So, How did JR do?

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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Great58 on Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:25 pm

Sprong was never going to see reasonable ice time this year, and was a horrible fit for 4th line, and couldn’t go back to the AHL. So they got a serviceable D, cost contained, with term, that can play every night. Seems like a win in this win-now era. I’d have loved him to have honed his game and played an NHL game out of camp this season, but he wasn’t ready. No choice but to move him.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Sigwolf on Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:33 pm

Hatrick wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


He's on a 25 goal pace over 82 games.

Right now he's tied for 4th on the team in goals, in only 44 games. That's how bad Anaheim is.

that's what a lot of people looking at the trade ignore. They see Sprong only has a dozen goals, and that Pettersson has as many/one more point. But Sprong went to a team that for most of the year has been AWFUL. Early in the season the ducks couldn't score and couldn't even defend(Gibson bailed them out a lot). Pettersson went to one of highest scoring teams in the entire league. So when you compare points for the two you have to do so with a grain of salt.

With that in mind I don't think either team lost the trade, both teams traded a player they didn't really have an immediate need for. For somebody they might be able to more effectively use.

What a lot of people also ignore is that Sprong couldn't earn ice time on a recently successful team, and can't earn consistent ice time on an awful team. He's in the top 5 in goals scored on a bad team, yet still being scratched while healthy. Sprong was not living up to expectations here, and continues to not do so in Anaheim. On the other hand, Pettersson has performed at or above expectations for the Pens. Teams that go far in the playoffs tend to have many more serviceable overachievers than talent-laden underachievers, so I know I'm glad which way the Pens went on this trade.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Hatrick on Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:22 pm

Sigwolf wrote:
Hatrick wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


He's on a 25 goal pace over 82 games.

Right now he's tied for 4th on the team in goals, in only 44 games. That's how bad Anaheim is.

that's what a lot of people looking at the trade ignore. They see Sprong only has a dozen goals, and that Pettersson has as many/one more point. But Sprong went to a team that for most of the year has been AWFUL. Early in the season the ducks couldn't score and couldn't even defend(Gibson bailed them out a lot). Pettersson went to one of highest scoring teams in the entire league. So when you compare points for the two you have to do so with a grain of salt.

With that in mind I don't think either team lost the trade, both teams traded a player they didn't really have an immediate need for. For somebody they might be able to more effectively use.

What a lot of people also ignore is that Sprong couldn't earn ice time on a recently successful team, and can't earn consistent ice time on an awful team. He's in the top 5 in goals scored on a bad team, yet still being scratched while healthy. Sprong was not living up to expectations here, and continues to not do so in Anaheim. On the other hand, Pettersson has performed at or above expectations for the Pens. Teams that go far in the playoffs tend to have many more serviceable overachievers than talent-laden underachievers, so I know I'm glad which way the Pens went on this trade.

he couldn't earn ice time in part cause of the position he plays(RW, the deepest position on the pens roster at the beginning of the season), his style is not built for 4th line, the coach doesn't like his type of play style to begin with, and he couldn't be sent back down to the AHL to develop anymore. Didn't leave him many options here other than be traded or scratched. So to get a player who is actually a starter is definitely a win, it might have been a win for the ducks as well in the long run at least. At least with a bad team he should in theory be able to freely develop although I guess that isn't going exactly to plan either.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby no name on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:06 am

So many times watching Sprong he left me scratching my head wondering what the heck he was doing. His defensive play was that bad. He makes Phil look like a Selke candidate.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Penspal on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:27 am

no name wrote:So many times watching Sprong he left me scratching my head wondering what the heck he was doing. His defensive play was that bad. He makes Phil look like a Selke candidate.


You had me up until you used Phil and Selke candidate in the same sentence.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:32 am

The fact that Sprong went to a completely different organization, and ended up playing on the fourth line and healthy scratched, by the GM who traded for him but is now coaching him, tells you everything. The Pens weren't being unfair or holding him back with the way they were coaching him. He's got big problems with the way he goes about playing the game. It's not out of the question that he gets it together, but he may need to be bounced around a bit more and humbled before he finally gets it. It's one thing when a proven performer like a Kessel leaves something to be desired in the way he plays the game, it's a different story when it's an unestablished player who so far hasn't put up any kind of remarkable performance in the NHL.

The Pens did botch Sprong's development, but it has nothing to do with playing him on a fourth line or scratching him. Keeping him up past the 10 game mark in 2015-16 and then sending him back shortly after anyway burned his entire entry level deal and waiver exemption. I guess at least in part he was a casualty of the switch from Johnston to Sullivan. He should be playing in the AHL now but he was forced to stick in the NHL. Granted, a guy with his talent at his age still probably should be establishing that he's an NHL player, but he would have been better served refining his game in the AHL this season.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Jim on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 am

no name wrote:So many times watching Sprong he left me scratching my head wondering what the heck he was doing. His defensive play was that bad. He makes Phil look like a Selke candidate.


Sprong has been a healthy scratch in Anaheim. THAT is how NOT GOOD he is.

People can cry about how he was kept up a couple games too many three years ago, or how he didn't get called up enough last year, or how blah blah blah. But reality is that Pittsburgh didn't want to play him. Reality is that Anaheim is steadily cutting his ice time and scratching him. He had his head up his butt when he was here. The trade sparked him for a couple of weeks, but then his head went right back up his backside.

Sprong plummeted at the draft for a reason.

Anaheim will finish the season with 1 guy at 20 goals, and Sprong, with 13 in 44 games there, is being scratched. That's how NOT GOOD he is as an NHL level player.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby stonewizard51 on Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:37 am

no name wrote:So many times watching Sprong he left me scratching my head wondering what the heck he was doing. His defensive play was that bad. He makes Phil look like a Selke candidate.

I'd watch him when he came to Hershey and sometimes when we'd get to WBS. I felt the same way with the exception of Phil. IMHO he was a one trick pony. His one timer from the slot on the PP was his only attribute. He was a defensive liability for sure and not the best when it came to 5-5 offensively. I'm not that sure why either. He has the potential but it never really materialized with the Pens.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby pekkasteele on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:16 am

Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


What many miss with the trade is how good Pettersson have been making his d-partner better. Look at the chart in the article that No name posted on the privious page:

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/3/21/182 ... sson-fancy

Gudbransson is playing better than ever, Ruhwadel is playing better than with anyone else, and, Johnson started playing better when they played togheter.

For me that trade was a BIG win.

Where would we have Sprong playing today? 4th line instead of Wilson?
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:17 am

pekkasteele wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


What many miss with the trade is how good Pettersson have been making his d-partner better. Look at the chart in the article that No name posted on the privious page:

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/3/21/182 ... sson-fancy

Gudbransson is playing better than ever, Ruhwadel is playing better than with anyone else, and, Johnson started playing better when they played togheter.

For me that trade was a BIG win.

Where would we have Sprong playing today? 4th line instead of Wilson?


That's a very good point, you can look at an individual players skill in Sprongs case and say talent wise we lost that trade but Sprong wasn't going to reach his full potential on the 4th line. It just wasn't going to work for HCMS.

The same can be said for Petterssen, you utilize him in a way that puts him in a position to succeed and it works. See Schultz and now Gudbranson as guys who either need a change of system or change in utilization to right their career.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby longtimefan on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:30 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
pekkasteele wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


What many miss with the trade is how good Pettersson have been making his d-partner better. Look at the chart in the article that No name posted on the privious page:

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/3/21/182 ... sson-fancy

Gudbransson is playing better than ever, Ruhwadel is playing better than with anyone else, and, Johnson started playing better when they played togheter.

For me that trade was a BIG win.

Where would we have Sprong playing today? 4th line instead of Wilson?


That's a very good point, you can look at an individual players skill in Sprongs case and say talent wise we lost that trade but Sprong wasn't going to reach his full potential on the 4th line. It just wasn't going to work for HCMS.

The same can be said for Petterssen, you utilize him in a way that puts him in a position to succeed and it works. See Schultz and now Gudbranson as guys who either need a change of system or change in utilization to right their career.


People tend to dismiss Pettersson's part in this, like a throw in to try and salvage the mishandling of our potential star goal scorer. When in reality, he was a higher pick than Sprong a year prior. Who made the team as a 22 year old rookie, who Carlyle said was the best player in their developmental camp. They weren't looking to move on from a mistake. They were taking a swing at Sprong's offensive upside. Pettersson ranks third in most categories among rookie defenseman. He's been a nice pickup in his own right. And his pedigree is every bit as strong as Sprong's. Considering many believed Sprong would bring no more than a 4th or 5th round pick at that stage, I'd say JR did pretty well.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby sirik71 on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:55 am

Sprong still has time, only just 22, to understand and see the game. He has the off season to work on his game. Was not the right fit for a win now team, with everybody having clear cut tasks, but on a rebuilding team he will prove his worth and could become a solid NHL player, being from Holland I really hope so :) Little bit of Dutch in the NHL, yeah! Petterson came and just slotted in, very impressed with his play. But do think that next year this trade will pay dividends for both teams involved.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby no name on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:35 pm

longtimefan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
pekkasteele wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


What many miss with the trade is how good Pettersson have been making his d-partner better. Look at the chart in the article that No name posted on the privious page:

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/3/21/182 ... sson-fancy

Gudbransson is playing better than ever, Ruhwadel is playing better than with anyone else, and, Johnson started playing better when they played togheter.

For me that trade was a BIG win.

Where would we have Sprong playing today? 4th line instead of Wilson?


That's a very good point, you can look at an individual players skill in Sprongs case and say talent wise we lost that trade but Sprong wasn't going to reach his full potential on the 4th line. It just wasn't going to work for HCMS.

The same can be said for Petterssen, you utilize him in a way that puts him in a position to succeed and it works. See Schultz and now Gudbranson as guys who either need a change of system or change in utilization to right their career.


People tend to dismiss Pettersson's part in this, like a throw in to try and salvage the mishandling of our potential star goal scorer. When in reality, he was a higher pick than Sprong a year prior. Who made the team as a 22 year old rookie, who Carlyle said was the best player in their developmental camp. They weren't looking to move on from a mistake. They were taking a swing at Sprong's offensive upside. Pettersson ranks third in most categories among rookie defenseman. He's been a nice pickup in his own right. And his pedigree is every bit as strong as Sprong's. Considering many believed Sprong would bring no more than a 4th or 5th round pick at that stage, I'd say JR did pretty well.


Agreed Petterson has played better than advertised was a great pick up. I don't know why they felt he was expendable, did they think Sprongs upside is that good.

If you just take sprongs ability out of the equation and consider he was riding the bench for us, its like we got Petterson for nothing. Sully was never going to give him a shot on this team in a meaningful roll, it was best to move on.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Henry Hank on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:50 pm

longtimefan wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
pekkasteele wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:For me the Sprong trade was not good. He has a chance at 15 goals this season which is pretty good for a guy that barely plays


What many miss with the trade is how good Pettersson have been making his d-partner better. Look at the chart in the article that No name posted on the privious page:

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/3/21/182 ... sson-fancy

Gudbransson is playing better than ever, Ruhwadel is playing better than with anyone else, and, Johnson started playing better when they played togheter.

For me that trade was a BIG win.

Where would we have Sprong playing today? 4th line instead of Wilson?


That's a very good point, you can look at an individual players skill in Sprongs case and say talent wise we lost that trade but Sprong wasn't going to reach his full potential on the 4th line. It just wasn't going to work for HCMS.

The same can be said for Petterssen, you utilize him in a way that puts him in a position to succeed and it works. See Schultz and now Gudbranson as guys who either need a change of system or change in utilization to right their career.


People tend to dismiss Pettersson's part in this, like a throw in to try and salvage the mishandling of our potential star goal scorer. When in reality, he was a higher pick than Sprong a year prior. Who made the team as a 22 year old rookie, who Carlyle said was the best player in their developmental camp. They weren't looking to move on from a mistake. They were taking a swing at Sprong's offensive upside. Pettersson ranks third in most categories among rookie defenseman. He's been a nice pickup in his own right. And his pedigree is every bit as strong as Sprong's. Considering many believed Sprong would bring no more than a 4th or 5th round pick at that stage, I'd say JR did pretty well.


Agreed. At worst, it always was a fair trade. Pettersson has essentially the same pedigree as Sprong. JR did a great job because he was able to move a rapidly deteriorating asset and bring back a guy of equal talent who fit the team's needs better. Clearly, both players and both teams have gone in very different directions since the trade.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby flame on Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:34 pm

Yes, Sprong is a solid goal scorer. Unfortunately for him he doesn’t do anything else good. Anaheim can’t score and the guys been a healthy scratch. Maybe he will improve in time but this was a clear win for the Pens at this point in time.. especially given the win now situation the Pens are in
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Toolsteelguy on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:25 pm

Could have landed Zuccarello and giving the pens some energy like Hagelin did a couple years ago.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby no name on Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:58 am

The team is still competitive, he made deals that made us better had a good run going into the playoffs. Just hit a team ready to play.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby NJ5934 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:25 am

Our 2nd line center was paid 9.5 million to put up 21 goals, suck the life out of everything with his lazy play costing the team more than a fair share of short handed goals....and finish the season a -25.

JR probably squeezed us into the playoffs by bringing in McCann alone but if you really want to analyze the issues with this team no one should be starting anywhere but #71. He was awful.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Pens4Life on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:05 pm

NJ5934 wrote:Our 2nd line center was paid 9.5 million to put up 21 goals, suck the life out of everything with his lazy play costing the team more than a fair share of short handed goals....and finish the season a -25.

JR probably squeezed us into the playoffs by bringing in McCann alone but if you really want to analyze the issues with this team no one should be starting anywhere but #71. He was awful.


I agree 100%, really really wouldnt mind moving him in offseason.. that wont happen,but..
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby Jim on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:11 pm

Pens4Life wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:Our 2nd line center was paid 9.5 million to put up 21 goals, suck the life out of everything with his lazy play costing the team more than a fair share of short handed goals....and finish the season a -25.

JR probably squeezed us into the playoffs by bringing in McCann alone but if you really want to analyze the issues with this team no one should be starting anywhere but #71. He was awful.


I agree 100%, really really wouldnt mind moving him in offseason.. that wont happen,but..


Vote #3.
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Re: So, How did JR do?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:22 pm

In game 3, my son mentioned Geno's name at some point in the 3rd period and I honestly said back, I forgot he was playing. He may be injured or the long held belief that age would not be his friend may be true. I just don't see the skill set there to improve with age. The turnovers were always there, the skill set to recover from them was not there all season.
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