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Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Cow_Master66 on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:39 pm

The fact some want to trade Letang, who is currently one of two d-men who are effective at getting the puck up ice to the forwards, is just silly. In what world does trading the best d-man on the team make this squad better?

Having said that, someone is definitely going to be on the move, and it's going to likely be someone with some roots here based on what JR has stated publicly. Who that is, nobody really knows....The "obvious" candidates are Rust, Hagelin, Brassard, or Maatta. Sprong is likely to be thrown in, and there you have a bunch of guys you are trying to trade at their all-time low. You also have Rust, Haggy, and Brass who are known for stepping up during the playoffs, and not every player comes with that label.

The biggest issue is there's no area strength to deal from to address a weakness. But, is there really a weakness worth the risk of dealing any of these cats? I say no...The only real option I see which would fetch anything of significance would be to move Murray. I say that as a huge Murray fan, but I do think he's the only asset we have which brings us back something significant. It's worth noting we'd also be trading him at an all-time low, but I would be interested to see what a Murray/Brassard/Sprong package would fetch?? :fist:

Lastly, I hate the idea of trading Hagelin...What he does goes way beyond his regular season stats.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:The fact some want to trade Letang, who is currently one of two d-men who are effective at getting the puck up ice to the forwards, is just silly. In what world does trading the best d-man on the team make this squad better?

Having said that, someone is definitely going to be on the move, and it's going to likely be someone with some roots here based on what JR has stated publicly. Who that is, nobody really knows....The "obvious" candidates are Rust, Hagelin, Brassard, or Maatta. Sprong is likely to be thrown in, and there you have a bunch of guys you are trying to trade at their all-time low. You also have Rust, Haggy, and Brass who are known for stepping up during the playoffs, and not every player comes with that label.

The biggest issue is there's no area strength to deal from to address a weakness. But, is there really a weakness worth the risk of dealing any of these cats? I say no...The only real option I see which would fetch anything of significance would be to move Murray. I say that as a huge Murray fan, but I do think he's the only asset we have which brings us back something significant. It's worth noting we'd also be trading him at an all-time low, but I would be interested to see what a Murray/Brassard/Sprong package would fetch?? :fist:

Lastly, I hate the idea of trading Hagelin...What he does goes way beyond his regular season stats.

Problem is pretty much all of the Penguins assets are playing at a low point.....Hagelin, Brassard, Rust, Maatta, Sprong, and Murray are all part of the problem. Add in that Brassard and Hagelin are UFA and that brings down the value more.

Maybe the Penguins could get lucky and trade a player like Maatta and Sprong for a Tanner Pearson plus. I dunno. Will be interesting.

On Hagelin statement, I agree, but, you need help during the regular season, and Rust, Brassard, Cullen, Guentzel, and Sheahan cant all be carried. More guys need to show up during the season.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Jim on Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:02 pm

FLPensFan wrote:The system is void of top end talent. There is 1 potential top 6 prospect in Sprong, with an outside chance of Bellerive or Miletic being a top 6 player. There are no top 4 defense prospects other than Addison. Everything is bottom 6 and bottom pairing. Even giving away picks, that shouldn't be the case. The dont hit on enough picks.

I have also mentioned before, however, is that while they trade 1st rounders away, they tend to acquire 1st round talent via trade. Cole, Sheahan, Oleksiak, Johnson, Brassard, and Kessel were all recent 1st round acquisitions made by the Penguins under Rutherford.

But, what good does top4 d or top 6 forward prospects do you when you wont play them. Rust has struggled mightily this season yet hes gotten multiple attempts with Sid. So the earning the spot stuff for Sprong is utter BS at this point. A game like tonight against a West team is perfect time to try Sprong with Sid.


As someone that had been critical of Sullivan for the last 2+ years... yep.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Risto on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:35 am

This whole narrative that's gaining steam about the Pens suddenly being "old and slow" is overblown. Speed is much more about the quality of your play as a team than it is about actual foot speed. This is the NHL- nearly every player has elite skating ability. When the team is clicking and in a groove, everything looks fast. When the team is scuffling and turning the puck over willy nilly, everything looks disjointed and slow.

As far as the age thing, well, it is what it is. Your 4 core players - Sid, Malkin, Letang, Kessel - are all over 30 now. It's not anyone's fault. Time is a b!tch. Unfortunately you can't just swap those guys out for younger stars. That's why there needs to be an overwhelming focus on doing whatever is necessary to compete for a Cup this year and next.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby brwi on Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:31 am

Risto wrote:This whole narrative that's gaining steam about the Pens suddenly being "old and slow" is overblown. Speed is much more about the quality of your play as a team than it is about actual foot speed. This is the NHL- nearly every player has elite skating ability. When the team is clicking and in a groove, everything looks fast. When the team is scuffling and turning the puck over willy nilly, everything looks disjointed and slow.

:thumb: Exactly right.

Glad you put in "nearly every player has elite skating ability" because Maatta is one of the rare few that do not :D
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Pitts on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:22 pm

Penguins Knight wrote:How about trade Letang? The Penguins do not need to make mistakes of keeping defensemen who five away the pucks and contributes to goals against too long.

Always the dumbest statement ever made. I laugh every time someone posts this. Letang is be far their best, most dynamic defensemen. If you feel that way about Letang, you must hate Malkin and his constant turnovers, right? Trade Malikin with Letang and get a king's ransom in return! LOL
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Pitts on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:27 pm

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:The system is void of top end talent. There is 1 potential top 6 prospect in Sprong, with an outside chance of Bellerive or Miletic being a top 6 player. There are no top 4 defense prospects other than Addison. Everything is bottom 6 and bottom pairing. Even giving away picks, that shouldn't be the case. The dont hit on enough picks.

I have also mentioned before, however, is that while they trade 1st rounders away, they tend to acquire 1st round talent via trade. Cole, Sheahan, Oleksiak, Johnson, Brassard, and Kessel were all recent 1st round acquisitions made by the Penguins under Rutherford.

But, what good does top4 d or top 6 forward prospects do you when you wont play them. Rust has struggled mightily this season yet hes gotten multiple attempts with Sid. So the earning the spot stuff for Sprong is utter BS at this point. A game like tonight against a West team is perfect time to try Sprong with Sid.


As someone that had been critical of Sullivan for the last 2+ years... yep.

Maybe Sid doesn't want Sprong? From what i've watched of Sprong, he doesn't seem to have much hockey sense away from the puck. In the O zone, he's often just standing around waiting for the puck to come to him. Defensively, we all know how that is. Honestly, what do the fans see in Sprong that warrants him being handed top-6 spot? The guy needs to work harder and make more of his opportunities. This team has no time to babysit.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:45 pm

Pitts wrote:
Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:The system is void of top end talent. There is 1 potential top 6 prospect in Sprong, with an outside chance of Bellerive or Miletic being a top 6 player. There are no top 4 defense prospects other than Addison. Everything is bottom 6 and bottom pairing. Even giving away picks, that shouldn't be the case. The dont hit on enough picks.

I have also mentioned before, however, is that while they trade 1st rounders away, they tend to acquire 1st round talent via trade. Cole, Sheahan, Oleksiak, Johnson, Brassard, and Kessel were all recent 1st round acquisitions made by the Penguins under Rutherford.

But, what good does top4 d or top 6 forward prospects do you when you wont play them. Rust has struggled mightily this season yet hes gotten multiple attempts with Sid. So the earning the spot stuff for Sprong is utter BS at this point. A game like tonight against a West team is perfect time to try Sprong with Sid.


As someone that had been critical of Sullivan for the last 2+ years... yep.

Maybe Sid doesn't want Sprong? From what i've watched of Sprong, he doesn't seem to have much hockey sense away from the puck. In the O zone, he's often just standing around waiting for the puck to come to him. Defensively, we all know how that is. Honestly, what do the fans see in Sprong that warrants him being handed top-6 spot? The guy needs to work harder and make more of his opportunities. This team has no time to babysit.

I've said it a few times.....if you are handing Bryan Rust a spot with Sid, or even giving him multiple shots/shifts with Sid, then your reasoning for NOT giving Sprong those same chances goes out the window. Rust has been bad. I understand he looked much better last game, but, Rust has not been good and is strongly believed to be one of the key people Rutherford was sounding off on. But....he has been handed multiple attempts with Crosby this season.

The 2nd issue is, the Penguins centers beyond Crosby and Malkin have been awful this year. Brassard can't stay healthy. Sheahan and Cullen don't produce offense. Yet nobody wants to point fingers at Cullen whatsoever. Maybe the entire bottom 6 is struggling because

Finally, and my biggest issue recently.....look at the numbers Sprong put up with Crosby and Simon last year: http://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20172018&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&rate=n&team=PIT&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-10-04&td=2018-04-08&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478466&p2=8478866&p3=8471675&p4=0&p5=0

Corsi, Shots, Chances, High Danger Chances....those percentages are off the charts. Why on Earth would you not try that line together again, especially mired in a 5 game losing streak?

Sprong has high-end scoring ability. He isn't going to do that playing with low-end centers that can't get him the puck. Saying he got his chance in training camp, in a bunch of meaningless games, is complete BS. Nobody was playing very well in camp and preseason either. Sprong started off very slow, but to me has really come on after his Calgary benching. He's not perfect, but he's not going to improve much playing where he is. I'd give him 5 games or so with Sid. I'd settle for 3.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Pitts on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:10 pm

I actually liked what Sprong did with Malkin in his last game or two. I thought he was finally coming out of his shell there.

I agree about the centers. Brassard has been a huge disappointment. Cullen is just Cullen at this point. I still think Sprong could show a little more even on the lower lines.

I've read that Crosby doesn't mind Simon so much due to the kid's hockey-smarts. That's why i bring up the fact that Crosby maybe doesn't like Sprong all that much. Crosby is very demanding as we all know.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:17 pm

Pitts wrote:Maybe Sid doesn't want Sprong?


Then maybe Sid needs to take a spoonful of cement and harden the **** up. He can't just keep saying that he doesn't want to play with nearly every winger on the team.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:00 pm

For all of the nonsensical crap he has taken, Sheary has more goals than Rust and Simon combined so far. 6 goals without the help of Sid the pointmaker. Sheary had the legs and we shipped him out because people said he couldn't score without Sid. Had to make room for Cullen right?
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:58 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:For all of the nonsensical crap he has taken, Sheary has more goals than Rust and Simon combined so far. 6 goals without the help of Sid the pointmaker. Sheary had the legs and we shipped him out because people said he couldn't score without Sid. Had to make room for Cullen right?

No, he was shipped out for being inconsistent, which, by that standard, means we've held on Hagelin waaaaaaaaaay too long. He was also shipped out to help cleanup one of Rutherford's messes in Matt Hunwick.

Don't worry, it's early. I'm pretty sure Sharee will fade soon enough.
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Re: Pens Need Speed (Younger Legs)...

Postby Lesky on Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:09 am

Rutherford said he wanted a team of speed.

Then signed Maatta to a life contract, added Oleksiak and JJ to another absurd deal.

When you have a young Maatta SLOW as a turtle, and then add JJ who is going to become slower each year, you have a problem. Adding Cullen does not help the cause.
---
I am going to upset some people, but the Penguins won 2 cups despite having Maatta on the team, not because he was on the team.

Guys like Hainsey and Daley somehow managed to be enough to win 2 cups.

---
GMJR should be fired for assembling this slow and overpriced defensive corps. There absolutely no chance this defense and goaltending can beat the Caps in the playoffs, period.
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