Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Jim on Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:44 pm

What's an automatic call? What is not calling in automatic call? And how does not calling an automatic call involve Reeves in any way?
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Metalmike1 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:31 am

Most people on this board hated it when JR picked up Reeves. It’s too bad but I admit I was looking forward to seeing him throw some massive hits in the playoffs but there was no way he would crack the lineup.
The pens speed will frustrate teams once again in the post season so in order to manhandle Crosby etc.. they first have to catch up to him if teams aren’t already chasing the puck.
You can’t score if you don’t have puck possession so Reeves just didn’t fit in at this point.
Maybe JR has a gritty damn with speed in mind to pick up Monday on deadline day. We shall see..

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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:41 am

Reaves would have been fine if he his centers weren't Greg McKegg and Carter Rowney for most of the season. He was always going to be a drag on whatever line, but he's a winger. There's only so much he can do to hurt the line. He won't pick them up, but he wouldn't hurt them too terribly much. And he was playing really, really well with Sheahan. I wouldn't be surprised if Rutherford took another swing for him in the offseason, now that the centers are sorted out. He just never really had a chance to succeed and that bums me out about him.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Maestro on Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:51 pm

I would say too many men and high sticking are automatic calls (used to also include slashing if stick broke but I think that is no longer the case).
They certainly missed a too many men last night.
I don't think any of that has to do with Reaves.

Reaves may very well be missed, but he hardly saw the ice.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby State College Penguin on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:24 pm

itissteeltime wrote:We didn't need him when we won back to back. Didn't need to trade for him in the off season. Don't need him moving forward. Don't need an enforcer.



So, the trade was something non needed and JR gave away a nice pick. Point is exactly right.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Steve Dave on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:37 pm

When they acquired Reaves and #51 pick in exchange for Sundqvist (looks to be a bust) and #31 pick, the Pens didn’t have 6,7 255lb Oleksiak yet. Aston-Reese, 6,1 204lb, also seems to have adjusted well to the NHL as a gritty guy. I did see somewhere that someone said he can fight but I havn’t seen it for myself. It was also stated that VEG did want Reaves so he wasn’t just a cap dump. Sestito, 6,5 225lb, can be called up if needed toward the end of the season. So Reaves isn’t really needed and was used as an asset to acquire Brassard.
Last edited by Steve Dave on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby KG on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:50 pm

At least JR was smart enough to “right a wrong”

Although I was fully onboard with bringing in Reaves. I don’t think Sully ever gave him a real chance or utilized him properly.

JR was smart enough to identify the coach didn’t love the player and we utilized the asset to get Vegas to eat 40% of Brassards contract.

Many GM’s would let their ego’s get in the way or get into battles with the coach over roster issues. JR handled this well in my opinion.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Jim on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:07 pm

State College Penguin wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:We didn't need him when we won back to back. Didn't need to trade for him in the off season. Don't need him moving forward. Don't need an enforcer.



So, the trade was something non needed and JR gave away a nice pick. Point is exactly right.


When is it going to sink in with people that they were going to pick Lauzon at 31 and therefore lost nothing, NOTHING, in moving that pick. In both the long run and short run the trade ended up being Sundqvist for Reaves.

Let

It

Sink

In
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Daniel on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Jim wrote:
State College Penguin wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:We didn't need him when we won back to back. Didn't need to trade for him in the off season. Don't need him moving forward. Don't need an enforcer.



So, the trade was something non needed and JR gave away a nice pick. Point is exactly right.


When is it going to sink in with people that they were going to pick Lauzon at 31 and therefore lost nothing, NOTHING, in moving that pick. In both the long run and short run the trade ended up being Sundqvist for Reaves.

Let

It

Sink

In


Or Sundqvist for $2m in cap space and Brassard. Not sure if there is an entry level contract differences between the picks, like MLB/NFL. If their is, the Pens get a cheaper ELC for Lauzon.

I fail to see how that trade wasn't anything but a win for the Pens. I mean, I guess if Sundqvists ends up a hall of famer.....nevermind, there is no way that trade is anything but a win for the Pens.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:43 pm

penny lane wrote:On Sunday v columbus, Dubinsky was almost a gentleman on the ice. I think Reaves had a subtle impact.
For reasons gone over since June, Reaves didn't get Sullivan's full approval/trust. I enjoyed getting to know his story through out the season. He now has to protect Flower!


Dubinsky recently had his face smashed in and is staying away from any sort of fighting. The Bluejackets in general aren't that team anymore and are almost dead last in the league in penalty minutes per game. But knowing this doesn't fit the argument that Reaves deters and makes everyone shake in their boots.
Last edited by Owchar76 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:47 pm

Maestro wrote:Don Cherry just said big mistake to deal Reaves away - Crosby will get manhandled in the playoffs and nobody will stand up to stop it.


Exactly! Reaves did such a good job for Crosby the last two Cup runs! (all the way from St. Louis)
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:50 pm

BurghThing wrote:I understand your last point, but we've reached the point where the league won't even call the automatic penalties against us. No need for Reaves at this point.


The league has the power to put a stop to cheap shots and dirty play. They choose not to. Saying, "I'll show you" by bringing in Reaves accomplishes nothing. Sestito accomplished nothing.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby pronovost19 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:53 pm

VGK were impressed enough with RR that they went out and acquired him. RR had a good game against them and they obviously see a need for him. Good for RR. Only time will tell if dealing him causes problems for the big boys come playoff time. I think Oleksiak can handle the enforcer chore when needed.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:54 pm

It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:00 pm

wondermoose wrote:It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.

Not much to prove it one way or the other. Can't really discuss it very well that way.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:33 pm

Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.

Not much to prove it one way or the other. Can't really discuss it very well that way.


Nope, we just need to take the word of the players themselves. If Sid and Geno feel better with them there, then that's good enough for me!
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Maestro on Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:32 pm

Cherry stated Crosby has stayed healthy all season with Reaves on the team.
Injuries do seem way down - particularly injuries caused by hits (late, head, behind play, or otherwise) from opponents.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm

wondermoose wrote:
Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.

Not much to prove it one way or the other. Can't really discuss it very well that way.


Nope, we just need to take the word of the players themselves. If Sid and Geno feel better with them there, then that's good enough for me!

For all we know, that's them talking to the camera in captain speak. You're going to be polite about your teammates, especially 87 and 71.

Imagine: "Well, this Reaves guy, he really works hard to keep up with us. As an enforcer he's totally unnecessary, I'd rather have an extra attacker in his spot." You couldn't say that, even if you meant it (doubt that)

Me, I'd much rather have guys like Oleksiak, Hörnqvist and Cole on my team than Reaves. And I don't want to bash Reaves, don't get me wrong. He did his level best for us and I appreciate him for what he's done. He was actually better than what I expected after the first few games. But to use paraphrase Sully's catchphrases, I don't think he makes us hard to play against and him in the lineup does not give the Pens the best chance to win.

The biggest loss might be in the locker room.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:01 pm

Maestro wrote:Cherry stated Crosby has stayed healthy all season with Reaves on the team.
Injuries do seem way down - particularly injuries caused by hits (late, head, behind play, or otherwise) from opponents.


Sid has been healthy.

Would Reaves have prevented his high ankle sprain?
Would he have prevented Orpik's slapshot that hit him in the jaw?
Would he have prevented the Steckell collision? No proof of it being intentional.
The accidental collision with Krejci?
Would Reaves have prevented the mumps?
And we don't even know if the Niskanen thing was intentional either.

These are the injuries he's endured that made him miss time.

We've seen Letang get targetted and luckily avoid injury. We've seen Schultz cheap shotted too and avoid injury. Not sure if Niskanen would have avoided cross checking Sid if Reaves was there based on recent history. Perry and Brown didn't care about Reaves, why would Niskanen?
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 pm

Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.

Not much to prove it one way or the other. Can't really discuss it very well that way.


Nope, we just need to take the word of the players themselves. If Sid and Geno feel better with them there, then that's good enough for me!

For all we know, that's them talking to the camera in captain speak. You're going to be polite about your teammates, especially 87 and 71.

Imagine: "Well, this Reaves guy, he really works hard to keep up with us. As an enforcer he's totally unnecessary, I'd rather have an extra attacker in his spot." You couldn't say that, even if you meant it (doubt that)

Me, I'd much rather have guys like Oleksiak, Hörnqvist and Cole on my team than Reaves. And I don't want to bash Reaves, don't get me wrong. He did his level best for us and I appreciate him for what he's done. He was actually better than what I expected after the first few games. But to use paraphrase Sully's catchphrases, I don't think he makes us hard to play against and him in the lineup does not give the Pens the best chance to win.

The biggest loss might be in the locker room.


Agreed. I laugh when people use quotes from players as proof that they find him useful.

I'm sure the guy is going to speak poorly of a teammate and come to the rink the next day like nothing is wrong.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Steve on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:09 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Maestro wrote:Cherry stated Crosby has stayed healthy all season with Reaves on the team.
Injuries do seem way down - particularly injuries caused by hits (late, head, behind play, or otherwise) from opponents.


Sid has been healthy.

Would Reaves have prevented his high ankle sprain?
Would he have prevented Orpik's slapshot that hit him in the jaw?
Would he have prevented the Steckell collision? No proof of it being intentional.
The accidental collision with Krejci?
Would Reaves have prevented the mumps?
And we don't even know if the Niskanen thing was intentional either.

These are the injuries he's endured that made him miss time.

We've seen Letang get targetted and luckily avoid injury. We've seen Schultz cheap shotted too and avoid injury. Not sure if Niskanen would have avoided cross checking Sid if Reaves was there based on recent history. Perry and Brown didn't care about Reaves, why would Niskanen?


All of this is just proof that Reaves can not prevent everything, and I don't know anyone who is making that claim. If you find someone who is, i'll join you in mocking them.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Jim on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:11 pm

Steve wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Maestro wrote:Cherry stated Crosby has stayed healthy all season with Reaves on the team.
Injuries do seem way down - particularly injuries caused by hits (late, head, behind play, or otherwise) from opponents.


Sid has been healthy.

Would Reaves have prevented his high ankle sprain?
Would he have prevented Orpik's slapshot that hit him in the jaw?
Would he have prevented the Steckell collision? No proof of it being intentional.
The accidental collision with Krejci?
Would Reaves have prevented the mumps?
And we don't even know if the Niskanen thing was intentional either.

These are the injuries he's endured that made him miss time.

We've seen Letang get targetted and luckily avoid injury. We've seen Schultz cheap shotted too and avoid injury. Not sure if Niskanen would have avoided cross checking Sid if Reaves was there based on recent history. Perry and Brown didn't care about Reaves, why would Niskanen?


All of this is just proof that Reaves can not prevent everything, and I don't know anyone who is making that claim. If you find someone who is, i'll join you in mocking them.


Steve, your bad day is just a little bit better isn't it? See, I told you.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby wondermoose on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:13 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
Puck-Lurker wrote:
wondermoose wrote:It's so silly that so many fans say that Reaves does nothing for Crosby or Malkin when there's literally no way to prove it.

Not much to prove it one way or the other. Can't really discuss it very well that way.


Nope, we just need to take the word of the players themselves. If Sid and Geno feel better with them there, then that's good enough for me!

For all we know, that's them talking to the camera in captain speak. You're going to be polite about your teammates, especially 87 and 71.

Imagine: "Well, this Reaves guy, he really works hard to keep up with us. As an enforcer he's totally unnecessary, I'd rather have an extra attacker in his spot." You couldn't say that, even if you meant it (doubt that)

Me, I'd much rather have guys like Oleksiak, Hörnqvist and Cole on my team than Reaves. And I don't want to bash Reaves, don't get me wrong. He did his level best for us and I appreciate him for what he's done. He was actually better than what I expected after the first few games. But to use paraphrase Sully's catchphrases, I don't think he makes us hard to play against and him in the lineup does not give the Pens the best chance to win.

The biggest loss might be in the locker room.


Agreed. I laugh when people use quotes from players as proof that they find him useful.

I'm sure the guy is going to speak poorly of a teammate and come to the rink the next day like nothing is wrong.


Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

But honestly, your conspiracy sounds a bit more far fetched than mine. I just don't think professional hockey players think of their teammates are a joke like you think they might.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:43 pm

wondermoose wrote:But honestly, your conspiracy sounds a bit more far fetched than mine. I just don't think professional hockey players think of their teammates are a joke like you think they might.

It was meant to be far fetched.

"You (Crosby/Malkin) couldn't say that, even if you meant it (doubt that)"

So I doubted it was anywhere near that black and white when I wrote that. Golly, must've been far fetched then? Nuance gets lost in text discussions now and then, I guess.

Think we've cleared this thing up now? :pop:

Don't think teammates laughing behind Reaves' back is very likely.
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Re: Losing Ryan Reaves, did we not need an enforcer?

Postby longtimefan on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:40 pm

I think Reaves is a better hockey player than a lot of people give him credit for. With all due respect, as far as the deterrent issue goes, I'll always listen to the players and coaches before any fan. Having said that, the game is different now. For a couple of years, Engellend handled the job here. During the last couple years, it was usually left to Cole if anything got out of hand. It's not a situation where a guy has to fight ten times a season, as much as that you need somebody who can answer the bell. You really can't have defenseman piling up majors because it plays havoc with your pairings. In today's game though, you just need to be able to answer if you need to.

Oleksiak is not a seasoned heavyweight fighter, but, having watched him since he's got here, he is a much better fit than Cole for that job. He's not afraid to drop the gloves, and stepped in on Reaves' behalf to pummel Smith, so he has his teammates backs. He's got 11 career fights in 168 games. 5 in 49 this season. He's also been dominant in the majority of his fights. I personally love having a luxury of a guy like Reaves, but, in today's game, I think Oleksiak can help keep things calmed down to some degree. So he becomes the defacto enforcer. The Pens could do a lot worse.
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