Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:03 pm

Hornqvist on LW today with Geno and Kessel. Simon 1st line RW with Sid and Guentzel. Archibald in at LW, Kuhhackl/Reaves at RW, and Carl Hagelin stayed in the locker room applying copious amounts of hair products to his head. :face:

To my knowledge, Simon has been a C/LW. Not sure he has any time spent on the RW.
To my knowledge, Archibald has been purely a RW in his career. This may be his first real stint on the LW.
Factual evidence shows that Hornqvist is in fact a RW, who has in fact looked like poo trying to play the LW.

Line blender doesn't seem the correct course of action to take, Sully. :face: :face:
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:10 pm

Mackey article just posted says he chatted with Rutherford today, and Rutherford is considering a MAJOR TRADE to shake up the team. He was none to pleased about the 2-3-0 home stand.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/12/13/jim-rutherford-penguins-trade-rumors-nhl-playoff-standings/stories/201712130195

Falls in line to with what I have been saying. They have 8 games remaining this month. I think they need to either go 6-2, or at least 5-3 -ish, and start showing more effort game in and game out. Otherwise, I think Rutherford is going to pull the trigger. I'm betting on the latter.

The 3 big money quotes from Rutherford:

---“We have to understand that every team we play is playing us like it’s a playoff game,” Rutherford said. “They want to beat the Stanley Cup champions. We can’t play two periods and think we’re going to win games."

---“We’re going to play three games here on the road where we’re going to have teams that will outwork us. We have to be prepared for it. The homestand needed to be better. The good news is we’re not far out of the top of the division. The bad news is we’re right around not being in the playoffs.

---“I believe we have a team that could’ve done better at this point, but I understand the big factor, in that we’re a team that hasn’t had much of a break in the last two offseasons. I’ve always felt it would take us to the halfway point to really get going. We’re almost there. But we are at a point where we’re slipping in the wrong direction. We have to watch that real close.”
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby dark_forces on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:26 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Mackey article just posted says he chatted with Rutherford today, and Rutherford is considering a MAJOR TRADE to shake up the team. He was none to pleased about the 2-3-0 home stand.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/12/13/jim-rutherford-penguins-trade-rumors-nhl-playoff-standings/stories/201712130195

Falls in line to with what I have been saying. They have 8 games remaining this month. I think they need to either go 6-2, or at least 5-3 -ish, and start showing more effort game in and game out. Otherwise, I think Rutherford is going to pull the trigger. I'm betting on the latter.

The 3 big money quotes from Rutherford:

---“We have to understand that every team we play is playing us like it’s a playoff game,” Rutherford said. “They want to beat the Stanley Cup champions. We can’t play two periods and think we’re going to win games."

---“We’re going to play three games here on the road where we’re going to have teams that will outwork us. We have to be prepared for it. The homestand needed to be better. The good news is we’re not far out of the top of the division. The bad news is we’re right around not being in the playoffs.

---“I believe we have a team that could’ve done better at this point, but I understand the big factor, in that we’re a team that hasn’t had much of a break in the last two offseasons. I’ve always felt it would take us to the halfway point to really get going. We’re almost there. But we are at a point where we’re slipping in the wrong direction. We have to watch that real close.”


This begs the question: what are the major pieces we could dangle that would be needed for a blockbuster trade to happen? Would Jarry be involved? Maatta? Sheary? or could it go deeper than that? A Dumoulin perhaps? Or, do you think it would involve a lot of pieces like Hagelin, Cole, a 1st rounder, etc. The only current roster untouchables as I see them are: Crosby, Malkin, Murray and Letang, and maybe Guentzel.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Crashguy66 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:47 pm

Why is Letang untouchable? For every good thing he does he does 10 dumb things. Can't QB the PP effectively. Schultz is more valuable. Sully NEVER calls out players specifically. Nor should he. However the Ole '29er has no such qualms. I highly recommend listening to a Pens radio broadcast. Bourque is brutally honest and, as I've posted before, Josh, on road games, is exceptional with his play by play. Listening and watching has changed my opinion of 58.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Trading Letang would be a blockbuster trade. Teams would give up a lot for him. The penguins have proven they can win without him but there are teams who have been searching years for a guy like him as well. If the penguins are thinking about trading him it might be a good idea to wait and see what happens with Karlsson first.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby dark_forces on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:06 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Trading Letang would be a blockbuster trade. Teams would give up a lot for him. The penguins have proven they can win without him but there are teams who have been searching years for a guy like him as well. If the penguins are thinking about trading him it might be a good idea to wait and see what happens with Karlsson first.


I agree. Letang involved would constitute a blockbuster, but somehow I just don't see him going anywhere. Maybe I'm being naive, but I still think the management views him as a core player.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Crashguy66 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:24 pm

dark_forces wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Trading Letang would be a blockbuster trade. Teams would give up a lot for him. The penguins have proven they can win without him but there are teams who have been searching years for a guy like him as well. If the penguins are thinking about trading him it might be a good idea to wait and see what happens with Karlsson first.


I agree. Letang involved would constitute a blockbuster, but somehow I just don't see him going anywhere. Maybe I'm being naive, but I still think the management views him as a core player.

Yes. I'm sure they do. WHY is the big question. I don't purport to be a hockey expert, however the proof is in the pudding. 7.5 million cap hit. Won a cup without him. Gets a shot on net once every other game. I just don't get it. Someone help me understand.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 pm

Crashguy66 wrote:
dark_forces wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Trading Letang would be a blockbuster trade. Teams would give up a lot for him. The penguins have proven they can win without him but there are teams who have been searching years for a guy like him as well. If the penguins are thinking about trading him it might be a good idea to wait and see what happens with Karlsson first.


I agree. Letang involved would constitute a blockbuster, but somehow I just don't see him going anywhere. Maybe I'm being naive, but I still think the management views him as a core player.

Yes. I'm sure they do. WHY is the big question. I don't purport to be a hockey expert, however the proof is in the pudding. 7.5 million cap hit. Won a cup without him. Gets a shot on net once every other game. I just don't get it. Someone help me understand.

Because management is still high on him.

Because, yes, they won a Cup without him.....but that seems to be an anomaly versus the trend. Just like having a top goalie is usually required to get to the Finals, having a true #1 puck moving defenseman is typically required as well. Doughty, Chara, Keith/Seabrook, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer. While Chara, Keith, and Seabrook are a bit more defensive than offensive, they are/were still #1 defensemen at the time of the Cup. I'd say you have to go back to the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes to find the last team that won the Cup without a solid #1 defenseman. Their defense was Kaberle, Hedican, Commodore, Tverdosky, Wesley, Ward, and Babchuk. And if you look beyond 2006, you start seeing similar names repeating. True #1 defenseman is just about as important as a solid #1 goalie.

Because the Penguins don't have anybody on the roster or in the system to take over #1 defenseman duties. Schultz did it for a bit last year, but as much as I like Schultz, I don't think he can handle the minutes over the course of a season and playoffs. He'll start getting exposed. That's a big thing people over look, good or bad play, the amount of minutes the top guys play each game.

To replace Letang, you'd likely have to trade a Kessel, Malkin type to get a #1 defenseman back, then shop Letang to replace what you lost in Kessel/Malkin. Either way, just doesn't seem very plausible or possible.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:49 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Mackey article just posted says he chatted with Rutherford today, and Rutherford is considering a MAJOR TRADE to shake up the team. He was none to pleased about the 2-3-0 home stand.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/12/13/jim-rutherford-penguins-trade-rumors-nhl-playoff-standings/stories/201712130195

Falls in line to with what I have been saying. They have 8 games remaining this month. I think they need to either go 6-2, or at least 5-3 -ish, and start showing more effort game in and game out. Otherwise, I think Rutherford is going to pull the trigger. I'm betting on the latter.

The 3 big money quotes from Rutherford:

---“We have to understand that every team we play is playing us like it’s a playoff game,” Rutherford said. “They want to beat the Stanley Cup champions. We can’t play two periods and think we’re going to win games."

---“We’re going to play three games here on the road where we’re going to have teams that will outwork us. We have to be prepared for it. The homestand needed to be better. The good news is we’re not far out of the top of the division. The bad news is we’re right around not being in the playoffs.

---“I believe we have a team that could’ve done better at this point, but I understand the big factor, in that we’re a team that hasn’t had much of a break in the last two offseasons. I’ve always felt it would take us to the halfway point to really get going. We’re almost there. But we are at a point where we’re slipping in the wrong direction. We have to watch that real close.”

Two more quotes from Rutherford via Mackey, this time directly from Twitter:

Jason Mackey‏Verified account
@JMackeyPG
19m19 minutes ago
More
I asked Rutherford one way he could potentially shake things up. "Different reporters," the GM said, laughing. What a beauty. ... Jim joked a couple of weeks ago he'd trade us. GMJR sitting on his hands.


Jason Mackey‏Verified account
@JMackeyPG
19m19 minutes ago
More
On a serious note, what would GMJR target in a shakeup? "More depth at center, to a point where we can get more production. I’d like to see if we could get more balance/production out of our forward lines."
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Crashguy66 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:00 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Crashguy66 wrote:
dark_forces wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Trading Letang would be a blockbuster trade. Teams would give up a lot for him. The penguins have proven they can win without him but there are teams who have been searching years for a guy like him as well. If the penguins are thinking about trading him it might be a good idea to wait and see what happens with Karlsson first.


I agree. Letang involved would constitute a blockbuster, but somehow I just don't see him going anywhere. Maybe I'm being naive, but I still think the management views him as a core player.

Yes. I'm sure they do. WHY is the big question. I don't purport to be a hockey expert, however the proof is in the pudding. 7.5 million cap hit. Won a cup without him. Gets a shot on net once every other game. I just don't get it. Someone help me understand.

Because management is still high on him.

Because, yes, they won a Cup without him.....but that seems to be an anomaly versus the trend. Just like having a top goalie is usually required to get to the Finals, having a true #1 puck moving defenseman is typically required as well. Doughty, Chara, Keith/Seabrook, Letang, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer. While Chara, Keith, and Seabrook are a bit more defensive than offensive, they are/were still #1 defensemen at the time of the Cup. I'd say you have to go back to the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes to find the last team that won the Cup without a solid #1 defenseman. Their defense was Kaberle, Hedican, Commodore, Tverdosky, Wesley, Ward, and Babchuk. And if you look beyond 2006, you start seeing similar names repeating. True #1 defenseman is just about as important as a solid #1 goalie.

Because the Penguins don't have anybody on the roster or in the system to take over #1 defenseman duties. Schultz did it for a bit last year, but as much as I like Schultz, I don't think he can handle the minutes over the course of a season and playoffs. He'll start getting exposed. That's a big thing people over look, good or bad play, the amount of minutes the top guys play each game.

To replace Letang, you'd likely have to trade a Kessel, Malkin type to get a #1 defenseman back, then shop Letang to replace what you lost in Kessel/Malkin. Either way, just doesn't seem very plausible or possible.

I keep hearing "Letang is a puck moving defenseman who eats up minutes". What good is a puck moving defenseman who moves the puck to the opposing team more than not and get get a shot on net. Like I said, I'm no expert and I much enjoy reading your insight FlPensFan (glad you stayed on board). I'll stop now. I've had one to many Captains. My original point was I don't believe he should be "untouchable".
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FallenHero96 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:03 pm

Just saw cole and maatta walking through the cosmo on the strip!

And now sheary, dumo,guentzel shooting craps at the cosmo haha
Last edited by FallenHero96 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Do you have to find a long term replacement for Letang this year? I'd wait til guys like Karlsson and Ekman-Larsson Are UFAs.

The real question is what would you ask in return for Letang?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:18 pm

Maybe this is a dumb idea but if scoring is a problem and we need a shakeup why not give Sprong a try?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby jwest21 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:12 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Maybe this is a dumb idea but if scoring is a problem and we need a shakeup why not give Sprong a try?

2 goals tonight, 1G 1A in the game before that...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby KG on Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:16 am

All of this Rutherford chatter looking for a quality center. Makes me think a Staal reunion might be in the making.

That would be sizable and give the team a shot in the arm. Not mark letestu....
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pitts on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:01 am

dark_forces wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Mackey article just posted says he chatted with Rutherford today, and Rutherford is considering a MAJOR TRADE to shake up the team. He was none to pleased about the 2-3-0 home stand.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2017/12/13/jim-rutherford-penguins-trade-rumors-nhl-playoff-standings/stories/201712130195

Falls in line to with what I have been saying. They have 8 games remaining this month. I think they need to either go 6-2, or at least 5-3 -ish, and start showing more effort game in and game out. Otherwise, I think Rutherford is going to pull the trigger. I'm betting on the latter.

The 3 big money quotes from Rutherford:

---“We have to understand that every team we play is playing us like it’s a playoff game,” Rutherford said. “They want to beat the Stanley Cup champions. We can’t play two periods and think we’re going to win games."

---“We’re going to play three games here on the road where we’re going to have teams that will outwork us. We have to be prepared for it. The homestand needed to be better. The good news is we’re not far out of the top of the division. The bad news is we’re right around not being in the playoffs.

---“I believe we have a team that could’ve done better at this point, but I understand the big factor, in that we’re a team that hasn’t had much of a break in the last two offseasons. I’ve always felt it would take us to the halfway point to really get going. We’re almost there. But we are at a point where we’re slipping in the wrong direction. We have to watch that real close.”


This begs the question: what are the major pieces we could dangle that would be needed for a blockbuster trade to happen? Would Jarry be involved? Maatta? Sheary? or could it go deeper than that? A Dumoulin perhaps? Or, do you think it would involve a lot of pieces like Hagelin, Cole, a 1st rounder, etc. The only current roster untouchables as I see them are: Crosby, Malkin, Murray and Letang, and maybe Guentzel.

From Josh Yohe's version of this article (dkonpghsports):
There are certain players who are untouchable in the organization's eyes, chief among them Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Phil Kessel, Kris Letang and Matt Murray.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pitts on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:08 am

KG wrote:All of this Rutherford chatter looking for a quality center. Makes me think a Staal reunion might be in the making.

That would be sizable and give the team a shot in the arm. Not mark letestu....

Jordan Staal was hanging out with some of the team in Vegas yesterday .... :)
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:15 am

Pitts wrote:
KG wrote:All of this Rutherford chatter looking for a quality center. Makes me think a Staal reunion might be in the making.

That would be sizable and give the team a shot in the arm. Not mark letestu....

Jordan Staal was hanging out with some of the team in Vegas yesterday .... :)

Well, if you believe TIOPS (and this actually made sense and is believable), if Chuck Greenberg would have bought the team, Staal might have been put on the block. With Dundon though, sounds like he wants to add salary.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:30 am

jwest21 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Maybe this is a dumb idea but if scoring is a problem and we need a shakeup why not give Sprong a try?

2 goals tonight, 1G 1A in the game before that...

Serious question to both of you......how closely have you followed Sprong and his numbers this year?

He started off on fire, and was tied for the AHL points lead to start the season.
He then went ice cold, and was held off the scoresheet for 5 or 6 games straight, all while racking up some negative defensive reviews and being a healthy scratch.
He also had 5 of his 9 goals on the PP.
He has started to put points on the board again the past few games, and notably, at even strength. His defensive play has still been suspect.

I think the Penguins usage of Sprong at this point has been correct. He's a RW. Kessel and Hornqvist are both RW, and have both been playing well this season. Whether you want Reaves in the lineup or not, 4th line RW is not the spot for Sprong. Normally, I would say 3rd line RW would be the right spot, but, I don't think Sheahan is showing enough playmaking qualities....yet....to get much of Sprong out of that position.

Get a better 3C, one that has a bit more offensive abilities, and then maybe the time to test out Sprong will come. But, the first part of the season on the offensive side (the guy tied for AHL points lead), is what the Penguins should be seeing every night. Not the guy going cold for 5-6 game stretches and getting benched. If Sprong is as good as advertised, even if his defense is suspect, his offense should be dominating. He's almost back to a point per game pace. 14 goals, 7 on the PP. Only 7 assists. He is also a minus 1. Only 5 players on WBS are minus players, and only 3 of those minus players have played more than 10 games. Plus minus isn't a useful stat on its own, but when looking at it from a team perspective, it shows that he is one of the worst defensive players on a team with very few minus players as a whole.

I think Rutherford will make a major move before trying Sprong as the cog to get the offense going.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Daniel on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:35 am

FLPensFan wrote:
jwest21 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Maybe this is a dumb idea but if scoring is a problem and we need a shakeup why not give Sprong a try?

2 goals tonight, 1G 1A in the game before that...

Serious question to both of you......how closely have you followed Sprong and his numbers this year?

He started off on fire, and was tied for the AHL points lead to start the season.
He then went ice cold, and was held off the scoresheet for 5 or 6 games straight, all while racking up some negative defensive reviews and being a healthy scratch.
He also had 5 of his 9 goals on the PP.
He has started to put points on the board again the past few games, and notably, at even strength. His defensive play has still been suspect.

I think the Penguins usage of Sprong at this point has been correct. He's a RW. Kessel and Hornqvist are both RW, and have both been playing well this season. Whether you want Reaves in the lineup or not, 4th line RW is not the spot for Sprong. Normally, I would say 3rd line RW would be the right spot, but, I don't think Sheahan is showing enough playmaking qualities....yet....to get much of Sprong out of that position.

Get a better 3C, one that has a bit more offensive abilities, and then maybe the time to test out Sprong will come. But, the first part of the season on the offensive side (the guy tied for AHL points lead), is what the Penguins should be seeing every night. Not the guy going cold for 5-6 game stretches and getting benched. If Sprong is as good as advertised, even if his defense is suspect, his offense should be dominating. He's almost back to a point per game pace. 14 goals, 7 on the PP. Only 7 assists. He is also a minus 1. Only 5 players on WBS are minus players, and only 3 of those minus players have played more than 10 games. Plus minus isn't a useful stat on its own, but when looking at it from a team perspective, it shows that he is one of the worst defensive players on a team with very few minus players as a whole.

I think Rutherford will make a major move before trying Sprong as the cog to get the offense going.


What's the worse that can happen with Sprong next to Sheahan and Rust for a few games? The Penguins play listless hockey and lose games? They can do that just as easily while waiting for a trade.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby KBone on Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 am

Man, what I wouldn't give for a Letang + , Karlsson (and extended) swap.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Maestro on Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:32 am

Staal or failing that, Brassard is my guess.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby no name on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 am

trying to piece a Staal trade together is a tall order. We would need them to retain salary to get it done. Then on top of it we have to give them something in return that helps them. A guy who is good on the PK and a 5 on 5 producer is going to cost a lot. I think you would have to add a Sprong or a 1st rounder to get it done.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:53 am

The reason that I would love for them to bring up Sprong is so that when he doesn't do anything and gets sent back down, people will cry about how they mishandled Sprong by bringing him up. It'll be good times!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:06 am

no name wrote:trying to piece a Staal trade together is a tall order. We would need them to retain salary to get it done. Then on top of it we have to give them something in return that helps them. A guy who is good on the PK and a 5 on 5 producer is going to cost a lot. I think you would have to add a Sprong or a 1st rounder to get it done.

Letang for Staal and a D.... :twisted:
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