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Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:47 pm

IntangibleBeer wrote:
Great58 wrote:Neal has on-ice leadership abilities? Who knew!


Yeaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, NO.

Neal was reported as toxic in the dressing room several years ago. I don't want him back. Why?

I think Staal's time here has come and gone. He's too expensive.

There are still 6 weeks or so left till the trade deadline. Let's get some of the Baby Pens up here and see what / who works and where.

BTW, I like the idea of GMJR trading reporters. Do you think he can get a 3C for a dozen of them? :lol: :lol: :lol:


The deadline is 2/26, about 10 and a half weeks out.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:47 pm

I am fine with any trade or trades involving Letang and Hagelin.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Sams_Dog on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:41 pm

Great58 wrote:Neal has on-ice leadership abilities? Who knew!



No he doesn't. We did the James Neal thing. His 30 goals are not worth the undisciplined, bad-penalty-taking-in-the-offensive zone BS. We didn't win a Cup with him on the roster for a reason.

Same goes for Evander Kane. Not worth the baggage. No thanks.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:58 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I am fine with any trade or trades involving Letang and Hagelin.

We have half a dozen guys who are fast and can kill penalties for less than $1 million to easily replace Hags.

Letang plays a ton of minutes but his cap hit could be used to get two players to round out a really solid 6 defensemen. We were fine last year without him and I would love to move him for a good prospect and pending UFA and look to just replace his minutes next year.

Schultz has shown to be so much more important than Letang
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:14 pm

DelPen wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I am fine with any trade or trades involving Letang and Hagelin.

We have half a dozen guys who are fast and can kill penalties for less than $1 million to easily replace Hags.

Letang plays a ton of minutes but his cap hit could be used to get two players to round out a really solid 6 defensemen. We were fine last year without him and I would love to move him for a good prospect and pending UFA and look to just replace his minutes next year.

Schultz has shown to be so much more important than Letang


After last year, finding a balance on the blue line seems like a smart play. The way things are now, if Letang has a bad idea (which has been often), then they lose and they lose UGLY. If they could dial Letang's minutes back 5 or so minutes, who knows how that might go. If someone has an off night and they're playing 16-18 minutes then it's much easier to hide, and maybe that's how Schultz has been able to really dial into his role on the team.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:35 pm

DelPen wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I am fine with any trade or trades involving Letang and Hagelin.

We have half a dozen guys who are fast and can kill penalties for less than $1 million to easily replace Hags.

Letang plays a ton of minutes but his cap hit could be used to get two players to round out a really solid 6 defensemen. We were fine last year without him and I would love to move him for a good prospect and pending UFA and look to just replace his minutes next year.

Schultz has shown to be so much more important than Letang


Very well said.

Hagelin looked hungry when he got here, he was noticeable every game. You can count on one hand how many games he's been noticeable.

Letang just looks like he won't be the same player he was, like you said we can get two very good defensemen for what we are playing Letang and Hagelin.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Owchar76 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:41 pm

Sams_Dog wrote:
Great58 wrote:Neal has on-ice leadership abilities? Who knew!



No he doesn't. We did the James Neal thing. His 30 goals are not worth the undisciplined, bad-penalty-taking-in-the-offensive zone BS. We didn't win a Cup with him on the roster for a reason.

Same goes for Evander Kane. Not worth the baggage. No thanks.


Kane slept in and missed a practice in September of 2016. I don't recall anything bad coming out of Buffalo since then. Did I miss anything? I know I didn't miss the fact that he scored 28 goals last season and has 14 this year and 28 points in 31 games.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Maestro on Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:39 am

I know all about Neal's alleged issues while in Pit, none of which he had in Nash (who tried to get him back from LV) and he is an on-ice leader for LV. Look at his gwg this year. He and Perron have been the vet leaders out there for them. Simple truth.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pens4Life on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:22 am

We wont make playoffs this season playing like this.. we will be 9th or 10th! Just awful form..
I knew we will lose too much character and grit with Bonino, Cullen, Kunitz, Daley, MAF...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:23 am

Maestro wrote:I know all about Neal's alleged issues while in Pit, none of which he had in Nash (who tried to get him back from LV) and he is an on-ice leader for LV. Look at his gwg this year. He and Perron have been the vet leaders out there for them. Simple truth.


I do not recall seeing anything about Nashville trying to get him back.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby no name on Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:59 am

Jim wrote:
Maestro wrote:I know all about Neal's alleged issues while in Pit, none of which he had in Nash (who tried to get him back from LV) and he is an on-ice leader for LV. Look at his gwg this year. He and Perron have been the vet leaders out there for them. Simple truth.


I do not recall seeing anything about Nashville trying to get him back.


Best I recall was how reporters talked that LV was going to trade Neal for a 1st to anyone who was willing to give up a first rounder before the season started. When no one gave a first rounder, rumor had it he would go to the highest bidder at the trade deadline. But with that team close to a playoff spot I don't know if he will be dealt. This is what I "heard" and people who knew how LV was planning on building through the draft. No one expected this team to be where it is.

Wonder if FLA. is questioning that they released Gallant??
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Defence21 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:26 am

DelPen wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:I am fine with any trade or trades involving Letang and Hagelin.

We have half a dozen guys who are fast and can kill penalties for less than $1 million to easily replace Hags.

Letang plays a ton of minutes but his cap hit could be used to get two players to round out a really solid 6 defensemen. We were fine last year without him and I would love to move him for a good prospect and pending UFA and look to just replace his minutes next year.

Schultz has shown to be so much more important than Letang

Yohe was on Madden last night, and he said that obviously Crosby, Malkin, and Murray are not getting dealt, and while he said he didn't see a Letang deal as likely, he said he doesn't think Letang is as cemented in the "core" as he once was. That's the first I've heard that.

He suggested that Hagelin, Sheary, and Rust seemed most likely to be involved in any kind of shakeup and that Guentzel, while a hard get, would be made available if the deal brought back a star with term.

In my opinion, Rutherford should first look to pull off one of his Peron for Hagelin/Scuderi for Daly deals. It might be difficult to shed Hagelin's salary without taking on another, but if the Penguins can get a change of scenery kind of guy, they might be able to catch lightning in a bottle. And, if not, they're no worse off than they are now.

Then, they should look to create center depth for the purposes of spreading the scoring over three lines. While they don't need a superstar, a 50-60 point player should be what they seek, and Sheary would be my trade bait. Sheary is proving to be a solid NHL player who will score 50 points per year, but he's also a scoring winger on a team that has quite a few. He doesn't kill penalties and doesn't get top PP time. Rust is more of a third line type who can bump up and down the lineup. He brings an edge and speed and he kills penalties. Plus, he elevates his game in the playoffs, when Sheary has fallen off a bit. Guentzel has proven to be a big time player who could turn into a 70 point guy down the line. Of the three Sheary just makes the most sense.

I'd also strongly consider dealing Letang for apackaging featuring a top-pairing, defense-oriented defenseman to be Schultz's partner. Schultz showed last year he can run the power play better than Letang and that he's capable of being a top pairing guy. But I would prefer not to trust him as being the number one, and instead have two guys who are number twos.

Lastly, I'd seek a bottom pairing upgrade and use depth/picks/prospects to make it happen.

With new center depth, we would have Crosby, Malkin, XX, Sheahan
With new defense depth, we would have Schultz and XX, Dumoulin and Maatta, Cole and XX
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Defence21 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:30 am

Maestro wrote:I know all about Neal's alleged issues while in Pit, none of which he had in Nash (who tried to get him back from LV) and he is an on-ice leader for LV. Look at his gwg this year. He and Perron have been the vet leaders out there for them. Simple truth.

That's all well and good, but he was here and while his offense was fantastic here, he proved other aspects of his game and personality did not work. He plays the type of game this team was unsuccessful with and got away from. Why go back to the same well -- one that proved to have tainted water -- when there are plenty of other sources?

Plus, this team has wingers...an abundance of them. They first need to create center depth. Sheahan has proven to be a very pleasant surprise. Moving him to the fourth line by means of adding a high-end third liner would be a great first start in recreating the four-line scoring depth this team had the last two years.
Last edited by Defence21 on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:16 pm

Forget personality, bringing back Neal is just a move that Rutherford would never make on principle. He got rid of him for a very pointed reason. Besides, what Neal brings ain't what Pittsburgh needs.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Maestro on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:34 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Maestro wrote:I know all about Neal's alleged issues while in Pit, none of which he had in Nash (who tried to get him back from LV) and he is an on-ice leader for LV. Look at his gwg this year. He and Perron have been the vet leaders out there for them. Simple truth.

That's all well and good, but he was here and while his offense was fantastic here, he proved other aspects of his game and personality did not work. He plays the type of game this team was unsuccessful with and got away from. Why go back to the same well -- one that proved to have tainted water -- when there are plenty of other sources?

Plus, this team has wingers...an abundance of them. They first need to create center depth. Sheahan has proven to be a very pleasant surprise. Moving him to the fourth line by means of adding a high-end third liner would be a great first start in recreating the four-line scoring depth this team had the last two years.


I agree with all of that. I didn't propose trading for Neal. I don't see it happening.
But, no suspensions since his time at Pit, I think no diving penalties since then, and Peter Laviolette was quoted calling Neal 1 of the team's leaders.
Neal himself discussed changing his mindset after the trade.
People are capable of change.
That was my only point.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 pm

He showed how much he changed with that 2 handed head slash that could have been called by a blind tinker's monkey last night.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby dark_forces on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:56 pm

BurghThing wrote:He showed how much he changed with that 2 handed head slash that could have been called by a blind tinker's monkey last night.


"blind tinker's monkey" may be the favorite thing I've ever seen written in these forums.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BONVIE on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:59 pm

I noticed this at Spectors Hockey today and it made me go hmmmmmmm but again it's only Eklund!

(Currently Eklund is claiming there is an Ian Cole for Evander Kane swap in the works. You can all keep your Bozak because Eklund is rarely wrong.)
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:34 am

BONVIE wrote:I noticed this at Spectors Hockey today and it made me go hmmmmmmm but again it's only Eklund!

(Currently Eklund is claiming there is an Ian Cole for Evander Kane swap in the works. You can all keep your Bozak because Eklund is rarely wrong.)

We'd be giving up a heck of a lot more than just Cole, even if they agreed to an extension. Would likely have to include a 1st and/or higher end prospect, because UFA or not, Kane will be one of the top targets out there, and someone will pay a big price for him.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:39 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
BONVIE wrote:I noticed this at Spectors Hockey today and it made me go hmmmmmmm but again it's only Eklund!

(Currently Eklund is claiming there is an Ian Cole for Evander Kane swap in the works. You can all keep your Bozak because Eklund is rarely wrong.)

We'd be giving up a heck of a lot more than just Cole, even if they agreed to an extension. Would likely have to include a 1st and/or higher end prospect, because UFA or not, Kane will be one of the top targets out there, and someone will pay a big price for him.


Skipping record warning: nearly any trade that involves salary coming back will basically require, require, Hagelin going the other way. Possibly Sheary instead, but 100% one of those two and I go 80/20 it would be Hagelin.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:30 pm

Just checked the stats.

This guy was a starter in 8 consecutive games. The team received 8 points (1.00 pt per game). When he started, the Pens scored 33 times (3.3 goals per game) and got 26 against (2.5 goals per game). Talk about .500 hockey. Of these, six games were in Pittsburgh. Currently he's riding a three-game loss streak. Horrible.. :thumbdown:

It's clear this guy is, for the coming game at least (!), good for no more than nacho duty as a healthy scratch! Rumours of sending him down to Wilkes-Barre and putting him on waivers may commence!! :lol: (A trade will net less than a used packet of nachos)

I'm talking about myself and my GDT starts. Just has to be me at this stage.. I'm sure DelPen will start us off the right way instead!

Let's go Pens! :fist:
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby pekkasteele on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:20 am

I think we need to look at trading a Rust for rust, Sheary for Sheary thing to. They are not unique, there are a lot of Rust's out there, but, not that many that have won back 2 back, so they might have a similar contract and skill set, but, have a hunger for their first SC-ring. Trade playoff experience for hunger.

Now, I don't know who has seen uninspired since I have not seen many games this year, but might be some at D to that should be traded, mot due to bad performance, but, just to get som hunger in there ... Dumo? Cole?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:27 am

Rust and Sheary are not the problem in terms of drive or effort.

Letang is the single biggest problem we have due to constant errors and his huge cap hit. Hagelin is 2nd due to a very limited skill set and also a large cap hit relative to his role on the team.

Moving those two players for anything would help a lot not just now but next year and in the future.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:01 am

I am down with trading Letang if the return is right. However, here is my biggest concern.

IF we trade Letang and the Penguins miss the playoffs or make the playoffs and fizzle out early who will you all start looking to trade next??? I know the answer and I don't want that day to come. You all will look next to Geno. If keeping Letang means that he remains the 'next-to-go-guy' instead of Geno, then I am all for keeping Letang forever.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:05 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:I am down with trading Letang if the return is right. However, here is my biggest concern.

IF we trade Letang and the Penguins miss the playoffs or make the playoffs and fizzle out early who will you all start looking to trade next??? I know the answer and I don't want that day to come. You all will look next to Geno. If keeping Letang means that he remains the 'next-to-go-guy' instead of Geno, then I am all for keeping Letang forever.


I think Letang and Sheary are the two most overvalued players we have right now.
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