2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:37 pm

Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

You are never going to get all the depth you need over the summer. Roster space, cap space, etc prevents that from happening. When you can pickup a 4M player for added depth for only 1M at the deadline.....you don't have that ability in the summer.

As for the youth, yes, you are correct you would like to youth available to come up and fill in the void, however, with a team like Pittsburgh that has a window that is closer to closing than the beginning, you aren't going to have that youth in high level players. The Penguins prefer to go with more aged veterans than counting on guys like Sprong or a Kapanen to develop over several years. So while the Penguins have had youth over the past few years, it isn't high end youth. Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and Guentzel has been that youth. Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Wilson were/are all best suited for bottom 6 work than top 6 work, and were closer to being out of the organizattion than NHL mainstays.

While trading away the picks isn't great, especially the 1st rounders, the Penguins have done a good job of restocking through trades. Kessel, Brassard, Sheahan, Oleksiak and Cole were all former 1st round picks. While you'd like to see them a little younger, when you are giving up your 1st round picks for guys that have 1st round talent without waiting X years for them to develop, it helps.

You know my stance....I'd rather see the team get a little younger and still be very strong contenders, by making the right types of moves. But I've kind of resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen while Crosby and Malkin are still elite level players.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:18 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

You are never going to get all the depth you need over the summer. Roster space, cap space, etc prevents that from happening. When you can pickup a 4M player for added depth for only 1M at the deadline.....you don't have that ability in the summer.

As for the youth, yes, you are correct you would like to youth available to come up and fill in the void, however, with a team like Pittsburgh that has a window that is closer to closing than the beginning, you aren't going to have that youth in high level players. The Penguins prefer to go with more aged veterans than counting on guys like Sprong or a Kapanen to develop over several years. So while the Penguins have had youth over the past few years, it isn't high end youth. Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and Guentzel has been that youth. Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Wilson were/are all best suited for bottom 6 work than top 6 work, and were closer to being out of the organizattion than NHL mainstays.

While trading away the picks isn't great, especially the 1st rounders, the Penguins have done a good job of restocking through trades. Kessel, Brassard, Sheahan, Oleksiak and Cole were all former 1st round picks. While you'd like to see them a little younger, when you are giving up your 1st round picks for guys that have 1st round talent without waiting X years for them to develop, it helps.

You know my stance....I'd rather see the team get a little younger and still be very strong contenders, by making the right types of moves. But I've kind of resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen while Crosby and Malkin are still elite level players.


That's why I think the Pens would have been best suited to move Letang this off-season and Kessel next offseason. Move players that aren't Crosby and Malkin while they still have value and can be moved for assets that still can help the team win now.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:17 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

You are never going to get all the depth you need over the summer. Roster space, cap space, etc prevents that from happening. When you can pickup a 4M player for added depth for only 1M at the deadline.....you don't have that ability in the summer.

As for the youth, yes, you are correct you would like to youth available to come up and fill in the void, however, with a team like Pittsburgh that has a window that is closer to closing than the beginning, you aren't going to have that youth in high level players. The Penguins prefer to go with more aged veterans than counting on guys like Sprong or a Kapanen to develop over several years. So while the Penguins have had youth over the past few years, it isn't high end youth. Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and Guentzel has been that youth. Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Wilson were/are all best suited for bottom 6 work than top 6 work, and were closer to being out of the organizattion than NHL mainstays.

While trading away the picks isn't great, especially the 1st rounders, the Penguins have done a good job of restocking through trades. Kessel, Brassard, Sheahan, Oleksiak and Cole were all former 1st round picks. While you'd like to see them a little younger, when you are giving up your 1st round picks for guys that have 1st round talent without waiting X years for them to develop, it helps.

You know my stance....I'd rather see the team get a little younger and still be very strong contenders, by making the right types of moves. But I've kind of resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen while Crosby and Malkin are still elite level players.


See though, there is depth (Schultz, Oleksiak, Brassard) that stays and helps the team and depth (Goc, Winnick, Murray) that are merely roster spots. The latter is what I meant. Perhaps I should have been more clear. If you're giving up draft picks for the equivalent of Goc or Rowney or Winnick, your summer was a failure. Those players are a dime a dozen and should be guys from WBS since they don't move the needle much in either direction.

The players that you mentioned (that came from WBS over the past 2 years) are exactly why the team was able to get Schultz, Oleksiak, Brassard. JR didn't waste picks on a veteran to replace Rust, Kuhnhackl, or Wilson. The team gave those guys a shot and filled actual needs later.

I don't think the Pens farm system is as barren as most people think, but I also don't think they need a $7-9M/year player either. I can see Guentzel as a consistent 60+ point a year player over his career. If Sprong can even be as good as Kessel defensively, I think he can be just below Guentzel in terms of production.

I'll bet if you look at Stanley Cup winners since the cap era, I think you'll see the Penguins roster. I think the key is knowing when to trade a Kessel or a Letang and get a few players that fit what they need. When to let a Hagelin or a Brassard go and trust that a Sheahan (who will be a lot cheaper than Brassard) or a Blueger can replace him.

If they surround Malkin/Crosby with guys like Guentzel over the next few years, then 1 or 2 lottery picks and they're a contender again without a full rebuild. Guys like Guentzel will be the vet and the lottery pick superstar will be the 100 point dude. Transition rather than rebuild. Hold on to guys like Kessel or Letang and all of a sudden Guentzel is one of 3 players under 30 in a few years and we're at a complete rebuild.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:29 pm

Henrique signed an extension with Anaheim. 5 years approximately $29mill. Is this a decent comp
For a Brassard contract?

Henrique is younger and better. I would think a small bump for Brass on his next contract is fair. 4 years $5.25 mill per sound about right?

Not sure that contract will be with us! But it’s just a thought...
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:26 pm

KG wrote:Henrique signed an extension with Anaheim. 5 years approximately $29mill. Is this a decent comp
For a Brassard contract?

Henrique is younger and better. I would think a small bump for Brass on his next contract is fair. 4 years $5.25 mill per sound about right?

Not sure that contract will be with us! But it’s just a thought...

I think Brassard would have to go back to being a 60 point player to get that type of money. If you look at his recent history.....he scored 18 goals, 45 points in 2013-2014, which led to the Rangers giving him a 5 year, 25M contract. For 13-14, and the 2 years prior, he was a mid-40's point guy, never eclipsing 20 goals. 5M AAV seemed like an overpayment at the time he was signed.

The first 2 years of his deal, he actually played to a level of his contract value, with 60 points (19 goals) and 58 points (27 goals) the first two years of his 5M AAV contract. He had 39 points in 81 games in his first year in Ottawa, and 46 points in 72 games split OTT/PIT (21 goals).

So, what's the value of a guy who has only eclipsed 20 goals twice in his 8 full seasons (not counting lockout year and his first year playing only 31 games? He turns 31 in September, meaning he'll be close to 32 when he signs a new deal.

I just don't see the evidence to be giving Brassard any more than he's making now. Henrique has actually been pretty consistent mid-40's point player, but he's also had 2 20 goal seasons and 1 30 goal season. He's dealt with some injuries as well, and had 2-3 injury shortened season.

Brassard needs to have a big season to get a raise, IMO. Probably part of the reason he is pushing for more ice time, whether at 3C or top 6 wing.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

This was a pretty darned good team that gave the eventual cup champion a run for their money that has lost very little in the offseason. How much change did you want?

Unless the bottom drops out, which I find highly unlikely, all we'll see at the deadline is a few tweaks.


Just because they gave the Caps a run for their money and didn't change doesn't mean other teams didn't improve. Teams are getting younger and faster and the Pens just need to keep up.

I think a full year of Brassard along adding ZAR from the start of the season, Sprong, and Guentzel's improvement ought to be enough at this point. Unless they can find a clear way to improve the team.

Teams are still trying to catch up to the Pens. You don't make significant changes to a championship-level team. Younger/Faster is only good if you are getting better. I'll bet you you can fill the team with younger/faster, and you'll end up missing the playoffs, because they are missing the "good" part.


Of course getting younger and faster should make the team better, they can certainly do that.

BTW, saying the Pens need to keep up doesn't mean they need to get to the other teams level. It means they need to continue to keep the gap what it has been in recent years. As teams are getting younger and faster, the Pens also need to match them so they don't catch up. I'd say replacing Kuhnhackl and Rowney with ZAR and Sprong accomplishes that for now.

As more and more teams try to get younger and faster, the younger and faster will be of lower and lower quality. We have yet to see if ZAR and Sprong will be better than Kuhnhackl and Rowney. How many of these teams working on younger and faster are really catching the Pens. Speed helped us three seasons ago, but without names like Crosby and Malkin and Kessel and yes, even Letang, that speed would be meaningless. Speed didn't help us as much two seasons ago, and we still won (amazing what Crosby and Malkin and Kessel can do, right?). Last year, we lost to a team that did not have the same speed and youth as us. The teams working on faster and younger like the Maple Leafs and the Devils didn't seem to fare quite as well. Why? I'd guess they're missing players like Crosby and Malkin and Kessel and yes even Letang.

After watching the Caps win last year, how many teams are going to be chasing their style? We could be back to a trapping league in a year or two.

Style changes consistently - it's a copycat league. Great players don't.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:46 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

Yes, we should have an entire NHL-caliber team on our farm club - just in case.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:52 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

You are never going to get all the depth you need over the summer. Roster space, cap space, etc prevents that from happening. When you can pickup a 4M player for added depth for only 1M at the deadline.....you don't have that ability in the summer.

As for the youth, yes, you are correct you would like to youth available to come up and fill in the void, however, with a team like Pittsburgh that has a window that is closer to closing than the beginning, you aren't going to have that youth in high level players. The Penguins prefer to go with more aged veterans than counting on guys like Sprong or a Kapanen to develop over several years. So while the Penguins have had youth over the past few years, it isn't high end youth. Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and Guentzel has been that youth. Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Wilson were/are all best suited for bottom 6 work than top 6 work, and were closer to being out of the organizattion than NHL mainstays.

While trading away the picks isn't great, especially the 1st rounders, the Penguins have done a good job of restocking through trades. Kessel, Brassard, Sheahan, Oleksiak and Cole were all former 1st round picks. While you'd like to see them a little younger, when you are giving up your 1st round picks for guys that have 1st round talent without waiting X years for them to develop, it helps.

You know my stance....I'd rather see the team get a little younger and still be very strong contenders, by making the right types of moves. But I've kind of resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen while Crosby and Malkin are still elite level players.


See though, there is depth (Schultz, Oleksiak, Brassard) that stays and helps the team and depth (Goc, Winnick, Murray) that are merely roster spots. The latter is what I meant. Perhaps I should have been more clear. If you're giving up draft picks for the equivalent of Goc or Rowney or Winnick, your summer was a failure. Those players are a dime a dozen and should be guys from WBS since they don't move the needle much in either direction.

The players that you mentioned (that came from WBS over the past 2 years) are exactly why the team was able to get Schultz, Oleksiak, Brassard. JR didn't waste picks on a veteran to replace Rust, Kuhnhackl, or Wilson. The team gave those guys a shot and filled actual needs later.

I don't think the Pens farm system is as barren as most people think, but I also don't think they need a $7-9M/year player either. I can see Guentzel as a consistent 60+ point a year player over his career. If Sprong can even be as good as Kessel defensively, I think he can be just below Guentzel in terms of production.

I'll bet if you look at Stanley Cup winners since the cap era, I think you'll see the Penguins roster. I think the key is knowing when to trade a Kessel or a Letang and get a few players that fit what they need. When to let a Hagelin or a Brassard go and trust that a Sheahan (who will be a lot cheaper than Brassard) or a Blueger can replace him.

If they surround Malkin/Crosby with guys like Guentzel over the next few years, then 1 or 2 lottery picks and they're a contender again without a full rebuild. Guys like Guentzel will be the vet and the lottery pick superstar will be the 100 point dude. Transition rather than rebuild. Hold on to guys like Kessel or Letang and all of a sudden Guentzel is one of 3 players under 30 in a few years and we're at a complete rebuild.

You don't ever trade a Letang or Kessel unless you can get a better player in return. When you have a team capable of winning the cup this year and the next and the next, you don't trade defensively to keep your team young. You keep your best players. If the trade doesn't garner you a player that immediately makes the team better, you don't make it. Not unless your goal is long-term mediocrity.

I don't care what you think, when Crosby and Malkin retire, this team will see some dark years. Don't be building for those years. Build for now
Last edited by LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Maestro on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:53 pm

I like Brassard and he was looking really good in OTT near the deadline. Didn't seem to be a fit though. I'd move him for Zucker or Patches, then add a C at the deadline if needed.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:54 pm

Maestro wrote:I like Brassard and he was looking really good in OTT near the deadline. Didn't seem to be a fit though. I'd move him for Zucker or Patches, then add a C at the deadline if needed.

He was starting to fit until he got injured. Give him a chance this year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby no name on Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:01 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Maestro wrote:I like Brassard and he was looking really good in OTT near the deadline. Didn't seem to be a fit though. I'd move him for Zucker or Patches, then add a C at the deadline if needed.

He was starting to fit until he got injured. Give him a chance this year.



I agree, lets see what he can do for us before we move him. The nice thing is if you do need to move him he is a center and most teams are looking for center depth so he would be easy to move and get a good return. But If he would work out he would do a lot more help on our roster and if he can play wing give us flexibility on at center when needed.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby penny lane on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:01 am

You don't like paying for flood or earthquake insurance... but you praise all when/if you need it. Sid and Evgeni were relatively healthy last year and fingers-crossed their health continues,
Image
Brassard is a luxury... a nice card to play if out of the line-up.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:47 am

If Brassard is our 3C and can get back to his NY Rangers form, and out of the Guy Boucher offense killing mindset, the Penguins would have probably the deepest group of centers in the league from top to bottom.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust
xSimon

I think that is the best lineup to start the season.
---Sprong isn't going to play on the 1st PP unit....put him in a position to succeed by giving him the ice time he needs to show his skill. If it isn't working early, swap Sprong and Hornqvist, or sub Simon in for Sprong.
---Hornqvist gets 50% of his goal on the PP. He'll still get that #1 PP time, even though he's playing on the 3rd line.
---That 4th line is incredibly defensively responsible, and yet, each of those guys has the ability to put up 30 plus points in a good season.
---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:54 am

FLPensFan wrote:---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


Simon is like a slower, less gifted Scott Wilson to me. I saw absolutely nothing that merited him playing in the NHL. I always had this feeling the Pens were trying to make him look legit so that they could fool another team into trading for him. No one bit so the much more talented Sheary had to go. Pens are going to miss him.

Pens need to stop trying to make Simon a thing.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby itissteeltime on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:06 am

FLPensFan wrote:If Brassard is our 3C and can get back to his NY Rangers form, and out of the Guy Boucher offense killing mindset, the Penguins would have probably the deepest group of centers in the league from top to bottom.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust
xSimon

I think that is the best lineup to start the season.
---Sprong isn't going to play on the 1st PP unit....put him in a position to succeed by giving him the ice time he needs to show his skill. If it isn't working early, swap Sprong and Hornqvist, or sub Simon in for Sprong.
---Hornqvist gets 50% of his goal on the PP. He'll still get that #1 PP time, even though he's playing on the 3rd line.
---That 4th line is incredibly defensively responsible, and yet, each of those guys has the ability to put up 30 plus points in a good season.
---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


I'd go this rout as well, 4 lines that can score.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:13 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


Simon is like a slower, less gifted Scott Wilson to me. I saw absolutely nothing that merited him playing in the NHL. I always had this feeling the Pens were trying to make him look legit so that they could fool another team into trading for him. No one bit so the much more talented Sheary had to go. Pens are going to miss him.

Pens need to stop trying to make Simon a thing.

He had a good 6 or 7 game stretch, and that was about it for me. He wasn't a liability, but he wasn't really doing much outside that one stretch.

Hey, I hope the guy improves and can earn a spot somewhere. But based on the last few games I saw him play, he should not be in the lineup over anybody else right now. Penguins were smart enough to see that with Kuhnhackl and let him walk. As a sub or injury fill in, sure, but not a full 82 games for Simon.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:14 am

itissteeltime wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:If Brassard is our 3C and can get back to his NY Rangers form, and out of the Guy Boucher offense killing mindset, the Penguins would have probably the deepest group of centers in the league from top to bottom.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust
xSimon

I think that is the best lineup to start the season.
---Sprong isn't going to play on the 1st PP unit....put him in a position to succeed by giving him the ice time he needs to show his skill. If it isn't working early, swap Sprong and Hornqvist, or sub Simon in for Sprong.
---Hornqvist gets 50% of his goal on the PP. He'll still get that #1 PP time, even though he's playing on the 3rd line.
---That 4th line is incredibly defensively responsible, and yet, each of those guys has the ability to put up 30 plus points in a good season.
---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


I'd go this rout as well, 4 lines that can score.

I think it is both 4 lines that can score, as well as 4 lines that have a defensively responsible element to them as well. I could see Kessel and Hornqvist swapped as well, because I'm not sure how 2 net crashing guys would work together (ZAR/Hornqvist) on the same line, but, there are some good options moving around wingers on lines 2 and 3. 1st and 4th lines are solid as is.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby jreed on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:35 am

FLPensFan wrote:If Brassard is our 3C and can get back to his NY Rangers form, and out of the Guy Boucher offense killing mindset, the Penguins would have probably the deepest group of centers in the league from top to bottom.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust
xSimon

I think that is the best lineup to start the season.
---Sprong isn't going to play on the 1st PP unit....put him in a position to succeed by giving him the ice time he needs to show his skill. If it isn't working early, swap Sprong and Hornqvist, or sub Simon in for Sprong.
---Hornqvist gets 50% of his goal on the PP. He'll still get that #1 PP time, even though he's playing on the 3rd line.
---That 4th line is incredibly defensively responsible, and yet, each of those guys has the ability to put up 30 plus points in a good season.
---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


Agreed...this is the move sensible lineup. Sprong and Hornqvist can be switched as needed.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Puck-Lurker on Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:26 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


Simon is like a slower, less gifted Scott Wilson to me. I saw absolutely nothing that merited him playing in the NHL. I always had this feeling the Pens were trying to make him look legit so that they could fool another team into trading for him. No one bit so the much more talented Sheary had to go. Pens are going to miss him.

Pens need to stop trying to make Simon a thing.

I'm betting we're getting a lineup with Simon, without Sprong for most of the season. Insert vague reason here for why Sprong isn't playing. And then don't apply same vague reason for Simon playing. Give Sprong every chance to succeed this season and I think he will. #41gamesfor41

Sheary's issue was his cap hit. His contract's too big to keep on the books and resign pieces. Also helped us get rid of Hunwick. I'd have been fine with keeping him around, if Sullivan bothered to place him on LW constantly.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:27 am

sjnhiils wrote:
Steve wrote:
longtimefan wrote:Teddy Bleuger will be interesting to follow. There's no way he makes the team out of camp. He's 6th on the depth chart and has options. Plus, they want him to play. On the other hand, he hasn't taken a shift in the NHL yet. You wouldn't think that's a big deal for #6 on the depth chart, but #3, #4, and #5 are all scheduled to be UFA's next summer. JR says he's NHL ready, and he'll no doubt get some time up here. How much though with 5 guys ahead of him? Somehow, they need to evaluate where he can slot in next season. It will dictate other moves as the Pens will again be faced with filling in the blanks behind Sid and Geno.


Blueger is playing in "Da Beauty league" this summer in Minnesota - Guentzel is playing also. I'll be in Minnesota then so looking forward to seeing both of them play.

https://www.dabeautyleague.com/player-list

Keep an eye on Clayton Phillips (3rd rd 2017) also. He looked really good at prospect camp although the competition will be much tougher here.


Thanks for the head's up, i'll watch for him too. The league is really to raise money for charity primarily and also for the players to get some skating in over the summer. It's 4-4 with almost no hitting, but they do skate at a pretty good pace. Maybe I can post some pics. My sons got a picture with Guentzel last year and some autographs (Byfuglien etc). They got a wry smile out of Matt Read as he was signing one of their Pens hats ha.

It looks like Jake scored 2 in his first game of the tournament. :)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby KG on Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:30 am

FLP I like those lines a lot. It goes with the balanced scoring JR said they want to get back to.

Do you want to send them to Sully for his approval or should I? :)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Great58 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:18 pm

Puck-Lurker wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


Simon is like a slower, less gifted Scott Wilson to me. I saw absolutely nothing that merited him playing in the NHL. I always had this feeling the Pens were trying to make him look legit so that they could fool another team into trading for him. No one bit so the much more talented Sheary had to go. Pens are going to miss him.

Pens need to stop trying to make Simon a thing.

I'm betting we're getting a lineup with Simon, without Sprong for most of the season. Insert vague reason here for why Sprong isn't playing. And then don't apply same vague reason for Simon playing. Give Sprong every chance to succeed this season and I think he will. #41gamesfor41

Sheary's issue was his cap hit. His contract's too big to keep on the books and resign pieces. Also helped us get rid of Hunwick. I'd have been fine with keeping him around, if Sullivan bothered to place him on LW constantly.

I trust GMJR that Sprong will get his playing time to start the season. I don't think Simon will be the issue, unless Sprong falters.
To me, the problem with Sheary was that he had to be paired with Crosby to have any effectiveness. His salary was a function of that success with Crosby, but Sheary went into vacant mode whenever he was off Crosby's wing, and didn't always perform to maintain that first line presence.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:31 pm

Just spit ballin' here since it's been a little dry on here...what would it take to get Bennett from Calgary as I read a blurb that they may not need him? Simon plus picks plus? Don't know if he has any speed or not, so maybe add Hagelin (pains me to say that as I really like him though). He's another first rounder that hasn't quite lived up to expectations so he would be another one for JR's collection. And yes, I know that we're a little limited on cap space.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Hatrick on Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:42 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
itissteeltime wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:If Brassard is our 3C and can get back to his NY Rangers form, and out of the Guy Boucher offense killing mindset, the Penguins would have probably the deepest group of centers in the league from top to bottom.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
ZAR-Brassard-Hornqvist
Cullen-Sheahan-Rust
xSimon

I think that is the best lineup to start the season.
---Sprong isn't going to play on the 1st PP unit....put him in a position to succeed by giving him the ice time he needs to show his skill. If it isn't working early, swap Sprong and Hornqvist, or sub Simon in for Sprong.
---Hornqvist gets 50% of his goal on the PP. He'll still get that #1 PP time, even though he's playing on the 3rd line.
---That 4th line is incredibly defensively responsible, and yet, each of those guys has the ability to put up 30 plus points in a good season.
---Simon is the wildcard. You really have to hope that his usage next year is limited, or he dramatically improves this offseason....but at face value, I see nobody in the lineup that he should be replacing full time. Simon should get his minutes via injury, and subbing in for Cullen (to keep him fresh) and Sprong (if he goes cold).


I'd go this rout as well, 4 lines that can score.

I think it is both 4 lines that can score, as well as 4 lines that have a defensively responsible element to them as well. I could see Kessel and Hornqvist swapped as well, because I'm not sure how 2 net crashing guys would work together (ZAR/Hornqvist) on the same line, but, there are some good options moving around wingers on lines 2 and 3. 1st and 4th lines are solid as is.

IMO the top 3 RWs are all interchangeable in that lineup, kessel I wouldn't mind on the third line(despite the rumors that he wanted to play with malkin) or the second line, sprong I could see on any of first 3, horni I could see on any of the 3. So could flip hornqvist and kessel, or flip sprong and hornqvist depending on what worked.
I agree with plugging in simon to keep Cullen fresh or if somebody(mainly referring to sprong) goes cold.
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