2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pens_CT on Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:04 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
sil wrote:Letang was the MVP of the '16 Finals (not the whole playoffs mind you...just the Finals) in my book. He was extremely steady that series, and made some amazing plays for us. The cup-winning goal was just one example. He also played that Crosby set-up in game 2 OT to absolute perfection. He waited until the very last second as Sheary got into position and put the puck just where it had to be. The play that sticks out the most from that series though was the play he made along the boards in the 3rd period of game 1 when Burns had him pinned. Letang knew Burns didn't have a stick, so he held the puck and kept it just where he could pass it and waited for Bonino to get in front of the net. It was perfectly executed.

None of this takes away from how poorly he played this past Spring.


No doubt that Letang played poorly last year. Murray was inconsistent and played well below the line he established in the previous two playoff runs. Once they got to the playoffs only Sid, Guentzel and Horny provided any offense. Seems like quite a few Penguins can be held responsible for the lack of performance in the playoffs but Letang gets more than his share of the blame.


Well everyone on the team minus Letang and Murray put themselves in-between the puck and the goal.


8-)


Everyone including 81? :pop:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:17 pm

Great58 wrote:
Jim wrote:The person that scored the second goal for a team that won 3-1 is basically the definition of coincidence in hockey terms.

Is that a response to me? Letang had the most points for any Penguin in the Final series, most ice time, and scored the goal that won the game. The empty netter by Hornqvist doesn't happen if Letang doesn't break the tie, Mr. Ornery. It wasn't just some fluke play from an otherwise insignificant player in the series.


None of that males it any less of a coincidence.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:20 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376


Kessel trains with Gary Roberts? But I thought that Kessel was out of shape and lazy?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:52 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376


:shock: :shock:
Phil is training... with Scary Gary! Very good.


The last time he did that he was after he was traded from Toronto.... :?

This is old, but I've just read it. So it's new.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:55 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
penny lane wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Kessel talks... about Tavares and Gary Roberts.

https://twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/10 ... 5459941376


:shock: :shock:
Phil is training... with Scary Gary! Very good.


The last time he did that he was after he was traded from Toronto.... :?

Think he's done it every off season since the trade. Last October-
https://www.nhl.com/penguins/news/kesse ... -291532018
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:20 pm

Jim wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Jim wrote:The person that scored the second goal for a team that won 3-1 is basically the definition of coincidence in hockey terms.

Is that a response to me? Letang had the most points for any Penguin in the Final series, most ice time, and scored the goal that won the game. The empty netter by Hornqvist doesn't happen if Letang doesn't break the tie, Mr. Ornery. It wasn't just some fluke play from an otherwise insignificant player in the series.


None of that males it any less of a coincidence.

I forgot we were in the Cosmos section of LGP.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby pekkasteele on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:59 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:You get your neck operated on, then start a season without any workout leading up to it, and tell me you won't have a bad season. Especially when your calling card in the league has always been conditioning. Pardon me if I think that makes that season an abberation.

And no, neither he nor Murray prevented the Pens from scoring in several games. Too many 0-1 goal games. Many of the defensive breakdowns were due to offensive players not covering (they are responsible for that, you know).


I think some here overestimate preseason a bit, sure, if you miss preseason you will be a bit worse in the first couple of games, or, worst case, months, but regular season is lie 7 months, if the coaches and medical staff cant adjust training and on-ice to help you get in shape, they are idiots... I don't buy in to the BS that one bad preseason will hurt a 7-10 month season with 80+ games, there are LOTS of time to alter how you train to get on track again.

I don't think he had a bad season, he had a Letang season, the -16 season is the adoration here, where he played better than he is, he was not playing worse than he is this season.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:03 am

pekkasteele wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:You get your neck operated on, then start a season without any workout leading up to it, and tell me you won't have a bad season. Especially when your calling card in the league has always been conditioning. Pardon me if I think that makes that season an abberation.

And no, neither he nor Murray prevented the Pens from scoring in several games. Too many 0-1 goal games. Many of the defensive breakdowns were due to offensive players not covering (they are responsible for that, you know).


I think some here overestimate preseason a bit, sure, if you miss preseason you will be a bit worse in the first couple of games, or, worst case, months, but regular season is lie 7 months, if the coaches and medical staff cant adjust training and on-ice to help you get in shape, they are idiots... I don't buy in to the BS that one bad preseason will hurt a 7-10 month season with 80+ games, there are LOTS of time to alter how you train to get on track again.

I don't think he had a bad season, he had a Letang season, the -16 season is the adoration here, where he played better than he is, he was not playing worse than he is this season.

It wasn't just the preseason. It was the entire offseason. Letang starts training almost immediately after the season is over. His conditioning is a huge part of his game. It's difficult to get back in condition when you are playing games every 2-3 days with many of your off days dedicated to travel.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:36 am

Just read that the Montreal Canadians are going to invite Simon Despres to their camp.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:54 am

penny lane wrote:Just read that the Montreal Canadians are going to invite Simon Despres to their camp.

:thumb: Good for him. He deserves another shot. Hope all his concussion issues are behind him.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:07 am

FLPensFan wrote:
penny lane wrote:Just read that the Montreal Canadians are going to invite Simon Despres to their camp.

:thumb: Good for him. He deserves another shot. Hope all his concussion issues are behind him.

I wouldn't have minded him. Rikkola is intriguing but a question mark. Elliot was a high pick has a season's worth of NHL experience. But he's played in Europe since 2015-16. Maybe he's serviceable in a callup,maybe not. All the others are question marks as well.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:24 pm

Somebody on Twitter was saying the rumored Rangers deal was for Valeri Kamensky and Jan Hlvac.

WRONG THREAD... :cry:
Last edited by FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm

Hellebuyck gets 6 years, $6.167 aav? Murray's gonna be one wealthy goalie.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:58 pm

NHLPA has released schedule for arbitration hearings. Jamie Oleksiak set for a July 28th hearing date. Would have to think talks get more serious over the next week.

https://www.nhlpa.com/news/1-15186/2018-salary-arbitration-schedule
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:06 pm

ville5 wrote:Hellebuyck gets 6 years, $6.167 aav? Murray's gonna be one wealthy goalie.
that partly depends on how well he can rebound from this season, if he improves he could get a lot but if he doesn't than no reason to pay him some insane amount, remember there is also a very good reason we let fleury go when he was making 5.75
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 pm

In it's bid to acquire all the permanently injured or retiring players, Elliott Friedman reports that Arizona is close to acquiring the contract of Marian Hossa from Chicago. Vinnie Hinestroza likely included in the deal to Arizona as compensation for taking on the dead cap hit.

That's now Bolland, Datsyuk (contract finally expired), Hossa....I think Arizona also had the contract of Chris Pronger at one time. Why don't they just get Nathan Horton, Johan Franzen, Clarke MacArthur, and David Clarkson while they are at it. Doesn't look fishy at all that a team that spends of the time just above the cap floor, a team half run by the NHL, and that reportedly comes close to missing payroll at times.....but hey, let's just buy up all the dead contracts. :roll: :roll:

Hockey thriving in the desert. No need to move the team. The kachina jerseys are back. :face:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:21 pm

FLPensFan wrote:In it's bid to acquire all the permanently injured or retiring players, Elliott Friedman reports that Arizona is close to acquiring the contract of Marian Hossa from Chicago. Vinnie Hinestroza likely included in the deal to Arizona as compensation for taking on the dead cap hit.

That's now Bolland, Datsyuk (contract finally expired), Hossa....I think Arizona also had the contract of Chris Pronger at one time. Why don't they just get Nathan Horton, Johan Franzen, Clarke MacArthur, and David Clarkson while they are at it. Doesn't look fishy at all that a team that spends of the time just above the cap floor, a team half run by the NHL, and that reportedly comes close to missing payroll at times.....but hey, let's just buy up all the dead contracts. :roll: :roll:

Hockey thriving in the desert. No need to move the team. The kachina jerseys are back. :face:


Yeah, the NHL needs to stop LTIR and other dead contract transactions Either give the trading team a salary cap penalty of some sorts or make it a rule that LTIR never counts against the cap. Double checked the LTIR rules on the capfriendly website (link below). LTIR to get to the cap floor yet not count to over the cap is inviting teams to circumvent both the upper and lower echelon of the cap rules. It really gives a competitive advantage to not only the team getting the cap relief, but the teams that get extra wins versus the team who refuses to spend to the cap floor in terms of real salary. It totally skews the playoff seeding and, potentially, teams that make/miss the playoffs.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did.


https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

Edit - Trade has been announced and a lot of moving parts. I hope Rick Tocchet has an opt out clause for instances when the franchise just doesn't want to win, because this trade certainly qualifies.

https://www.tsn.ca/blackhawks-trade-hos ... -1.1137581
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Defence21 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:In it's bid to acquire all the permanently injured or retiring players, Elliott Friedman reports that Arizona is close to acquiring the contract of Marian Hossa from Chicago. Vinnie Hinestroza likely included in the deal to Arizona as compensation for taking on the dead cap hit.

That's now Bolland, Datsyuk (contract finally expired), Hossa....I think Arizona also had the contract of Chris Pronger at one time. Why don't they just get Nathan Horton, Johan Franzen, Clarke MacArthur, and David Clarkson while they are at it. Doesn't look fishy at all that a team that spends of the time just above the cap floor, a team half run by the NHL, and that reportedly comes close to missing payroll at times.....but hey, let's just buy up all the dead contracts. :roll: :roll:

Hockey thriving in the desert. No need to move the team. The kachina jerseys are back. :face:


Yeah, the NHL needs to stop LTIR and other dead contract transactions Either give the trading team a salary cap penalty of some sorts or make it a rule that LTIR never counts against the cap. Double checked the LTIR rules on the capfriendly website (link below). LTIR to get to the cap floor yet not count to over the cap is inviting teams to circumvent both the upper and lower echelon of the cap rules. It really gives a competitive advantage to not only the team getting the cap relief, but the teams that get extra wins versus the team who refuses to spend to the cap floor in terms of real salary. It totally skews the playoff seeding and, potentially, teams that make/miss the playoffs.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did.


https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

Edit - Trade has been announced and a lot of moving parts. I hope Rick Tocchet has an opt out clause for instances when the franchise just doesn't want to win, because this trade certainly qualifies.

https://www.tsn.ca/blackhawks-trade-hos ... -1.1137581

I don't think you can simply preclude LTIR players from having a cap hit, as I think it's no different than trading them to shed the contract. What needs to happen is the player needs to retire, or the team needs to suffer the consequences. It's a risk a team takes by signing a long-term deal. Simply trading the contract and a prospect for a low pick or career minor leaguer doesn't cut it.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:53 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:In it's bid to acquire all the permanently injured or retiring players, Elliott Friedman reports that Arizona is close to acquiring the contract of Marian Hossa from Chicago. Vinnie Hinestroza likely included in the deal to Arizona as compensation for taking on the dead cap hit.

That's now Bolland, Datsyuk (contract finally expired), Hossa....I think Arizona also had the contract of Chris Pronger at one time. Why don't they just get Nathan Horton, Johan Franzen, Clarke MacArthur, and David Clarkson while they are at it. Doesn't look fishy at all that a team that spends of the time just above the cap floor, a team half run by the NHL, and that reportedly comes close to missing payroll at times.....but hey, let's just buy up all the dead contracts. :roll: :roll:

Hockey thriving in the desert. No need to move the team. The kachina jerseys are back. :face:


Yeah, the NHL needs to stop LTIR and other dead contract transactions Either give the trading team a salary cap penalty of some sorts or make it a rule that LTIR never counts against the cap. Double checked the LTIR rules on the capfriendly website (link below). LTIR to get to the cap floor yet not count to over the cap is inviting teams to circumvent both the upper and lower echelon of the cap rules. It really gives a competitive advantage to not only the team getting the cap relief, but the teams that get extra wins versus the team who refuses to spend to the cap floor in terms of real salary. It totally skews the playoff seeding and, potentially, teams that make/miss the playoffs.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did.


https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

Edit - Trade has been announced and a lot of moving parts. I hope Rick Tocchet has an opt out clause for instances when the franchise just doesn't want to win, because this trade certainly qualifies.

https://www.tsn.ca/blackhawks-trade-hos ... -1.1137581

I don't think you can simply preclude LTIR players from having a cap hit, as I think it's no different than trading them to shed the contract. What needs to happen is the player needs to retire, or the team needs to suffer the consequences. It's a risk a team takes by signing a long-term deal. Simply trading the contract and a prospect for a low pick or career minor leaguer doesn't cut it.

The problem is, teams suffer a cap hit penalty if the player retires. That is the main rule that needs to be dealt with. Allow a buyout of the contract, so the player still gets money, and allow no cap hit. Need to have some type of process for ensuring the "retirement" is not done as a method to circumvent the cap for a team.

But something definitely needs to change in this realm. It's dumb to force teams to carry the cap hit of a player that can no longer play in the league. Hossa just retired this year, but Horton hasn't played in maybe 3-4 years, Clarkson has played 8 games in 3 years, etc, etc.

I really hope the next lockout fixes a lot of this crap.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby jreed on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:55 pm

I guess I never really thought about the Hossa contract and why teams would want to trade for it. It is simply to get to the cap floor? Is there any other benefit to the receiving team?
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:13 pm

jreed wrote:I guess I never really thought about the Hossa contract and why teams would want to trade for it. It is simply to get to the cap floor? Is there any other benefit to the receiving team?

Cap floor is one, but, the receiving team isn't going to just trade for the problem contract and that's it. They are going to make you kick in something else. So, if they have tons of cap space they don't plan on using and are ok paying the salary, then if they can get extra picks, prospects, or players for taking on the contract, why not do it.....at least, with the loopholes and lack of rules in place today.

To me, it is pretty clear cap circumvention. You are trading away a retired player to free up his cap hit. There should be a rule that LTIR and retired player contracts cannot be traded. Some other solution needs to be created.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:21 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
jreed wrote:I guess I never really thought about the Hossa contract and why teams would want to trade for it. It is simply to get to the cap floor? Is there any other benefit to the receiving team?

Cap floor is one, but, the receiving team isn't going to just trade for the problem contract and that's it. They are going to make you kick in something else. So, if they have tons of cap space they don't plan on using and are ok paying the salary, then if they can get extra picks, prospects, or players for taking on the contract, why not do it.....at least, with the loopholes and lack of rules in place today.

To me, it is pretty clear cap circumvention. You are trading away a retired player to free up his cap hit. There should be a rule that LTIR and retired player contracts cannot be traded. Some other solution needs to be created.

Yeah, except Vinnie Hinostroza isn't much of a payment if that is indeed the exchange. :shrug:
I agree with your sentiment that this allowable circumvention needs addressed in the next contract. Especially since it hasn't benefited the Pens. :lol:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:59 pm

Courtesy tsn-
The Chicago Blackhawks traded Marian Hossa and Vinnie Hinostroza to the Arizona Coyotes on Thursday, parting with a promising young forward in order to clear out a troublesome contract.

The Blackhawks also sent defenceman Jordan Oesterle and a third-round pick in the 2019 draft to the Coyotes for forwards Marcus Kruger, MacKenzie Entwistle and Jordan Maletta, defenceman Andrew Campbell and a fifth-round pick in next year's draft. 
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Malkintent on Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:03 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
penny lane wrote:Just read that the Montreal Canadians are going to invite Simon Despres to their camp.

:thumb: Good for him. He deserves another shot. Hope all his concussion issues are behind him.

I would've much rather taken a chance with Despres than sign Johnson.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby ville5 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:18 pm

CapFriendly

@CapFriendly

It's worth noting that Marian Hossa's contract is insured for 80% of it's value. Meaning that the $1,000,000 in base salary that Hossa is due in each of the next 3 seasons will only cost the #Coyotes $200,000
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