2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby interstorm on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:06 pm

Well the debate here on this forum these days is:
1) whether the team is better off with a damn the torpedos approach and try to win now.
2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded
3) how to do a reload approach instead of a full rebuild - somewhere in between the 2 above.

I'd say a move for Lucic, made by trading Sheary and Edmonton retaining salary, fall squarely in that option #1 bucket. I'd also contend it might be as possible as almost anything else dreamt up here and adds another potential star (a possible fading one but still a star) while keeping the big names in house. Could a Rust-Brass-Lucic line mix speed, responsibility and grit? A similar 4th line with Milan could also be created to balance skills. Doing this could allow Kessel to play with Malkin (side note: I think it is wise to keep a 3 line model like the last 2 cup years. Makes the team so much harder to play against but if Kessel is moved up to 2, we'll need an effective line with an identity at 3).

Would his contract be a problem later? Probably (depends really on salary retention) but quite possibly so would others with option #1. If that's the plan, though, that's the plan.

For those in favor of #2 it is obvious Lucic makes no sense. By all accounts too with that option Kessel SHOULD be moved. Possibly Letang too.

Option #3 could be curious - maybe Kessel goes to get younger and faster but Lucic is added to get grittier and balance whatever youth is added. This option is pretty wide open on the various scenarios that could happen.

Honestly I'm not certain which of those options I believe in and I don't know which way the team will go (I'd guess #1 but that is just a guess). As I said - going that first route I think a move for Lucic (for the right deal) fits that model and adds something to the team which we don't have and that we do need.

Anyway - just throwing this idea out for discussion on a slow day - thanks all for the banter :)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:13 pm

interstorm wrote:Well the debate here on this forum these days is:
1) whether the team is better off with a damn the torpedos approach and try to win now.
2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded
3) how to do a reload approach instead of a full rebuild - somewhere in between the 2 above.

I'd say a move for Lucic, made by trading Sheary and Edmonton retaining salary, fall squarely in that option #1 bucket. I'd also contend it might be as possible as almost anything else dreamt up here and adds another potential star (a possible fading one but still a star) while keeping the big names in house. Could a Rust-Brass-Lucic line mix speed, responsibility and grit? A similar 4th line with Milan could also be created to balance skills. Doing this could allow Kessel to play with Malkin (side note: I think it is wise to keep a 3 line model like the last 2 cup years. Makes the team so much harder to play against but if Kessel is moved up to 2, we'll need an effective line with an identity at 3).

Would his contract be a problem later? Probably (depends really on salary retention) but quite possibly so would others with option #1. If that's the plan, though, that's the plan.

For those in favor of #2 it is obvious Lucic makes no sense. By all accounts too with that option Kessel SHOULD be moved. Possibly Letang too.

Option #3 could be curious - maybe Kessel goes to get younger and faster but Lucic is added to get grittier and balance whatever youth is added. This option is pretty wide open on the various scenarios that could happen.

Honestly I'm not certain which of those options I believe in and I don't know which way the team will go (I'd guess #1 but that is just a guess). As I said - going that first route I think a move for Lucic (for the right deal) fits that model and adds something to the team which we don't have and that we do need.

Anyway - just throwing this idea out for discussion on a slow day - thanks all for the banter :)


What about trade Letang?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:56 pm

interstorm wrote:Like I said - Lucic is by no means a perfect acquisition but at the right price, for the right package, he fills a desperate need. I think if Wayne Simmonds was suddenly available everyone (myself included) would jump at the chance for him. The difference between these 2 is the salary and Milan's poorer year last year (with less ice time) but that **might** be attributed to his surroundings. Anyway...will be watching where he goes (because I think he's going) and how he performs. For a "win now" team if salary could be retained I'd love to have him (truthfully too if Edmonton retained 50% and took Sheary I wouldn't expect that #10. I think we could offload him later as well if needed to a team with cap space).

I wouldn't expect the 10, I would want more of a second rounder or so or maybe a pick next year instead.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:58 pm

ville5 wrote:Thing is, the Pens would need 50% retention on Lucic. If Chia decides to sell, he'll find someone dumb to take less than 50% retention. I personally don't think he's the right fit.

yes that's the problem, there will be some GM dumb enough to not demand that much retention, making this whole topic moot as even at 50% retention the contract isn't too good, so the pens cannot accept anything less but some dumb GM with more cap space can.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:30 am

interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Defence21 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:05 am

Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.

I don't disagree -- but I also think it's poor management to hang on to players too long, and then have significant money tied into players who are under-performing and untradeable. It's a very fine line between constantly looking for youth (Pirates) and hanging on to players too long.

I don't believe the Penguins need to trade anyone right now, but if the right deal is proposed for Kessel, he should be dealt. Some are saying he needs to go because the core will be old in five years. That's true. They will. But this year is not the required year for trading anyone -- no year is. With that being said, it's also not the wrong year. If GMJR can get a return that helps the team in the present and future and is value for value, he has to make it, especially considering Kessel is coming off a career year and theoretically has the highest value he has had in a long, long time and possibly ever will.

In short, don't trade to get younger. Trade to get better while acquiring younger players.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:11 am

Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.


While I think a roster 100% devoid of people over 30 may not work, you definitely do not want more than a couple if you plan on winning. We had 4 players (of the regulars who actually played) over 30 when we won the cup 2 years ago and 3 the year before (Cullen and Kunitz were on both). When the Kings were dominant, they never had more than 3 who played any decent minutes. I think 3 is the right number. Definitely as a rule of thumb, especially where the league is heading now. (Caps had 5 if you were wondering, Orpik being the eldest and he was terrible).
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:46 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.


While I think a roster 100% devoid of people over 30 may not work, you definitely do not want more than a couple if you plan on winning. We had 4 players (of the regulars who actually played) over 30 when we won the cup 2 years ago and 3 the year before (Cullen and Kunitz were on both). When the Kings were dominant, they never had more than 3 who played any decent minutes. I think 3 is the right number. Definitely as a rule of thumb, especially where the league is heading now. (Caps had 5 if you were wondering, Orpik being the eldest and he was terrible).

Most players best years are in their early thirties, and you want to get rid of them.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:59 am

Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.

It's not selling off every player because they hit 30/31. It's having the right balance in your lineup. I'm not here saying OMG Crosby and Malkin are 31, dump em now. The issue is the Penguins have 7 players that will be 30 or 31 when the season starts. That's a bit much and concerning. The bigger issue that I have with that, however, is those 7 players are ALL OF THEIR TOP PLAYERS. It's one thing to have a mix of age and skill in your top 6, and have an older vet or two in the bottom 6 (Kunitz, Cullen). Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Brassard, and Hagelin up front.....50% of your starting forwards are over 30. Letang is the 7th.

This year's playoff teams # of forwards 30 or over:
================================
Washington (4) - OVI, Backstrom, Oshie, Beagle
Vegas (4) - Bellmare, Neal, Perron, Reaves (Reaves often an extra)
Boston (6) - Bergeron, Krejci, Backes, Marchand, Wingels, Ric. Nash (Wingels often an extra)
Tampa (2) - Callahan, Kunitz
Nashville (2) - Bonino, Hartnell
Los Angeles (6) - Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Lewis, Thompson, Mitchell
Colorado (2) - Soderstrom, Comeau
Winnipeg (6) - Wheeler, Little, Perrault, Hendricks, Stastny, Matthias (Matthias and Hendricks extras)
Minnesota (5) - Parise, Koivu, Staal, Winnik, Cullen
San Jose (5) - Pavelski, Thorton, Ward, Fehr, Hansen (Hansen an extra)
New Jersey (5) - Zajac, Boyle, Grabner, Maroon, Gibbons
Columbus (4) - Dubinsky, Foligno, Vanek, Letestu
Toronto (5) - Marleau, Plekanec, Bozak, Komarov, Moore
Philly (4) - Giroux, Lehtera, Read, Filppula

There are a few teams above (3) that have the same amount of over 30 forwards, however, those over 30 guys are either a balanced mix of top 6 and bottom 6, or include players that were not full time players for their teams. The Penguins hold onto all these older players, it MAY get them through the window, but at the end of the window, they are left holding the bag on a half dozen players that aren't going to get you much in return. And, you look at teams like Toronto, Tampa, Colorado, Columbus, Philly, New Jersey.....all those teams are getting younger. At some point, no matter if we have a Hagelin and Kessel on our team, their team full of 22-26 year old legs is going to be outskating our team, and have more overall energy.

It's kind of like a car. I buy a new car. I make payments for 5 years. In year 6, 7, or 8, the car still works fine with no issues, however, I should consider looking at another car if I plan on trading my current car in and I still want it to have value. Or, I can keep my car until its 10-12 years old, where it will still likely be able to do the job but start having issues, but I'm not going to be able to get any value out of the car when I go to move it.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:24 am

Just considering 71 and 87, we'll probably never have two players as good as those at the same time again (although I probably said that about 66 and 68 ha). We'll never know until after the fact, when the exact best time to move on from these players are. If they have to move one of them, and that would most likely be Geno, I would rather make that move two years too late than two years too early.

Malkin's contract will be up when he's 35. It really depends on his contract demands then in relation to his expected play at 35 to 38 or whatever his timeframe is. As for Sid, according to Cap friendly, Sid is expected to have the 11th highest cap hit next season, and he'll move down that list more the following season. That's' tremendous value.

As for the other core players, I'm only ok with a move if it improves their chances at a cup in the near term. Worry about the future later, and normally I would not make this statement but it's all based on how lucky we are now. The Pens are almost certainly going to crash after the Sid and Geno era, just enjoy it now and know that rebuilds can be an exciting time too.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:31 am

Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:36 am

penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


Penny and I are on the same page. Do not even mention the idea of trading away Geno. He will not have the same fate as Jagr. He will retire a member of the Penguins organization as a player who only played for the Penguins organization.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:44 am

penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


I never said to trade Geno, others have suggested that though. But as I typed, it really depends on what Geno's demands are at 35. They probably aren't going to give him a contract that puts him in the top five highest players in the league if he's no longer a top five player.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:48 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


Penny and I are on the same page. Do not even mention the idea of trading away Geno. He will not have the same fate as Jagr. He will retire a member of the Penguins organization as a player who only played for the Penguins organization.


I hope Malkin retires as a Penguin but I'm sure other fans said the same thing about Orr and Gretzky.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:14 am

Defence21 wrote:I don't disagree -- but I also think it's poor management to hang on to players too long, and then have significant money tied into players who are under-performing and untradeable. It's a very fine line between constantly looking for youth (Pirates) and hanging on to players too long.

I don't believe the Penguins need to trade anyone right now, but if the right deal is proposed for Kessel, he should be dealt. Some are saying he needs to go because the core will be old in five years. That's true. They will. But this year is not the required year for trading anyone -- no year is. With that being said, it's also not the wrong year. If GMJR can get a return that helps the team in the present and future and is value for value, he has to make it, especially considering Kessel is coming off a career year and theoretically has the highest value he has had in a long, long time and possibly ever will.

In short, don't trade to get younger. Trade to get better while acquiring younger players.


While I agree the Penguins have probably 1-2 years before they need to shed some older/more expensive players, I like the idea of trading Phil now because they're selling high. He had the best year of his career by 10 points.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:28 am

Steve wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


Penny and I are on the same page. Do not even mention the idea of trading away Geno. He will not have the same fate as Jagr. He will retire a member of the Penguins organization as a player who only played for the Penguins organization.


I hope Malkin retires as a Penguin but I'm sure other fans said the same thing about Orr and Gretzky.

I wouldn't be surprised if he finished his career in the KHL. I don't think he's fully assimilated into North American culture. I wouldn't be surprised if Magnitogorsk waved big money at him the next time his contract is up.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pensfan4life8771 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:44 am

I honestly think Crosby and Malkin both finish their careers in Pittsburgh.

As far as age debate, when it comes to Sid or Geno its not a factor. The way these guys condition every offseason is insane. Will their body not be as fresh as say McDavid? Well yes a 20 vs 30 is different but I don't think you'll see this all of sudden drop in production/skill.

Also I'm not sure how many people listened to MM yesterday but I caught piece of his interview with Dejean and he said he got the impression that Rutherford is pushing hard to land a top 5 draft pick this year? What could we even offer up in trade to do so? Who would we target? Besides the really good D-man going to Buffalo at #1 I'm not really familiar with other guys in draft.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Steve wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


Penny and I are on the same page. Do not even mention the idea of trading away Geno. He will not have the same fate as Jagr. He will retire a member of the Penguins organization as a player who only played for the Penguins organization.


I hope Malkin retires as a Penguin but I'm sure other fans said the same thing about Orr and Gretzky.

I wouldn't be surprised if he finished his career in the KHL. I don't think he's fully assimilated into North American culture. I wouldn't be surprised if Magnitogorsk waved big money at him the next time his contract is up.


I can see Geno going to Magnitogorsk when he's ready to retire, but not while he's still a top NHL player. Maybe one more contract and out. I think he'll still be a legit top NHL player at 35.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:09 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
Steve wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:Nope Evgeni will not be traded. Pick another scenario. Besides don't tempt fate!

I read the schedule is coming out June 21.


Penny and I are on the same page. Do not even mention the idea of trading away Geno. He will not have the same fate as Jagr. He will retire a member of the Penguins organization as a player who only played for the Penguins organization.


I hope Malkin retires as a Penguin but I'm sure other fans said the same thing about Orr and Gretzky.

I wouldn't be surprised if he finished his career in the KHL. I don't think he's fully assimilated into North American culture. I wouldn't be surprised if Magnitogorsk waved big money at him the next time his contract is up.


I can see Geno going to Magnitogorsk when he's ready to retire, but not while he's still a top NHL player. Maybe one more contract and out. I think he'll still be a legit top NHL player at 35.

I could see his wife wanting to stay in the US, to be honest. Not sure if she's continued to work in Russian TV since they got married?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:28 pm

Great58 wrote:I could see his wife wanting to stay in the US, to be honest. Not sure if she's continued to work in Russian TV since they got married?



Neat interview and it seems like she's putting down roots. Makes me hope even more that Geno retires a Penguin.

http://www.frivolette.com/art/acting/an ... -in-the-us
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:38 pm

Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.

Yeah, cuz the Pirates have a core that has and can win a championship without that traded, aged 30 or older player. :roll: Not even remotely close.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:43 pm

Brassard and Hagelin are probably done after this season and both are going to play in thr bottom six. When two of your "old" guys are Crosby and Malkin it's not them same as having a bunch of Orpiks lying around.
Last edited by Malkintent on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:50 pm

I am not suggesting purposely go for the oldest forward crew in the land. It helps when you superstar players are 25 and you just need vet aged support players. But when your starts are those vet aged players that doesn't mean that forgo vet support.

The Kessel trade narrative 6 months after he got here was trade him because he is lazy and fat and hotdogs and fat.
The Kessel trade narrative vanished while the Penguins were winning Cups. Surprise.
The Kessel trade narrative came back weeks ago because he is a distraction and the coach hates him and he doesn't listen to anyone and his decision to not scratch himself (as that is apparently his decision after all) cost the Pens #3 in a row.
The Kessel trade narrative changed this week since it is obvious that the other reasons were BS, and now it is because he is OLD and his contract is an albatross.

People are saying to trade Kessel because he is 30 and has 4 more years on his contract. 4. Not 7. Not 8. 4. $6.8M, 80 point guy... but ****, he's 30 with 4 ENTIRE years left on his deal... MOVE HIM while they can still get something, anything... People are trying to justify moving age for the sake of moving age in order to support the only reason to move Kessel that hasn't sunk to the bottom of the Mon yet.

Is ChirpinDBag back pulling moron strings behind the scenes? The Pens get bumped from the playoffs and stupid has come back to this board HARD!!!
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:55 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Jim wrote:
interstorm wrote:2) if we should trade some of our aging players (kessel) to get younger even if the team isn't as star studded


Isn't this waht the Pirates claim to do? Hows that working out for them?

If you keep trading players when they hit 30/31 because they are getting old... you are never going to win. Actually, you might win after a few years of losing and losing and getting high draft picks then having a good year or two wit those guys until you have to trade them because they are not in their 20's anymore.

Poor management model.


While I think a roster 100% devoid of people over 30 may not work, you definitely do not want more than a couple if you plan on winning. We had 4 players (of the regulars who actually played) over 30 when we won the cup 2 years ago and 3 the year before (Cullen and Kunitz were on both). When the Kings were dominant, they never had more than 3 who played any decent minutes. I think 3 is the right number. Definitely as a rule of thumb, especially where the league is heading now. (Caps had 5 if you were wondering, Orpik being the eldest and he was terrible).

Most players best years are in their early thirties, and you want to get rid of them.


There isn't any research to support your statement. There is a lot of actual research around the topic though. Here is a quote from one of the most recent studies.
Within the past 3 years, however, it seems a general consensus has been reached. Rob Vollman summarizes this quite well in his book Stat Shot: The Ultimate Guide to Hockey Analytics: “Most players hit their peak age by age 24 or 25 then decline gradually until age 30, at which point their performance can begin to tumble more noticeably with the risk of absolute collapse by age 34 or 35.”
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:13 pm

Pensfan4life8771 wrote:I honestly think Crosby and Malkin both finish their careers in Pittsburgh.

As far as age debate, when it comes to Sid or Geno its not a factor. The way these guys condition every offseason is insane. Will their body not be as fresh as say McDavid? Well yes a 20 vs 30 is different but I don't think you'll see this all of sudden drop in production/skill.

Also I'm not sure how many people listened to MM yesterday but I caught piece of his interview with Dejean and he said he got the impression that Rutherford is pushing hard to land a top 5 draft pick this year? What could we even offer up in trade to do so? Who would we target? Besides the really good D-man going to Buffalo at #1 I'm not really familiar with other guys in draft.

So, I did not hear this but, let's discuss a bit more in-depth.

The top 5 teams drafting, in order, are Buffalo, Carolina, Montreal, Ottawa, and Arizona.
---Buffalo is not trading the pick. They are taking Dahlin, who is head and shoulders above everyone else in this draft class.
---Carolina is 85-90% sure it is not trading the pick. They are pretty certain they are taking Andrei Svechnikov, LW
---Montreal has the 3rd overall pick. They have FOUR 2nd round picks, so I could see the 3rd overall pick in play.
---Ottawa has the 4th overall pick. I really don't see us being a trade match with Ottawa, unless we were to do something really stupid like Kessel for Bobby Ryan, and even then, I don't think OTT includes #4 overall.
---Arizona has the 5th overall pick. There are multiple scenarios where this may work.

So, I think Buffalo is out, and I think Ottawa is out, in terms of acquiring either one of those picks. Carolina is highly unlikely, but for now let's say picks 2, 3, and 5 are available to trade. What would the cost be?
---Carolina, I'm thinking you'd like have to give up Sprong and Kessel for Skinner and #2 overall. Does that sound appealing to ANYONE?
---Montreal is looking for scoring and centers. I think Brassard is too old to interest them in dealing away the #3 pick, and the next best thing we likely have, Jordy Bellerive, is too much of a complete unknown to be able to acquire the #3 overall pick. Sprong alone isn't enough to pull down the #3 overall pick. Again, best I can probably offer is Sprong AND Kessel for Pacioretty and #3 overall. Not sure why Montreal would make that deal, taking on a more expensive, older Kessel, unless Pacioretty is demanding a trade.
---Finally, we come to Arizona. The long rumored Domi acquisition? Phil Kessel for Max Domi and #5 overall pick. That would likely have to be the deal, unless they were willing to take Sprong and Jarry for Domi and #5 overall.....but I don't think that would fly.

So, Skinner and #2 for Kessel and Sprong, or Domi and #5 for Kessel. Those are the only possible options I see (and even then, Carolina/Arizona may not like those deals). What is available if one of these deals were accepted?
--Andrei Svechnikov is described as probably the only player besides Rasmus Dahlin who could step into the NHL right now. 6'3" LH, LW, been described as a 5-tool player (stealing baseball prospect term) with no glaring weaknesses. Good skater, good shot, good defensively, power forward type. I see Svechnikov only available #2 overall, as he is a widely regarded as the best forward in the draft.
--Filip Zadina. Likely to go #3 overall to Montreal, RW, 6 foot tall. Another guy who is very well rounded, considered to have the best wrist shot in the draft. He is more of a sniper, but he battles for pucks, and plays a 200 foot game.
--Jesperi Kotkaniemi is a center, listed at 6'2". Hard to move off the puck, not the greatest skater (more awkward than speed). Also will need work defensively, but considered to be the 1 center in the draft that could be a 1st line center in his career.
--Brady Tkachuk is a 6'3" LW. He's not fast but a good skater. He doesn't have elite skill, but he will score goals. Me personally, I think he's a bit overhyped because of his last name.
--Quinton Hughes is a 5'10" LD, considered the 2nd best dman behind Dahlin. Considered the best skater of ANY player in the draft, but his size is a concern because he tends to lose board battles.
--Oliver Wahlstrom is 6'1" RH RW, and considered to have the best overall shot in the draft. his skating and defensive work is considered to be OK, not much above average if at all.
--Adam Boqvist is 5'11" RH RD. On the smaller side, he tends to lose puck battles against bigger players. Said to have a very high hockey IQ and a good skater, fairly good defensively for his age.
--Evan Bouchard is a 6'2" RH RD. Good offensive defenseman. Skating is his weakness

As you know, I have been preaching about getting the team younger. Well, I can honestly say I don't see a deal to move into the top 5 that I think would make any sense whatsoever. If you are picking at #5 by getting Domi and #5 for Kessel, the guy you pick at #5 is a crapshoot to even make the team, chances are better that he cannot jump to the NHL in his first year. If you are trading with Carolina, and pickup Zadina or Svechnikov, is it worth giving up Kessel and Sprong. I still don't think this is enough for Carolina to get in return for #2 You'd better be sure whoever you take it going to step in immediately, or else you've just set the team backwards.

As someone that preaches getting younger, I will emphatically say making a trade into the top 5 IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT. It won't help the team soon enough, and the assets given up will likely hurt the overall team makeup more than help.
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