2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 23, 2018 11:00 am

Also of note on the re-entering of the draft, Penguins have d-man Connor Hall, 3rd round pick in 2016, who can re enter the draft if not signed.

General indication is Penguins aren't likely to sign him. He's dealt with some injuries, and I believe recently had shoulder surgery.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby 100565 on Wed May 23, 2018 11:41 am

FLPensFan, What are your overall thoughts on Valentin Zykov? Specifically, skating? Any chance the Panthers would deal him?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby brwi on Wed May 23, 2018 11:43 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:That's sad that Ian Cole didn't get kudos from GMJR for the role he played. I won't be surprised if we go through several more playoff disappointments until it's realized that you need guys like Ian Cole who are very good penalty killers who are willing to give up their body to block shots. Give me the Ian Cole's of the world any day over the Letang/Karlsson type defensemen who can score 2 but are responsible for 4 against because they won't do what's needed defensively.

We are stuck with Hunwick now because Sullivan loved his skating. It's too bad he can't play defense, but I guess that's not important.


I think they realize they need that type of player, ie Jamie Oleksiak trade, but I also think they want people that will tow the Mike Sullivan line. Not saying if that's good or bad, just how it seems.

Couldn't agree more on both accounts. I think Cole had his ups and downs, but, a lot of his downs came when he was paired......with Letang. I don't think the Penguins win their two Cups without Cole back there.

That being said, I do agree to a point that he became a bit too chummy with the media at times. I know that Cole as well as Cole's parents were subscribers of DK's site and fed DK a lot of information. DK stated the subscriber part once or twice in Q&A's. I also feel that Oleksiak was brought in to be a replacement for Cole. I think Oleksiak is a little bit more physical, and has a bit more offensive ability, but doesn't have the shot blocking ability that Cole had.

I think Hunwick was brought in to replace Cole because he's on paper a better system fit than Cole. Olesiak got acquired once Pens realized they missed Hainsey and it wasn't the end-all and be-all to have a dman that is the ideal fit for the Sully d system. Hainsey wasn't but could play very good D. Olesiak is also not really a system fit either but was available for cheap at the time,has size, some open ice speed, and became competent in his own zone. Of course, Sully tires to shelter the bottom pair dmen by heavily relying(too much!) on the other 4.

Pens blew it by not re-signing Hainsey who went to Toronto for about the exact same contract as Hunwick signed with the Pens.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed May 23, 2018 12:02 pm

100565 wrote:FLPensFan, What are your overall thoughts on Valentin Zykov? Specifically, skating? Any chance the Panthers would deal him?


I don't know if the Panthers would deal him, but the Hurricanes might.

In NHL17 he was really good after a couple season in GM mode. No idea about him in real life though.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed May 23, 2018 12:06 pm

brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Pens blew it by not re-signing Hainsey who went to Toronto for about the exact same contract as Hunwick signed with the Pens.


$3Mx2, $2.25Mx3

You are assuming that Hainsey would have wanted to come back. 36 years old vs 32 years old too...
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pitts on Wed May 23, 2018 12:25 pm

Jim wrote:
brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Pens blew it by not re-signing Hainsey who went to Toronto for about the exact same contract as Hunwick signed with the Pens.


$3Mx2, $2.25Mx3

You are assuming that Hainsey would have wanted to come back. 36 years old vs 32 years old too...

I certainly would assume Hainsey would want to come back and try for another Cup. Yes. And, I would have rather the Pens kept him. I thought he performed admirably.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Jim wrote:
brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Pens blew it by not re-signing Hainsey who went to Toronto for about the exact same contract as Hunwick signed with the Pens.


$3Mx2, $2.25Mx3

You are assuming that Hainsey would have wanted to come back. 36 years old vs 32 years old too...

Just an FYI, the quoting there is wrong......brwi made the Hainsey comments, not I.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Wed May 23, 2018 12:56 pm

Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:
brwi wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Pens blew it by not re-signing Hainsey who went to Toronto for about the exact same contract as Hunwick signed with the Pens.


$3Mx2, $2.25Mx3

You are assuming that Hainsey would have wanted to come back. 36 years old vs 32 years old too...

I certainly would assume Hainsey would want to come back and try for another Cup. Yes. And, I would have rather the Pens kept him. I thought he performed admirably.


I don't think retaining Hainsey would have had any meaningful effect on how this season ended. It certainly would not have stopped Letang's numerous brain farts, nor would it have helped the secondary scoring which disappeared during the playoffs. If you want to argue that Hainsey is better than Hunwick then sure its easy to make that determination after the season is over. Everything else being equal based on the information last July, you pay the younger player.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 23, 2018 12:58 pm

Jim wrote:
100565 wrote:FLPensFan, What are your overall thoughts on Valentin Zykov? Specifically, skating? Any chance the Panthers would deal him?


I don't know if the Panthers would deal him, but the Hurricanes might.

In NHL17 he was really good after a couple season in GM mode. No idea about him in real life though.

As Jim states, he is property of the Carolina Hurricanes, not the Florida Panthers. I don't know a lot about him, but from what I have seen through some different prospect reports, he is a good skater. Carolina brought him up for 10 games at the end of the season, where he had 3 goals, 4 assists in those 10 games. He is someone I would think they would want to hang onto.

2 of Zykov's goals came in one game, which you can see in the highlights below. His goals start at the 43 seconds for the 1st one, and 3:47 for the 2nd one. He's #73. This also happens to be the Cam Ward own goal game, which occurs right after the 1st Zykov goal. If you haven't seen it before, the puck gets dumped in behind the net, as Ward goes behind the net, the puck gets caught in the plastic skate holder. Ward loses sight of it, goes back to his net, and goes into butterfly, where he pushes his skate with the puck into the net for a goal. Pretty wild.


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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby no name on Wed May 23, 2018 1:02 pm

After watching the 2017 Pens team and the current Vegas team you got to wonder do you really need that one top end defenseman to win a cup or get far. Is having a deep blue line (6 guys with little weaknesses but no outstanding traits) better than a top guy and a suspect 3rd pair??

Food for thought!!!

Looking at the 2016 pens team we had Letang playing great but we didn't have a suspect 3rd pairing. Schultz might of been considered suspect at the time but not now.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed May 23, 2018 1:06 pm

no name wrote:After watching the 2017 Pens team and the current Vegas team you got to wonder do you really need that one top end defenseman to win a cup or get far. Is having a deep blue line (6 guys with little weaknesses but no outstanding traits) better than a top guy and a suspect 3rd pair??

Food for thought!!!

Looking at the 2016 pens team we had Letang playing great but we didn't have a suspect 3rd pairing. Schultz might of been considered suspect at the time but not now.


No, you dont. We didnt have one last year and we won the cup. Once JR moved away from the Shero model of spending big on defense, we started loading up the lines with real good hockey players. I hope we never go back to that model. In fact, I hope we trade away the last remaining piece to that model in Letang.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby dark_forces on Wed May 23, 2018 2:37 pm

As far as drafting goes, what positions - from an organizational depth perspective - should we focus on?
I'm thinking centermen and defense. We need to really start mining some future, higher end centers who at least could fill a 2nd line role.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed May 23, 2018 2:58 pm

dark_forces wrote:As far as drafting goes, what positions - from an organizational depth perspective - should we focus on?
I'm thinking centermen and defense. We need to really start mining some future, higher end centers who at least could fill a 2nd line role.


I think Sprong version of a LW (someone who drops but can skate well and score) and D. The way the team is setup, I doubt you'll find a high end center anything after 5th overall so will likely have to build D/W and replace Crosby/Malkin with a lottery pick.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 23, 2018 3:50 pm

Daniel wrote:
dark_forces wrote:As far as drafting goes, what positions - from an organizational depth perspective - should we focus on?
I'm thinking centermen and defense. We need to really start mining some future, higher end centers who at least could fill a 2nd line role.


I think Sprong version of a LW (someone who drops but can skate well and score) and D. The way the team is setup, I doubt you'll find a high end center anything after 5th overall so will likely have to build D/W and replace Crosby/Malkin with a lottery pick.

This draft class seems weak to me. Corey Pronman has been doing prospect work for several years. He has some good pieces on the Athletic looking at top 74 skaters, and then the top 10 goalies in the draft. Essentially, he has only 21 skaters with a 1st round grade, and his 2nd round grade for players stops at player #42. Now, because this is the first year he's worked for the Athletic and put reports like this out, it is hard for me to compare to his previous work, but, 31 team and only 21 skaters with 1st round grades, and only 21 more with 2nd round grades......that on the surface points to a weak draft.

As for what to take......the Penguins have a 2nd, OTT's 3rd, 2 5th's (PIT AND DET), a 6th and a 7th.

I see defense as the number 1 need right now. If you look at what they have in the system, there are ZERO defensemen right now that are making a significant push for NHL work. They had Bengtsson and Pedan leave for Europe and KHL respectively. I have heard Dylan Zink, who spent most of the year in ECHL Wheeling, has also left the organization. I'm hearing the Penguins most likely aren't going to sign Connor Hall and he will re-enter the draft. Riikola, Corrado, and Jeff Taylor are probably the top 3 "prospects" the Penguins have on defense. Guys like Trotman, Czuczman, Summers, and Tinordi are not really prospects. They are more journeyman that likely will never nail down a full time NHL job, but can get occasional spot work in the NHL. Problem is, out of those 42 1st/2nd round grades from Pronman, only 12 were defensemen. Again, pretty weak there.

If the Penguins went defense with their 2nd round pick, two guys I would look at, depending on their availability, would be Calen Addison out of Lethbridge in the WHL, and K'Andre Miller of the US National Team Development Program.

Addison had high marks for skating, puck skills, and hockey sense, with lower marks in physical play. He was one of the top scoring defensemen in the WHL, and listed as one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. He has good puck skills, and a decent shot. His main drawback is his size at 5'10"

Moore is a 6'3" converted forward. He is considered a great athlete, and like Addison, one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. Unlike Addison, he is a lot more physical with his size. Questions on him are, how good can he be offensively from the backend, as he shows flashes of offensive ability after converting to defense from the forward position.

It's hard to get a good gauge on a 16-17-18 year old's defensive ability at this stage of their career, unless they are a lights out elite level talent, but I was looking more at guys who were better skaters and had offensive upside, ability to move the puck quick or rush the zone.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed May 23, 2018 4:10 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
dark_forces wrote:As far as drafting goes, what positions - from an organizational depth perspective - should we focus on?
I'm thinking centermen and defense. We need to really start mining some future, higher end centers who at least could fill a 2nd line role.


I think Sprong version of a LW (someone who drops but can skate well and score) and D. The way the team is setup, I doubt you'll find a high end center anything after 5th overall so will likely have to build D/W and replace Crosby/Malkin with a lottery pick.

This draft class seems weak to me. Corey Pronman has been doing prospect work for several years. He has some good pieces on the Athletic looking at top 74 skaters, and then the top 10 goalies in the draft. Essentially, he has only 21 skaters with a 1st round grade, and his 2nd round grade for players stops at player #42. Now, because this is the first year he's worked for the Athletic and put reports like this out, it is hard for me to compare to his previous work, but, 31 team and only 21 skaters with 1st round grades, and only 21 more with 2nd round grades......that on the surface points to a weak draft.

As for what to take......the Penguins have a 2nd, OTT's 3rd, 2 5th's (PIT AND DET), a 6th and a 7th.

I see defense as the number 1 need right now. If you look at what they have in the system, there are ZERO defensemen right now that are making a significant push for NHL work. They had Bengtsson and Pedan leave for Europe and KHL respectively. I have heard Dylan Zink, who spent most of the year in ECHL Wheeling, has also left the organization. I'm hearing the Penguins most likely aren't going to sign Connor Hall and he will re-enter the draft. Riikola, Corrado, and Jeff Taylor are probably the top 3 "prospects" the Penguins have on defense. Guys like Trotman, Czuczman, Summers, and Tinordi are not really prospects. They are more journeyman that likely will never nail down a full time NHL job, but can get occasional spot work in the NHL. Problem is, out of those 42 1st/2nd round grades from Pronman, only 12 were defensemen. Again, pretty weak there.

If the Penguins went defense with their 2nd round pick, two guys I would look at, depending on their availability, would be Calen Addison out of Lethbridge in the WHL, and K'Andre Miller of the US National Team Development Program.

Addison had high marks for skating, puck skills, and hockey sense, with lower marks in physical play. He was one of the top scoring defensemen in the WHL, and listed as one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. He has good puck skills, and a decent shot. His main drawback is his size at 5'10"

Moore is a 6'3" converted forward. He is considered a great athlete, and like Addison, one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. Unlike Addison, he is a lot more physical with his size. Questions on him are, how good can he be offensively from the backend, as he shows flashes of offensive ability after converting to defense from the forward position.

It's hard to get a good gauge on a 16-17-18 year old's defensive ability at this stage of their career, unless they are a lights out elite level talent, but I was looking more at guys who were better skaters and had offensive upside, ability to move the puck quick or rush the zone.


It's a shame about Connor Hall, he read like a younger/bigger version of Ian Cole. Hopefully he can sign and get to WBS this year, but like you said, unlikely.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Wed May 23, 2018 4:21 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
dark_forces wrote:As far as drafting goes, what positions - from an organizational depth perspective - should we focus on?
I'm thinking centermen and defense. We need to really start mining some future, higher end centers who at least could fill a 2nd line role.


I think Sprong version of a LW (someone who drops but can skate well and score) and D. The way the team is setup, I doubt you'll find a high end center anything after 5th overall so will likely have to build D/W and replace Crosby/Malkin with a lottery pick.

This draft class seems weak to me. Corey Pronman has been doing prospect work for several years. He has some good pieces on the Athletic looking at top 74 skaters, and then the top 10 goalies in the draft. Essentially, he has only 21 skaters with a 1st round grade, and his 2nd round grade for players stops at player #42. Now, because this is the first year he's worked for the Athletic and put reports like this out, it is hard for me to compare to his previous work, but, 31 team and only 21 skaters with 1st round grades, and only 21 more with 2nd round grades......that on the surface points to a weak draft.

As for what to take......the Penguins have a 2nd, OTT's 3rd, 2 5th's (PIT AND DET), a 6th and a 7th.

I see defense as the number 1 need right now. If you look at what they have in the system, there are ZERO defensemen right now that are making a significant push for NHL work. They had Bengtsson and Pedan leave for Europe and KHL respectively. I have heard Dylan Zink, who spent most of the year in ECHL Wheeling, has also left the organization. I'm hearing the Penguins most likely aren't going to sign Connor Hall and he will re-enter the draft. Riikola, Corrado, and Jeff Taylor are probably the top 3 "prospects" the Penguins have on defense. Guys like Trotman, Czuczman, Summers, and Tinordi are not really prospects. They are more journeyman that likely will never nail down a full time NHL job, but can get occasional spot work in the NHL. Problem is, out of those 42 1st/2nd round grades from Pronman, only 12 were defensemen. Again, pretty weak there.

If the Penguins went defense with their 2nd round pick, two guys I would look at, depending on their availability, would be Calen Addison out of Lethbridge in the WHL, and K'Andre Miller of the US National Team Development Program.

Addison had high marks for skating, puck skills, and hockey sense, with lower marks in physical play. He was one of the top scoring defensemen in the WHL, and listed as one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. He has good puck skills, and a decent shot. His main drawback is his size at 5'10"

Moore is a 6'3" converted forward. He is considered a great athlete, and like Addison, one of the better skating defensemen in the draft. Unlike Addison, he is a lot more physical with his size. Questions on him are, how good can he be offensively from the backend, as he shows flashes of offensive ability after converting to defense from the forward position.

It's hard to get a good gauge on a 16-17-18 year old's defensive ability at this stage of their career, unless they are a lights out elite level talent, but I was looking more at guys who were better skaters and had offensive upside, ability to move the puck quick or rush the zone.


It's a shame about Connor Hall, he read like a younger/bigger version of Ian Cole. Hopefully he can sign and get to WBS this year, but like you said, unlikely.


Hopefully Hall doesn't turn into another Jake Mussin who also had injury issues in junior, and after the Pens didn't sign him he turned it a serviceable NHL defensemen.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Wed May 23, 2018 4:43 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Daniel wrote:It's a shame about Connor Hall, he read like a younger/bigger version of Ian Cole. Hopefully he can sign and get to WBS this year, but like you said, unlikely.


Hopefully Hall doesn't turn into another Jake Mussin who also had injury issues in junior, and after the Pens didn't sign him he turned it a serviceable NHL defensemen.


From what I've read about him, that's probably what'll happen. For a team with a dearth of defense prospects, it seems wise to sign him. But, other than injuries, who knows if something else is going on.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Wed May 23, 2018 4:59 pm

“We have him for another year and that’s the way it remains,” Waddell said. “Jeff’s been a great player for our franchise. Certainly if there’s another fit someplace that makes sense for all of us we might explore it, but if not we know he’ll be a part of this group going forward.”

Courtesy: TSN 
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed May 23, 2018 8:01 pm

I just don't know how the Pens fill their needs of a top 6 LW and a top 4 D by only moving Sheary and Hunwick.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Wed May 23, 2018 8:12 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:I just don't know how the Pens fill their needs of a top 6 LW and a top 4 D by only moving Sheary and Hunwick.

We dont unless someone takes a discount. If the Canes' owner really wants to make a splash and some in the org really are tiring of Phil, maybe there's a match. Phil for Skinner and one of the Canes' surplus D? I know, Phil probably wouldn't waive for there. Although he could play in near anonymity in Carolina. :evil:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Wed May 23, 2018 8:29 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a NMC gone once the player is traded?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Wed May 23, 2018 8:37 pm

Is anyone else salty that after years of Shero's "defensemen uber alles" drafting philosophy, the Flyers and Hurricanes are the ones with multiple young promising dmen and all the Pens have is Maatta and his cement skates?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Wed May 23, 2018 8:46 pm

Malkintent wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a NMC gone once the player is traded?


I assume when you acquire the contract of a player you acquire the provisions of the contract which would include a NMC.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve Dave on Thu May 24, 2018 5:53 am

Malkintent wrote:Is anyone else salty that after years of Shero's "defensemen uber alles" drafting philosophy, the Flyers and Hurricanes are the ones with multiple young promising dmen and all the Pens have is Maatta and his cement skates?

Pens have 3 Cups
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Thu May 24, 2018 7:38 am

Steve Dave wrote:
Malkintent wrote:Is anyone else salty that after years of Shero's "defensemen uber alles" drafting philosophy, the Flyers and Hurricanes are the ones with multiple young promising dmen and all the Pens have is Maatta and his cement skates?

Pens have 3 Cups


3?

5?
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