Training camp (finally!)

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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby KG on Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:50 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Puck-Lurker wrote:Riikola is making a serious case for himself for #7D. Made a good effort using the body. Not much else noteworthy going on.

Not even sure if he's not making a case for better than #7. Honestly, if he's seventh best, I'm guessing they'll send him down and keep Ruhwedel up so he gets more playing time. I'm impressed with this guy (was going to say kid, but he's older than Maatta).


Was watching the Sully post game. He was smiling like a butchers dog when asked about Rikola. He was talking about how he plays the way we want to play and mentioned he likes how he doesn’t back down physically. He also said he’s giving the coaching staff some tough decisions to make.

We’ll see !

Nice to have some quality d depth.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:19 am

I know it’s early but if Rikola makes the team does it make Maatta redundant.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Jim on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:15 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:I know it’s early but if Rikola makes the team does it make Maatta redundant.


Is that like how Kessel became redundant this summer because of Sprong?
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:43 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:I know it’s early but if Rikola makes the team does it make Maatta redundant.

Nope.

Riikola looks like he might give Ruhwedel a run for his money this season. But since Riikola is waivers exempt you won't see him with the big club. If a D gets injured he might get called up to see which of him and Ruhwedel will play.

Bottom pair in case of injuries at most for this season.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby ejd43 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:28 pm

Are the pens on tv today??
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby BurghThing on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Local feed on the website (Not that I can find it)
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby ejd43 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:21 pm

BurghThing wrote:Local feed on the website (Not that I can find it)


Thanks
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:42 pm

3-2 loss to DET

To those that wondered, Sprong didn't look like he contributed anything offensively, but he didn't seem to be a liability either.

Nor was he in the lineup.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby penny lane on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:55 am

Puck-Lurker wrote:3-2 loss to DET

To those that wondered, Sprong didn't look like he contributed anything offensively, but he didn't seem to be a liability either.

Nor was he in the lineup.

:scared:
Sprong = getting an electronic shock.
I loved seeing the big bodies in the line up on Saturday. Many got reassigned to WBS, but they have some NHL ready talent with a little seasoning.

Back up goalie- little time as needed works for DeSmith.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby KG on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:59 am

Roster is down to 27 already. One thing I’m happy about is Simon hasn’t been forced to be in be top 6,9 or even 12.

Some interesting roster moves will need to be made. One on defense and a couple at forward. And one in goal I suppose.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby KG on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:18 am

On paper this is a very deep talented team. Haven’t heard many of the pundits picking the Pens either which is always a good thing. If they roll with a roster like this they should be a legit contender again. Stay healthy!

Crosby, Jake, Sprong
Malkin, Hagelin, Kessel
Brassard, Rust, Horny
Sheahan, Cullen, ZAR
X-Grant

That’s real solid balance. Same goes for the D.

Let’s roll!
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby no name on Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:15 pm

Sure hope Sprong can hang on that top line, he will get his shot, he just has to produce and prove he can play with Sid and keep him happy. Sure hope he isn't a Beau Benntte 2.0
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby DelPen on Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:07 am

So waiver exempt players left are Jarry, Riikola and ZAR that are good?

I think all three are better than others still in camp but seems like an easy call to send them down and not risk some other players on waivers yet. There’s still Trotman and Dea too and Grant whenever Sheahan is off of IR.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:20 am

DelPen wrote:So waiver exempt players left are Jarry, Riikola and ZAR that are good?

I think all three are better than others still in camp but seems like an easy call to send them down and not risk some other players on waivers yet. There’s still Trotman and Dea too and Grant whenever Sheahan is off of IR.

Jarry and Riikola deserve to stay, however, I think both are better served going to WBS where they can play every day until an NHL roster injury occurs.
Aston-Reese, to me, should make the roster no matter his waiver status.
Dea and Trotman should both be waived and returned to WBS.

I'm not sold on Grant. Quite honestly, other than his size, I didn't see the need for signing him after Cullen was signed and with Blueger reportedly deserving of an NHL spot already. I know why it happens (because annual playoff coaches are often afraid of putting their faith in too many young players over vets), but, I would rather see Bluger up here as well. Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan, Cullen, Blueger, Dea was enough depth without adding Grant, not to mention both Simon, DiPauli, and Johnson were all centers originally who have been shifted to wing.

In Blueger's case, he just turned 24 years old, had a breakout year in the AHL, had his GM lauding him all summer.....and he is still sitting in the minors. I will be intrigued to see if he gets moved in a deal (although, he won't have a ton of value) or asks to not be retained next year. The Penguins took two steps forward by dumping guys like Rowney and Kuhnhackl, but then brought in Grant and Hayes types, with Grant possibly grabbing an NHL spot. There is a delicate balance between trusting your young players and having too many in the lineup, and the Penguins tend to lean a little too much on vets.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:25 am

And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Pitts on Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:48 am

FLPensFan wrote:And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.

Why do people believe Spring deserves to be Sid's wing? I just don't get that. He needs to earn it. And, if he isn't he should play down the line up.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Pitts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.

Why do people believe Spring deserves to be Sid's wing? I just don't get that. He needs to earn it. And, if he isn't he should play down the line up.

I do not believe he deserves to be Sid's wing, but, I do believe that, if you are going to draft a kid with his upside and deficiencies, give the kid a fair shake. He isn't a 4th liner. Period. You can talk about depth, you can talk about "it will be great for him to play with Cullen," yadda yadda.

Sprong anywhere on the top 3 lines to start the season, I'm 100% fine with. But, giving him 1 game with Crosby and Guentzel, while the rest of the games the Penguins 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th string centers were in the lineup? I really don't think that is giving the kid a fair shake. Sprong didn't score in his preseason games. Neither did Guentzel, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Hornqvist, or Kessel, or Hagelin...... I'm not going to pour over tape, but I'm willing to bet other NHL regulars have been out of position too.

I'll be the first to admit that Sprong is a bust, or, at a minimum, is never going to be good enough positionally for the Penguins......when I see him get a fair shot. And a few practices and preseason games isn't a fair shot. 2-3 shifts a period on a 4th line isn't going to tell them much. Throw the kid into the fire on the 1st or 3rd line for 5-6 games. If you still have an issue, great, I'm all for benching him, sending him to the 4th line, trading him, whatever. I'm also not absolving Sprong of any fault here. By all accounts I have read though, he is putting in the effort. It isn't like Sprong is sitting there in post-game interviews saying hey I played awesome I don't know what everyone else is talking about. He's saying the right things. The Penguins have put so much pressure on him, just like they did Pouliot. What's going to happen is Sprong is going to be so worried about being positionally sound every shift that he isn't going to score for ****.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:15 pm

FLPensFan wrote: ...give the kid a fair shake...


I just threw up in my mouth a little...
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:53 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote: ...give the kid a fair shake...


I just threw up in my mouth a little...

I know, it's upsetting to me too..... :lol:
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Daniel on Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:58 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
DelPen wrote:So waiver exempt players left are Jarry, Riikola and ZAR that are good?

I think all three are better than others still in camp but seems like an easy call to send them down and not risk some other players on waivers yet. There’s still Trotman and Dea too and Grant whenever Sheahan is off of IR.

Jarry and Riikola deserve to stay, however, I think both are better served going to WBS where they can play every day until an NHL roster injury occurs.
Aston-Reese, to me, should make the roster no matter his waiver status.
Dea and Trotman should both be waived and returned to WBS.

I'm not sold on Grant. Quite honestly, other than his size, I didn't see the need for signing him after Cullen was signed and with Blueger reportedly deserving of an NHL spot already. I know why it happens (because annual playoff coaches are often afraid of putting their faith in too many young players over vets), but, I would rather see Bluger up here as well. Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Sheahan, Cullen, Blueger, Dea was enough depth without adding Grant, not to mention both Simon, DiPauli, and Johnson were all centers originally who have been shifted to wing.

In Blueger's case, he just turned 24 years old, had a breakout year in the AHL, had his GM lauding him all summer.....and he is still sitting in the minors. I will be intrigued to see if he gets moved in a deal (although, he won't have a ton of value) or asks to not be retained next year. The Penguins took two steps forward by dumping guys like Rowney and Kuhnhackl, but then brought in Grant and Hayes types, with Grant possibly grabbing an NHL spot. There is a delicate balance between trusting your young players and having too many in the lineup, and the Penguins tend to lean a little too much on vets.


I view Blueger like Jarry or Riikola in that they're best suited for WBS but would be called up as long term replacements for the starter. Blueger seems to just be a late bloomer and will likely be as high as 3C in 2019-20. No way the team signs Brassard and they may or may not sign Sheahan.

I think Grant is like DeSmith or Ruhwedel in that he's best suited for healthy scratch or 1-2 game replacement for minor injuries.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:14 pm

The Pens signed Merle Haggard





(Ryan Haggerty)
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby longtimefan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:30 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.

Why do people believe Spring deserves to be Sid's wing? I just don't get that. He needs to earn it. And, if he isn't he should play down the line up.

I do not believe he deserves to be Sid's wing, but, I do believe that, if you are going to draft a kid with his upside and deficiencies, give the kid a fair shake. He isn't a 4th liner. Period. You can talk about depth, you can talk about "it will be great for him to play with Cullen," yadda yadda.

Sprong anywhere on the top 3 lines to start the season, I'm 100% fine with. But, giving him 1 game with Crosby and Guentzel, while the rest of the games the Penguins 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th string centers were in the lineup? I really don't think that is giving the kid a fair shake. Sprong didn't score in his preseason games. Neither did Guentzel, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Hornqvist, or Kessel, or Hagelin...... I'm not going to pour over tape, but I'm willing to bet other NHL regulars have been out of position too.

I'll be the first to admit that Sprong is a bust, or, at a minimum, is never going to be good enough positionally for the Penguins......when I see him get a fair shot. And a few practices and preseason games isn't a fair shot. 2-3 shifts a period on a 4th line isn't going to tell them much. Throw the kid into the fire on the 1st or 3rd line for 5-6 games. If you still have an issue, great, I'm all for benching him, sending him to the 4th line, trading him, whatever. I'm also not absolving Sprong of any fault here. By all accounts I have read though, he is putting in the effort. It isn't like Sprong is sitting there in post-game interviews saying hey I played awesome I don't know what everyone else is talking about. He's saying the right things. The Penguins have put so much pressure on him, just like they did Pouliot. What's going to happen is Sprong is going to be so worried about being positionally sound every shift that he isn't going to score for ****.


I disagree. What you're suggesting is gifting him a position. As the line up is currently constructed, who among Hornqvist, Kessel, or Rust do you bump? The Pens drafted Sprong as a mid 2nd rounder. Not a blue chip first rounder. Most people drafted in that position never make an impact in the league. You draft him in hopes of tapping that upside, but you don't start moving him up the depth chart based on it alone. It's been said so much, it's redundant, but this kid should have two more option years to develop. Look at Blueger's progression in the last two seasons. That's water under the bridge though. He's going to have to be in the NHL.

It's hard for me to say they haven't given him a fair shot. Tangibly, he hasn't scored, but that's only part of it. You nay not have seen it, but they have the benefit of watching him daily. They placed Sprong on Crosby's right side since day 1 of camp. This is the first tie he's been bumped. I think the coaching staff wants to get ready for the season now. He's had ample opportunity to run with it, and he hasn't. The concession to his talent is the fact he's even in the top 12. That doesn't mean he's a bust. It just means he has to keep the same attitude, and progress his game. He's three years younger than anybody else on the team.But the Pens are loaded with depth, and in a very definite win now mode. It's not so terrible playing with Cullen and Sheahan. He could be out there with Rowney and Kuhnhackel.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby blurryhaze312 on Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:52 pm

longtimefan wrote:The concession to his talent is the fact he's even in the top 12. That doesn't mean he's a bust. It just means he has to keep the same attitude, and progress his game. He's three years younger than anybody else on the team.But the Pens are loaded with depth, and in a very definite win now mode. It's not so terrible playing with Cullen and Sheahan. He could be out there with Rowney and Kuhnhackel.


They might be interested to see how he deals with the adversity of getting bumped in the first place, after having been with Sid all camp so far. Or the adversity of having to adapt his game a little to play the 4th line game when they inevitably shuffle lines during a game in which we just don't have it one night.

Let it play out, I say.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:52 pm

longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.

Why do people believe Spring deserves to be Sid's wing? I just don't get that. He needs to earn it. And, if he isn't he should play down the line up.

I do not believe he deserves to be Sid's wing, but, I do believe that, if you are going to draft a kid with his upside and deficiencies, give the kid a fair shake. He isn't a 4th liner. Period. You can talk about depth, you can talk about "it will be great for him to play with Cullen," yadda yadda.

Sprong anywhere on the top 3 lines to start the season, I'm 100% fine with. But, giving him 1 game with Crosby and Guentzel, while the rest of the games the Penguins 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th string centers were in the lineup? I really don't think that is giving the kid a fair shake. Sprong didn't score in his preseason games. Neither did Guentzel, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Hornqvist, or Kessel, or Hagelin...... I'm not going to pour over tape, but I'm willing to bet other NHL regulars have been out of position too.

I'll be the first to admit that Sprong is a bust, or, at a minimum, is never going to be good enough positionally for the Penguins......when I see him get a fair shot. And a few practices and preseason games isn't a fair shot. 2-3 shifts a period on a 4th line isn't going to tell them much. Throw the kid into the fire on the 1st or 3rd line for 5-6 games. If you still have an issue, great, I'm all for benching him, sending him to the 4th line, trading him, whatever. I'm also not absolving Sprong of any fault here. By all accounts I have read though, he is putting in the effort. It isn't like Sprong is sitting there in post-game interviews saying hey I played awesome I don't know what everyone else is talking about. He's saying the right things. The Penguins have put so much pressure on him, just like they did Pouliot. What's going to happen is Sprong is going to be so worried about being positionally sound every shift that he isn't going to score for ****.


I disagree. What you're suggesting is gifting him a position. As the line up is currently constructed, who among Hornqvist, Kessel, or Rust do you bump? The Pens drafted Sprong as a mid 2nd rounder. Not a blue chip first rounder. Most people drafted in that position never make an impact in the league. You draft him in hopes of tapping that upside, but you don't start moving him up the depth chart based on it alone. It's been said so much, it's redundant, but this kid should have two more option years to develop. Look at Blueger's progression in the last two seasons. That's water under the bridge though. He's going to have to be in the NHL.

It's hard for me to say they haven't given him a fair shot. Tangibly, he hasn't scored, but that's only part of it. You nay not have seen it, but they have the benefit of watching him daily. They placed Sprong on Crosby's right side since day 1 of camp. This is the first tie he's been bumped. I think the coaching staff wants to get ready for the season now. He's had ample opportunity to run with it, and he hasn't. The concession to his talent is the fact he's even in the top 12. That doesn't mean he's a bust. It just means he has to keep the same attitude, and progress his game. He's three years younger than anybody else on the team.But the Pens are loaded with depth, and in a very definite win now mode. It's not so terrible playing with Cullen and Sheahan. He could be out there with Rowney and Kuhnhackel.

That's fine that you disagree. Most people are pretty much firmly on one side or the other. I think my bigger issue, overall, is that the Penguins don't develop players well, at all, and haven't for quite some time. I've said something similar before, but, since 2000, the Penguins list of adequately developed players is quite miniscule. In my mind Matt Murray, Bryan Rust, Alex Goligoski, and Max Talbot are the only players the Penguins have adequately developed....and by that, I mean, reached or exceeded their potential while under the Penguins control. I'm sure there are 2 or 3 cases that can be argued about, but, that's about it for their development. Whether it was a draft miss or a development miss, or both, they've botched guys like Pouliot, Despres, Bennett, and are heading down the same road with Sprong. I think Sprong plays and isn't an issue on half the teams in the league. But because this is the Penguins, and the Crosby/Malkin window is closing, they won't take the time.

It looks like Sullivan's statement about 30 minutes ago says all you need to know, and it is what I alluded to before.....coaches on annual playoff teams don't trust many young players. They'd rather go with vets to increase their employment odds and playoff odds.

From Pittsburgh Penguins official Twitter account: Coach Sullivan on how he’ll make tough lineup decisions: “Performance is always the dictator. There is some development that goes on in this league, but we’re trying to win games. We’re trying to put the Penguins in the best position to win the Stanley Cup.”

Translation, we ain't got time up here for Sprong to learn and develop.
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Re: Training camp (finally!)

Postby Pitts on Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:29 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
longtimefan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:And........Sprong on the 4th line today. Hornqvist on 1st line. Simon on 3rd line LW. ZAR, Grant, and Dea are the 5th line with Sheahan back at practice today (centering the 4th line).

It's one practice, so I'm not going to overreact....but.........WTAF..... I just don't get some of these decisions.

Why do people believe Spring deserves to be Sid's wing? I just don't get that. He needs to earn it. And, if he isn't he should play down the line up.

I do not believe he deserves to be Sid's wing, but, I do believe that, if you are going to draft a kid with his upside and deficiencies, give the kid a fair shake. He isn't a 4th liner. Period. You can talk about depth, you can talk about "it will be great for him to play with Cullen," yadda yadda.

Sprong anywhere on the top 3 lines to start the season, I'm 100% fine with. But, giving him 1 game with Crosby and Guentzel, while the rest of the games the Penguins 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th string centers were in the lineup? I really don't think that is giving the kid a fair shake. Sprong didn't score in his preseason games. Neither did Guentzel, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Hornqvist, or Kessel, or Hagelin...... I'm not going to pour over tape, but I'm willing to bet other NHL regulars have been out of position too.

I'll be the first to admit that Sprong is a bust, or, at a minimum, is never going to be good enough positionally for the Penguins......when I see him get a fair shot. And a few practices and preseason games isn't a fair shot. 2-3 shifts a period on a 4th line isn't going to tell them much. Throw the kid into the fire on the 1st or 3rd line for 5-6 games. If you still have an issue, great, I'm all for benching him, sending him to the 4th line, trading him, whatever. I'm also not absolving Sprong of any fault here. By all accounts I have read though, he is putting in the effort. It isn't like Sprong is sitting there in post-game interviews saying hey I played awesome I don't know what everyone else is talking about. He's saying the right things. The Penguins have put so much pressure on him, just like they did Pouliot. What's going to happen is Sprong is going to be so worried about being positionally sound every shift that he isn't going to score for ****.


I disagree. What you're suggesting is gifting him a position. As the line up is currently constructed, who among Hornqvist, Kessel, or Rust do you bump? The Pens drafted Sprong as a mid 2nd rounder. Not a blue chip first rounder. Most people drafted in that position never make an impact in the league. You draft him in hopes of tapping that upside, but you don't start moving him up the depth chart based on it alone. It's been said so much, it's redundant, but this kid should have two more option years to develop. Look at Blueger's progression in the last two seasons. That's water under the bridge though. He's going to have to be in the NHL.

It's hard for me to say they haven't given him a fair shot. Tangibly, he hasn't scored, but that's only part of it. You nay not have seen it, but they have the benefit of watching him daily. They placed Sprong on Crosby's right side since day 1 of camp. This is the first tie he's been bumped. I think the coaching staff wants to get ready for the season now. He's had ample opportunity to run with it, and he hasn't. The concession to his talent is the fact he's even in the top 12. That doesn't mean he's a bust. It just means he has to keep the same attitude, and progress his game. He's three years younger than anybody else on the team.But the Pens are loaded with depth, and in a very definite win now mode. It's not so terrible playing with Cullen and Sheahan. He could be out there with Rowney and Kuhnhackel.

That's fine that you disagree. Most people are pretty much firmly on one side or the other. I think my bigger issue, overall, is that the Penguins don't develop players well, at all, and haven't for quite some time. I've said something similar before, but, since 2000, the Penguins list of adequately developed players is quite miniscule. In my mind Matt Murray, Bryan Rust, Alex Goligoski, and Max Talbot are the only players the Penguins have adequately developed....and by that, I mean, reached or exceeded their potential while under the Penguins control. I'm sure there are 2 or 3 cases that can be argued about, but, that's about it for their development. Whether it was a draft miss or a development miss, or both, they've botched guys like Pouliot, Despres, Bennett, and are heading down the same road with Sprong. I think Sprong plays and isn't an issue on half the teams in the league. But because this is the Penguins, and the Crosby/Malkin window is closing, they won't take the time.

It looks like Sullivan's statement about 30 minutes ago says all you need to know, and it is what I alluded to before.....coaches on annual playoff teams don't trust many young players. They'd rather go with vets to increase their employment odds and playoff odds.

From Pittsburgh Penguins official Twitter account: Coach Sullivan on how he’ll make tough lineup decisions: “Performance is always the dictator. There is some development that goes on in this league, but we’re trying to win games. We’re trying to put the Penguins in the best position to win the Stanley Cup.”

Translation, we ain't got time up here for Sprong to learn and develop.

Well, that is what WBS is for.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
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