2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:13 am

Guentzel is not in the same sentence or paragraphs as Rust and especially Sheary.

Jake is one of our top line wings. Rust is a clutch two way player who if I had to choose who should get $3 mill, him or Sheary I take Rust every time.

I highly doubt we will get anything of value for Sheary. The cap relief alone would be good by me. Either that or they will move him for another similar struggling player with similar contract. Change of scenery kind of deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:53 am

Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 am

KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

I think Reaves may be a better skater than Lucic. His skating, his cost, his term, and decline in play last year would all be of concern to me. Just to many questions for me to want to take a chance.

Dump Sheary and Hunwick somewhere, and go out and sign Antoine Roussel for 1/3 the price of Lucic contract for the 4th line.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby mig991 on Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:36 am

ville5 wrote:First 3 years:
Galchenyuk- 104 points in 193 games.
Domi- 135 points in 222 games.
Without a doubt Galchenyuk has more skill and is the better goal scorer. But Domi's compete level had never been questioned and gets the most out of what he has. They are both career .61 points per game, but Domi is over a year younger.
I think this is a trade similar to Neal for Hornqvist as far as Montreal is concerned. It's more even than people think.


If he had gone to another team I would agree but Domi won't score and has no one to pass to who can score. Habs, like the Yotes, are on offensive black hole.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby steelershark on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:03 pm

KG wrote:Guentzel is not in the same sentence or paragraphs as Rust and especially Sheary.

Jake is one of our top line wings. Rust is a clutch two way player who if I had to choose who should get $3 mill, him or Sheary I take Rust every time.

I highly doubt we will get anything of value for Sheary. The cap relief alone would be good by me. Either that or they will move him for another similar struggling player with similar contract. Change of scenery kind of deal.


Funny 2 years ago Sheary was the LW for Sid. Had his injury in March and has not played with the same confidence since.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby steelershark on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Hatrick wrote:
steelershark wrote:
Hatrick wrote:
steelershark wrote:Does anyone know how Adam Johnson played in WBS? he was considered a good prospect coming out of college. Can he play a 4th line center in the NHL? Move Brassard to LW2, Sheehan to 3C and Johnson to 4C. LInes could be: Guetz- Sid- Horny
Brassard-Geno- Sprong
Rust-Sheehan-Phil
ZAR-Johnson-?

guessing in that lineup you are already dealing away hagelin and sheary? and already flipped rust from rw to lw


Yes Hagelin and Rust are similar players, but Rust would be less expensive, with the ability to play both sides. To me, its either Sheary or Guetz, and I would go with Guetz.

to me sheary vs guentzel is not a debate at all, guentzel is the lw next to sid starting the season unquestionably. sheary if he isn't traded I would put on 3rd line. Hagelin I could see as anywhere from 2nd to 4th line LW if he is still here, in my opinion ideally we could keep him but last year of contract and high cap hit means he could be a trade chip as well. However even if you trade those two I am leaving rust on RW unless something else changes since I feel he is more effective on that side even though he could play LW as well. So I would switch the question marks with rust if sheary and hagelin are both traded without knowing the return.

With Rust on the 4th line it is an awfully expensive 4th, if Sheehan is your center. Rust gives you options that Hagelin does not, so Rust is my choice.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:56 pm

KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?


5 Years of Lucic?? He's already on the decline, that's an easy pass
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby cojac on Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:51 pm

First trade I’d make this summer is with Toronto:
Pit gets LW Matt Martin $2.5 cap hit for 2 more years
Tor gets D Matt Hunwick $2.25 cap hit for 2 more years

Martin was a healthy scratch in Toronto just like Hunwick was here. Toronto picks up $250k per year of Martin’s contract.
Martin would bring a much needed physical presence to the 4th line LW. He can kill some penalties as well. Hunwick played really well for Babcock and wore an “A” in Toronto.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:18 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?


5 Years of Lucic?? He's already on the decline, that's an easy pass


Unless they added Nurse, Klefbom, or Puljujarvi and taking half of Lucic's salary and only wanting Hunwick and Sheary back. :fist:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:58 pm

If Sheary is still on the team next season and Rust isn't I'm not gonna be pleased. That said I don't think Sheary is worthless like alot of people here seem to think.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:17 pm

Malkintent wrote:If Sheary is still on the team next season and Rust isn't I'm not gonna be pleased. That said I don't think Sheary is worthless like alot of people here seem to think.


If someone could show his splits w and w/o Crosby that would be great.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:57 pm

KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

as I said a few times, any trade with lucic involved has to be 50% retained or no deal. The contract is bad enough now let alone in 5 years.

lucic @ 50% is 3mil
plus a decent draft pick or two

for sheary and hunwick
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:12 pm

Hatrick wrote:
KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

as I said a few times, any trade with lucic involved has to be 50% retained or no deal. The contract is bad enough now let alone in 5 years.

lucic @ 50% is 3mil
plus a decent draft pick or two

for sheary and hunwick


Even with those terms, I'm inclined to say pass. Given his lack of speed and skating, Lucic couldn't keep up on this team. $3Mil is a lot to pay someone to eat nachos.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pekkasteele on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:46 pm

IntangibleBeer wrote:
Hatrick wrote:
KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

as I said a few times, any trade with lucic involved has to be 50% retained or no deal. The contract is bad enough now let alone in 5 years.

lucic @ 50% is 3mil
plus a decent draft pick or two

for sheary and hunwick


Even with those terms, I'm inclined to say pass. Given his lack of speed and skating, Lucic couldn't keep up on this team. $3Mil is a lot to pay someone to eat nachos.


To bad, I'd take that job if offered!
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:27 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Malkintent wrote:If Sheary is still on the team next season and Rust isn't I'm not gonna be pleased. That said I don't think Sheary is worthless like alot of people here seem to think.


If someone could show his splits w and w/o Crosby that would be great.

I'd have to find something that shows specific output of Sheary only (not the line as a whole like WOWY charts do, but):

5on5 numbers:
2017-2018 - Sheary with Crosby: CF% 52.73, GF% 51.11, SCF% 50.66, SV% 91.73
2017-2018 - Sheary without Crosby: CF% 51.06, GF% 51.11, SCF% 52.31%, SV% 90.64
2017-2018 - Crosby without Sheary: CF% 57.82, GF% 43.10, SCF% 57.25%, SV% 90.09

2016-2017 - Sheary with Crosby: CF% 53.78, GF% 64.71, SCF% 57.16, SV% 93.39
2016-2017 - Sheary without Crosby: CF% 47.25, GF% 58.82, SCF% 53.34%, SV% 91.86
2016-2017 - Crosby without Sheary: CF% 54.07, GF% 47.37, SCF% 55.65%, SV% 91.11

These numbers for the most part, at least without actually watching the games, seem to debunk the Sheary is only good with Crosby myth.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:54 am

Great analysis. I am a big Sheary fan and have never understood any of the disrespect he gets on this board. He has so many tools that goals don't capture. He isn't elite but there are so few like him with great vision, puck carrying and corner battling skill. I hate the fact that he is included in the trade rumors but I get it is a numbers thing. People defending Rust...why? What did he do the latter part of last year? I am fine if they move on from him.

I'm still sticking to JR not doing anything. He was all talk earlier when they were eliminated but the Caps winning the Cup makes it kind of silly to shake up the roster. We played them better than anyone else did.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby no name on Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:46 am

FLPensFan wrote:
KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

I think Reaves may be a better skater than Lucic. His skating, his cost, his term, and decline in play last year would all be of concern to me. Just to many questions for me to want to take a chance.

Dump Sheary and Hunwick somewhere, and go out and sign Antoine Roussel for 1/3 the price of Lucic contract for the 4th line.


If you needed a net front presence on the PP then Lucic would be your guy, but we got Horney so no need to have Lucic on this squad. His 5 on 5 is weaker now more than ever. Lucic will be traded or bought out before his contract ends.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby stonewizard51 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:32 am

no name wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
KG wrote:Was just spitballing...I know Lucic contract is an albatross. But I think if we were to get him it would add a bit of physical swagger to this team (like Reaves was supposed to do, I know).

Have to wonder if coming back to the east will reinvigorate him and playing on a cup contender etc. that said what if we were able to get rid of our 2 worst contracts...

To Pitt: Lucic plus $2 mill retained making his cap hit $4mill

To Edmonton: Sheary and Hunwick. $5.25mill in cap hit for both however they only have 2 years left.

Edmonton gets out of the bad contract by taking on 2 shorter term contracts but that is offset by them retaining.

Thoughts?

I think Reaves may be a better skater than Lucic. His skating, his cost, his term, and decline in play last year would all be of concern to me. Just to many questions for me to want to take a chance.

Dump Sheary and Hunwick somewhere, and go out and sign Antoine Roussel for 1/3 the price of Lucic contract for the 4th line.


If you needed a net front presence on the PP then Lucic would be your guy, but we got Horney so no need to have Lucic on this squad. His 5 on 5 is weaker now more than ever. Lucic will be traded or bought out before his contract ends.


FWIW sometimes Guentzel also does that plus he has the speed and skill to play with Sid so yeah no need for Lucic.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:47 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Great analysis. I am a big Sheary fan and have never understood any of the disrespect he gets on this board. He has so many tools that goals don't capture. He isn't elite but there are so few like him with great vision, puck carrying and corner battling skill. I hate the fact that he is included in the trade rumors but I get it is a numbers thing. People defending Rust...why? What did he do the latter part of last year? I am fine if they move on from him.

I'm still sticking to JR not doing anything. He was all talk earlier when they were eliminated but the Caps winning the Cup makes it kind of silly to shake up the roster. We played them better than anyone else did.

I'm not against Sheary, but my general positions are LW, 4th line, and bottom pairing defense needs upgraded. To upgrade LW, that means one of Sheary or Hagelin need to be moved. I think moving out Hagelin to get Grabner would be a slight upgrade, but not enough of a change IMO. I would like to see a more consistent LW, or a bigger, more physical LW with skill be brought in. I think that is something that Rutherford was looking at with the Domi trade attempt....he's not bigger, but he plays a grittier game. He battles along the boards, etc.

I expect GMJR to make at least one trade to acquire a forward. Whether he makes a trade to bring one in, and a separate trade to send one out, or same type deal, I do think it will happen. Again, I would love to be able to get Nichuskin's rights from Dallas.

Salary Cap #'s should come out this afternoon or sometime tomorrow, as the NHLPA had a soft deadline of June 18th (today) to give the NHL the cap number (based on whether they are using esrow). I think as soon as that cap number is set, trade talks are going to be through the roof ahead of the draft on Friday. I expect some fireworks Wednesday and Thursday, but if not then, definitely on draft day.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:50 am

We talked about coaches deserving a job a few pages ago........just read this morning that Seattle has hired Dave Tippett as a senior advisor, responsible for helping get the club up and running as well as helping to acquire an AHL team for the future Seattle team. Speculation right now is that once the behind the scenes type work is complete and as they get closer to the expansion draft, Tippett may slide in and become the coach. Seattle locks him up now, gives him a role, and prevents another team from stealing him away.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:58 am

Would anyone do a Brassard plus (pick/prospect) for Max Pacioretty deal? I wondered about this one before, as Montreal is said to want a center for Max. I think overall, Pacioretty has more value than Brassard, and that would require the Penguins kicking in a bit more. If the Penguins did Brassard, Simon, and a late pick for Pacioretty with 33% retained, would you take that deal? Both guys are within a year apart age wise, and both are UFAs next year.

That would leave Sheahan as the 3C, and Penguins would need to acquire a 4C or let guys like Blueger, Bellerive, and Dea battle out for the 4C position.

It sounds a bit enticing, but I would still be leary of the center depth behind Sheahan.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:23 am

FLPensFan wrote:Would anyone do a Brassard plus (pick/prospect) for Max Pacioretty deal? I wondered about this one before, as Montreal is said to want a center for Max. I think overall, Pacioretty has more value than Brassard, and that would require the Penguins kicking in a bit more. If the Penguins did Brassard, Simon, and a late pick for Pacioretty with 33% retained, would you take that deal? Both guys are within a year apart age wise, and both are UFAs next year.

That would leave Sheahan as the 3C, and Penguins would need to acquire a 4C or let guys like Blueger, Bellerive, and Dea battle out for the 4C position.

It sounds a bit enticing, but I would still be leary of the center depth behind Sheahan.


There’s possibilities out there in UFA land for 4c:

Derek Ryan
Fillpulla
Beagle
Plekanec
Letestu

Granted not the sexiest names but could be had for a decent price.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:34 am

murphydump55 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Would anyone do a Brassard plus (pick/prospect) for Max Pacioretty deal? I wondered about this one before, as Montreal is said to want a center for Max. I think overall, Pacioretty has more value than Brassard, and that would require the Penguins kicking in a bit more. If the Penguins did Brassard, Simon, and a late pick for Pacioretty with 33% retained, would you take that deal? Both guys are within a year apart age wise, and both are UFAs next year.

That would leave Sheahan as the 3C, and Penguins would need to acquire a 4C or let guys like Blueger, Bellerive, and Dea battle out for the 4C position.

It sounds a bit enticing, but I would still be leary of the center depth behind Sheahan.


There’s possibilities out there in UFA land for 4c:

Derek Ryan
Fillpulla
Beagle
Plekanec
Letestu

Granted not the sexiest names but could be had for a decent price.

Riley Nash would be another one, although he will likely be overpaid based on the season he had.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pruezy11881 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:39 am

FLPensFan wrote:Would anyone do a Brassard plus (pick/prospect) for Max Pacioretty deal? I wondered about this one before, as Montreal is said to want a center for Max. I think overall, Pacioretty has more value than Brassard, and that would require the Penguins kicking in a bit more. If the Penguins did Brassard, Simon, and a late pick for Pacioretty with 33% retained, would you take that deal? Both guys are within a year apart age wise, and both are UFAs next year.

That would leave Sheahan as the 3C, and Penguins would need to acquire a 4C or let guys like Blueger, Bellerive, and Dea battle out for the 4C position.

It sounds a bit enticing, but I would still be leary of the center depth behind Sheahan.

I guess that depends...

Why would they give up assets to get one unless they know they aren't going to sign one for 'free'? I think if they knew for sure that they were out of the running, for example Stasny (born in Quebec) who is UFA, then I don't think that it's an awful deal per se. Bergevin may ponder that offer.

I don't know if I fully agree with Pacioretty having more value then Brassard. Yeah he scores more goals, and on average will get you 11 more points a season than Brassard. But Brassard's cap hit, being a position of desperate need, to go along with playoff experience, it's hard to estimate know how much extra Pittsburgh would have to throw in to make that deal.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby jreed on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:42 am

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea. On the idea of centers, one thing that does concern me is that the Pens are going to have to pay up for Sheahan and $2M+ is a lot to pay for a 4C. He is a solid player and is defensively responsible but doesn't create a lot of turnovers. Great to have a defensively responsible 3C but Id like to see a banger and grinder for a 4C.

Having said that, Id want to know what the plan was for Sheahan before considering a Brassard trade. I feel like they need to trade one or the other and get a 4C that'll bang around and create some turnovers.
Last edited by jreed on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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