see him coming back on a short deal to try to re-establish his offensive numbers for a bigger long-term contract somewhere. Still takes idiotic penalties though. 2 years, $3.5M/$4M ballpark. 1 at $3.5 maybe. Get 35 goals, 70 points and then cash in somewhere.

James van Riemsdyk, 28yo ($4.25 cap / $5.0 sal) (30g 60pt recent history) - Best offensive upside, but also highest potential payday. Could he be the next guy that signs a "what the...." level contract? He would certainly be my #1 target, but might price WAY out of the Pens reach.

JVR is the top guy there. If Neal goes for a bridge contract to try to get a better long term deal then I would take a flyer on him. But it would be really nice to see Kane skating on Crosby's wing and taking runs at guys that take runs at Crosby. But the off ice stuff... ugh...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:08 pm

Chara.

Lol.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Skatingpen on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 pm

wondermoose wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:
wondermoose wrote:Hallelujah, McKegg is on waivers.

That mean Archi is back up from conditioning or a move is forthcoming?


Actually, I think it bodes well for Schultz. Day-to-day rather than IR so they just need the roster spot for a defenseman for a game or two. But who knows. Could just be that they know McKegg has run his course here.



More than week to week, per Sullivan.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Great, so now we are down to Maatta, and Cole as our 2 best defenders. And one of them has been a healthy scratch.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:31 pm

FLPensFan wrote:The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.

Do you think the Pens think that they rushed Pouliot when he was up for 34 games in '15? That his lack of development after that was related to a difficulty of accepting his AHL assignment after getting his first cup of coffee with the big club? I seem to remember that as his best hockey with us, at least in flashes. Too early to tell what his time in Vancouver will bring, but he's still a bit of a turnover machine (although better than Letang!).
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby dark_forces on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:38 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
dark_forces wrote:Anyone get the lowdown from the latest TIOPS article?

Says Penguins are in the hunt for a defenseman. Right now, for a depth defenseman, but says if Letang continues to struggle, they could be looking for more of a top 4 guy instead of a bottom pairing depth guy. Says if Vegas were to become sellers, Penguins would have strong interest in Luca Sbisa. Also mentioned (with no direct ties/interest by Penguins) that Mike Green and Zdeno Chara are names that may be available at the deadline.

On Hornqvist, says Newport Sports (agent firm) are notorious for trying to sway their clients to hit free agency, and are doing the same with Hornqvist. Supposedly had talks with Penguins in September that didn't really go anywhere. Penguins were prepared to offer 3 years at 5.5M per year, but Hornqvist agents are locked in on a 5 year term. The rest was talking about internal pressure to sign Hornqvist, and would Rutherford bend on both negotiating in-season as well as going beyond 3 years. Then said high end options to replace Hornqvist if a deal were not reached would be Evander Kane or James van Riemsdyk, and Rick Nash as a possible lower end option that will likely be much cheaper than his current deal.


I think they end up signing Hornqvist to a 4 year deal. He's such a presence, an important cog on the team and he's built to succeed in the playoffs. I see Cole going as an UFA after the season ends and I can easily see us re-acquiring Lovejoy at the deadline a RH shot on the bottom pair.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Crashguy66 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:56 pm

What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 pm

Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.

Do you think the Pens think that they rushed Pouliot when he was up for 34 games in '15? That his lack of development after that was related to a difficulty of accepting his AHL assignment after getting his first cup of coffee with the big club? I seem to remember that as his best hockey with us, at least in flashes. Too early to tell what his time in Vancouver will bring, but he's still a bit of a turnover machine (although better than Letang!).

Too me, rushed isn't the right word for Pouilot. I think overall mismanaged is better. And I agree, I didn't see a lot wrong with his 30 plus games in 2015 and thought that was his best hockey. So, I think they could have given him more opportunity to stick rather than repeatedly pulling him back out of the lineup or sending down to WBS to "work on his defense." Although I must admit, I often get confused between who the Penguins jerked around more, Pouilot or Despres. To me, Despres would have been awesome to keep, and been a good 2nd pairing guy. He's essentially a little more physical and offensive minded Ian Cole, in my book. Might not be as good defensively or of the same warrior attitude, but was pretty sound player.

You look at Shero's track record after he decided to go the "offensive defensemen" route. That idea seemed to come after he was able to get Kunitz and Tangradi for Whitney, followed by Neal for Goligoski......but he missed on every pick after that. Morrow, Pouilot, Despres, Harrington were all shipped out for peanuts. Cole, Schultz, Hunwick and Dumoulin were all external acquisitions, and it even took Dumoulin a year or two to be given the time....basically thrust into the lineup in the playoffs due to injury. Maatta is really the only good defensive hit the Penguins have had in quite some time.....too long.

Back to Pouliot, he seems to be playing quite well. I have a guy I talk hockey with regularly on Twitter that is from Vancouver and a big Canucks fan. He seems to think we got fleeced at this point, that is how well they perceive his play with Vancouver right now.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Crashguy66 wrote:What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.

Lovejoy has been a healthy scratch 11 times this season. He has played the majority of his time at even strength with Will Butcher, and their numbers have been pretty positive together. With defense partners other than Butcher, Lovejoy's CF% and GF% numbers drop considerably.

So, he doesn't seem to be playing bad, depending on who he is playing with.....but NJ isn't playing him every game. He'd likely be available, unless NJ wants to keep him around for playoff depth.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:04 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Crashguy66 wrote:What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.

Lovejoy has been a healthy scratch 11 times this season. He has played the majority of his time at even strength with Will Butcher, and their numbers have been pretty positive together. With defense partners other than Butcher, Lovejoy's CF% and GF% numbers drop considerably.

So, he doesn't seem to be playing bad, depending on who he is playing with.....but NJ isn't playing him every game. He'd likely be available, unless NJ wants to keep him around for playoff depth.


He has 1 more year at $2.7M. Hard pass.

Hard

Pass
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:15 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Crashguy66 wrote:What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.

Lovejoy has been a healthy scratch 11 times this season. He has played the majority of his time at even strength with Will Butcher, and their numbers have been pretty positive together. With defense partners other than Butcher, Lovejoy's CF% and GF% numbers drop considerably.

So, he doesn't seem to be playing bad, depending on who he is playing with.....but NJ isn't playing him every game. He'd likely be available, unless NJ wants to keep him around for playoff depth.


He has 1 more year at $2.7M. Hard pass.

Hard

Pass



Wouldn't it be Easy Pass? I would think a hard pass would be something you had to think about. Like, wow that is a hard one... but I have to pass. Vrs: Wow, that is so bad that it is an easy pass for me.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:29 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Crashguy66 wrote:What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.

Lovejoy has been a healthy scratch 11 times this season. He has played the majority of his time at even strength with Will Butcher, and their numbers have been pretty positive together. With defense partners other than Butcher, Lovejoy's CF% and GF% numbers drop considerably.

So, he doesn't seem to be playing bad, depending on who he is playing with.....but NJ isn't playing him every game. He'd likely be available, unless NJ wants to keep him around for playoff depth.


He has 1 more year at $2.7M. Hard pass.

Hard

Pass



Wouldn't it be Easy Pass? I would think a hard pass would be something you had to think about. Like, wow that is a hard one... but I have to pass. Vrs: Wow, that is so bad that it is an easy pass for me.


No, he won't need an EZPass as he will not be driving the Turnpike to Pittsburgh...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BONVIE on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:15 pm

Ben is the first active player to donate his brain to science.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/2170 ... e-research
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Humperdink on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:16 pm

Jim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Crashguy66 wrote:What is Lovejoy's status with NJ? Is he playing important minutes regularly? If so why would they trade him when, as of now, they're in contention. I know things can change over the next 2 months but right now I believe they're one of the best road teams in the league.

Lovejoy has been a healthy scratch 11 times this season. He has played the majority of his time at even strength with Will Butcher, and their numbers have been pretty positive together. With defense partners other than Butcher, Lovejoy's CF% and GF% numbers drop considerably.

So, he doesn't seem to be playing bad, depending on who he is playing with.....but NJ isn't playing him every game. He'd likely be available, unless NJ wants to keep him around for playoff depth.


He has 1 more year at $2.7M. Hard pass.

Hard

Pass



Wouldn't it be Easy Pass? I would think a hard pass would be something you had to think about. Like, wow that is a hard one... but I have to pass. Vrs: Wow, that is so bad that it is an easy pass for me.


No, he won't need an EZPass as he will not be driving the Turnpike to Pittsburgh...


Lovejoy was last seen skating with Rob Scuderi. Apparently following in Scuderi's skate tracks.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:19 pm

I would consider...

Lovejoy (w/50% retained) and Marcus Johansson (w/$1.9M retained) for Hagelin and anyone in WBS not named Sprong.

... but the is absolutely no reason for Shero to do that.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:34 pm

BONVIE wrote:Ben is the first active player to donate his brain to science.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/2170 ... e-research


Letang should donate his now, he's obviously not using it.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:17 pm

I asked Mackey today in his chat about 3C names or target types. I agree on Trocheck, but I think Bjugstad or Haula could likely be had.....although, I still think there are some other young 3C types I would target ahead of those two.


RandomHockeyGuy: Any new names floating around as possible 3C targets? Think Rutherford looks more at a rental or older vet like a Bozak? I'd like to see more of a Sam Reinhart, Devin Shore, Bjugstad type....younger guy that maybe hasn't developed as much as original team hoped. Hate to have to do this whole 3C search again in a year or two.

Jason Mackey: You're warm. They want a younger guy under club control for a little. The longer we go with this, the less I think Bozak is an option. Have also heard the Vegas guys, so maybe Erik Haula? Bjugstad would be terrific. Vince Trocheck, too. But I have a tough time seeing Florida trade either one.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:23 pm

Also, saw this later in the chat.

Lukas: Think the Penguins have interest in Sam Bennett?
Jason Mackey: Bennett or Reinhart? Have my doubts on Bennett. Have heard rumblings that Buffalo sniffed around Cole, and Reinhart would make sense.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Skatingpen on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:55 pm

Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:32 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota

His numbers aren't that good though. He's on pace to be well under the numbers he put up here. He's a minus 9, 1 goal and 5 assists, and getting about 2-3 less minutes a game than he did with Pittsburgh. Minnesota just brought up Joel Ericksson Ek, who may start stealing Cullen's minutes. Rutherford already took a chance on Niemi and lost, and, depending on how some feel, did the same with Reaves and Hunwick.

Find a legit 3C, and slide Sheahan down to 4C. I wouldn't take a chance on Cullen. It is possible that some of it is usage, but it's also possible the 40 plus year old player is finally starting to hit a wall.
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