2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby ville5 on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:57 pm

C'mon GMJR make it rain transactions.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:00 pm

So, having some time to digest what Rutherford said yesterday to Yohe, I have been able to formulate my thoughts a bit. My best way to describe my feelings right now is disappointment. That will be my overall thoughts if the latest GMJR speak is what comes to fruition.

Why disappointment?

I've said it in a few threads....but,not only is this shaping up to a pretty solid top end draft (possibly deep in the 1st 3 rounds), but this may be one of the most active offseason for trades in years. It's all talk until moves are actually made. I'm not going to list all the teams again, but there are a good dozen teams that either have major cap issues (Vegas, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh) heading into next season, have major holes to fill due to departing UFAs (Columbus), or have to move cap space to go after some of these big UFA targets (Florida). There are a lot more teams that I didn't mention.

If ever a scenario was going to setup for the Penguins to gain more draft choices in a deep draft, or move out some aging players like Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang (while they still have a high value) to get some younger mid-20's players that fit the style (whatever that is deemed) that the Penguins want to play, this summer seems to be the best chance to do that.

What really got me thinking this was an article in the Athletic today talking about the Trouba, and different scenarios surrounding the team's RFAs. The writer had Kyle Connor getting an 8M AAV contract, and Laine getting 8.5M AAV, which takes up the bulk of their leftover cap space. He then talked about some different trade scenarios:

- A 1st round pick, a B-prospect, and a bottom pairing type defenseman (likely cheap) is what the Jets writer said is the reported asking price for Trouba.........Would you offer our 2020 1st rounder, Olli Maatta, and any one of Bellerive, Almeida, Angello, etc type (more C-level prospects, with Maatta being a bit better roster player offered)? I sure would if the Jets would take a 2020 instead of 2019 1st.

-Another unlikely, but possible scenario laid out, was trading Nicolas Ehlers. The writer said Laine is the goal scorer, and Paul Maurice prefers Kyle Connor as the top line LW. Ehlers had a down year last year with 37 points in 62 games, but his two prior seasons both had 25 or more goals, and 60 & 64 points. He's only 23, plays mainly LW (reportedly can play some RW too), and has 6 years remaining at 6M AAV.

There just seems to be a lot of possibilities to move some older players, get a bit younger, get guys that play more in line with how this team wants to play, get some more draft choices, etc.

I really hope GMJR is looking around for some of these types of deals, because some of the costs I'm hearing aren't nearly as high as I would expect, and for teams like Vegas and Winnipeg that really have some pressure on them to get under the cap and/or keep their own players with their cap situation, there seem like there are good deals possibly out there.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby pens_CT on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:11 pm

FLPensFan wrote:So, having some time to digest what Rutherford said yesterday to Yohe, I have been able to formulate my thoughts a bit. My best way to describe my feelings right now is disappointment. That will be my overall thoughts if the latest GMJR speak is what comes to fruition.

Why disappointment?

I've said it in a few threads....but,not only is this shaping up to a pretty solid top end draft (possibly deep in the 1st 3 rounds), but this may be one of the most active offseason for trades in years. It's all talk until moves are actually made. I'm not going to list all the teams again, but there are a good dozen teams that either have major cap issues (Vegas, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh) heading into next season, have major holes to fill due to departing UFAs (Columbus), or have to move cap space to go after some of these big UFA targets (Florida). There are a lot more teams that I didn't mention.

If ever a scenario was going to setup for the Penguins to gain more draft choices in a deep draft, or move out some aging players like Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang (while they still have a high value) to get some younger mid-20's players that fit the style (whatever that is deemed) that the Penguins want to play, this summer seems to be the best chance to do that.

What really got me thinking this was an article in the Athletic today talking about the Trouba, and different scenarios surrounding the team's RFAs. The writer had Kyle Connor getting an 8M AAV contract, and Laine getting 8.5M AAV, which takes up the bulk of their leftover cap space. He then talked about some different trade scenarios:

- A 1st round pick, a B-prospect, and a bottom pairing type defenseman (likely cheap) is what the Jets writer said is the reported asking price for Trouba.........Would you offer our 2020 1st rounder, Olli Maatta, and any one of Bellerive, Almeida, Angello, etc type (more C-level prospects, with Maatta being a bit better roster player offered)? I sure would if the Jets would take a 2020 instead of 2019 1st.

-Another unlikely, but possible scenario laid out, was trading Nicolas Ehlers. The writer said Laine is the goal scorer, and Paul Maurice prefers Kyle Connor as the top line LW. Ehlers had a down year last year with 37 points in 62 games, but his two prior seasons both had 25 or more goals, and 60 & 64 points. He's only 23, plays mainly LW (reportedly can play some RW too), and has 6 years remaining at 6M AAV.

There just seems to be a lot of possibilities to move some older players, get a bit younger, get guys that play more in line with how this team wants to play, get some more draft choices, etc.

I really hope GMJR is looking around for some of these types of deals, because some of the costs I'm hearing aren't nearly as high as I would expect, and for teams like Vegas and Winnipeg that really have some pressure on them to get under the cap and/or keep their own players with their cap situation, there seem like there are good deals possibly out there.


If you're trading the 2019 1st round pick+ for Trouba you better get him signed to an extension.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:13 pm

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So, having some time to digest what Rutherford said yesterday to Yohe, I have been able to formulate my thoughts a bit. My best way to describe my feelings right now is disappointment. That will be my overall thoughts if the latest GMJR speak is what comes to fruition.

Why disappointment?

I've said it in a few threads....but,not only is this shaping up to a pretty solid top end draft (possibly deep in the 1st 3 rounds), but this may be one of the most active offseason for trades in years. It's all talk until moves are actually made. I'm not going to list all the teams again, but there are a good dozen teams that either have major cap issues (Vegas, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh) heading into next season, have major holes to fill due to departing UFAs (Columbus), or have to move cap space to go after some of these big UFA targets (Florida). There are a lot more teams that I didn't mention.

If ever a scenario was going to setup for the Penguins to gain more draft choices in a deep draft, or move out some aging players like Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang (while they still have a high value) to get some younger mid-20's players that fit the style (whatever that is deemed) that the Penguins want to play, this summer seems to be the best chance to do that.

What really got me thinking this was an article in the Athletic today talking about the Trouba, and different scenarios surrounding the team's RFAs. The writer had Kyle Connor getting an 8M AAV contract, and Laine getting 8.5M AAV, which takes up the bulk of their leftover cap space. He then talked about some different trade scenarios:

- A 1st round pick, a B-prospect, and a bottom pairing type defenseman (likely cheap) is what the Jets writer said is the reported asking price for Trouba.........Would you offer our 2020 1st rounder, Olli Maatta, and any one of Bellerive, Almeida, Angello, etc type (more C-level prospects, with Maatta being a bit better roster player offered)? I sure would if the Jets would take a 2020 instead of 2019 1st.

-Another unlikely, but possible scenario laid out, was trading Nicolas Ehlers. The writer said Laine is the goal scorer, and Paul Maurice prefers Kyle Connor as the top line LW. Ehlers had a down year last year with 37 points in 62 games, but his two prior seasons both had 25 or more goals, and 60 & 64 points. He's only 23, plays mainly LW (reportedly can play some RW too), and has 6 years remaining at 6M AAV.

There just seems to be a lot of possibilities to move some older players, get a bit younger, get guys that play more in line with how this team wants to play, get some more draft choices, etc.

I really hope GMJR is looking around for some of these types of deals, because some of the costs I'm hearing aren't nearly as high as I would expect, and for teams like Vegas and Winnipeg that really have some pressure on them to get under the cap and/or keep their own players with their cap situation, there seem like there are good deals possibly out there.


If you're trading the 2019 1st round pick+ for Trouba you better get him signed to an extension.

If you are trading a 1st of any year, you better get him signed to an extension.....but, if you read, I specifically said if the Jets would take a 2020 1st......I really don't want this year's 1st to go.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Ericf on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:16 pm

Yeah, the problem I have with a Trouba is the first, and that they can’t take any cap back, which doesn’t work well for the Pens. I don’t think a deal is there unless they’d take Schultz and forego the draft pick. We can’t afford to be giving up any more first round picks. The rumor is that Trouba wants to go to FA and won’t sign long term with anyone. If that’s the case and WPG can’t afford cap back, a team like Detroit or the Isles with cap space is going to get him
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby KG on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:17 pm

Ok it’s off season time. It’s high time For Jr to shut his trap and stop talking about Geno and Phill to the media and start making this team better!
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby pens_CT on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:So, having some time to digest what Rutherford said yesterday to Yohe, I have been able to formulate my thoughts a bit. My best way to describe my feelings right now is disappointment. That will be my overall thoughts if the latest GMJR speak is what comes to fruition.

Why disappointment?

I've said it in a few threads....but,not only is this shaping up to a pretty solid top end draft (possibly deep in the 1st 3 rounds), but this may be one of the most active offseason for trades in years. It's all talk until moves are actually made. I'm not going to list all the teams again, but there are a good dozen teams that either have major cap issues (Vegas, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh) heading into next season, have major holes to fill due to departing UFAs (Columbus), or have to move cap space to go after some of these big UFA targets (Florida). There are a lot more teams that I didn't mention.

If ever a scenario was going to setup for the Penguins to gain more draft choices in a deep draft, or move out some aging players like Kessel, Hornqvist, Letang (while they still have a high value) to get some younger mid-20's players that fit the style (whatever that is deemed) that the Penguins want to play, this summer seems to be the best chance to do that.

What really got me thinking this was an article in the Athletic today talking about the Trouba, and different scenarios surrounding the team's RFAs. The writer had Kyle Connor getting an 8M AAV contract, and Laine getting 8.5M AAV, which takes up the bulk of their leftover cap space. He then talked about some different trade scenarios:

- A 1st round pick, a B-prospect, and a bottom pairing type defenseman (likely cheap) is what the Jets writer said is the reported asking price for Trouba.........Would you offer our 2020 1st rounder, Olli Maatta, and any one of Bellerive, Almeida, Angello, etc type (more C-level prospects, with Maatta being a bit better roster player offered)? I sure would if the Jets would take a 2020 instead of 2019 1st.

-Another unlikely, but possible scenario laid out, was trading Nicolas Ehlers. The writer said Laine is the goal scorer, and Paul Maurice prefers Kyle Connor as the top line LW. Ehlers had a down year last year with 37 points in 62 games, but his two prior seasons both had 25 or more goals, and 60 & 64 points. He's only 23, plays mainly LW (reportedly can play some RW too), and has 6 years remaining at 6M AAV.

There just seems to be a lot of possibilities to move some older players, get a bit younger, get guys that play more in line with how this team wants to play, get some more draft choices, etc.

I really hope GMJR is looking around for some of these types of deals, because some of the costs I'm hearing aren't nearly as high as I would expect, and for teams like Vegas and Winnipeg that really have some pressure on them to get under the cap and/or keep their own players with their cap situation, there seem like there are good deals possibly out there.


If you're trading the 2019 1st round pick+ for Trouba you better get him signed to an extension.

If you are trading a 1st of any year, you better get him signed to an extension.....but, if you read, I specifically said if the Jets would take a 2020 1st......I really don't want this year's 1st to go.


Okay got it. I would assume adding Trouba would make Schultz available, not sure what his value is, but I would assume it's higher than Maatta.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Malkintent on Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:36 pm

I'd be in favor of trading Schultz for Trouba and driving a dump truck full of money up to his house.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:24 am

Malkintent wrote:I'd be in favor of trading Schultz for Trouba and driving a dump truck full of money up to his house.


Well GMJR just said that Schultz extension was close. I cant see a sign and trade.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby ville5 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:36 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I'd be in favor of trading Schultz for Trouba and driving a dump truck full of money up to his house.


Well GMJR just said that Schultz extension was close. I cant see a sign and trade.

Sweet, where'd you see that?
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:36 am

Also, interesting to see Dreger say this

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger believes another veteran could be on the way out.

"Well if it's not Phil Kessel, it will be someone else," Dreger said Tuesday on Insider Trading. "The Pittsburgh Penguins are not starting next season with the same look and the same roster that they finished this season with. There's some speculation that veteran defenceman Kris Letang may potentially be in play. He's got the modified no-trade clause, he's got the no-move clause. He's got three years remaining (in his contract) and a big cap hit of $7.25 million. So there could be interest in Letang.
Last edited by thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:36 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I'd be in favor of trading Schultz for Trouba and driving a dump truck full of money up to his house.


Well GMJR just said that Schultz extension was close. I cant see a sign and trade.


GMJR says a lot of things that end up not being true. Frankly, I wish he'd just keep his mouth shut.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:38 am

Daniel wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Malkintent wrote:I'd be in favor of trading Schultz for Trouba and driving a dump truck full of money up to his house.


Well GMJR just said that Schultz extension was close. I cant see a sign and trade.


GMJR says a lot of things that end up not being true. Frankly, I wish he'd just keep his mouth shut.


I agree completely. When he says one thing and does something completely different he comes across as incompetent
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:03 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
Daniel wrote:GMJR says a lot of things that end up not being true. Frankly, I wish he'd just keep his mouth shut.


I agree completely. When he says one thing and does something completely different he comes across as incompetent


Good example, "I can make a trade right now for a 3C" then go into the season without one. It's like he answers questions or gives information in a snapshot. Without any real plan or strategy for how he wants to build the team. I'm sure he does have a plan, but everything seems to be reactionary over the past couple of years.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:03 am

I'm with FLPensFan here. The past couple days have been truly depressing. If the Pens roll into next season with the same aging tired core of Geno, Kessel, Horny and do not start to try and get some value for these guys clearly in their last good years, the window will be missed. There is no need to destroy the future just because you already won in the past. You don't HAVE to be the Kings and Hawks and get married to guys who need to move on.

This is where a GM earns their worth. Not in populating a couple role players around some elite stars in their prime.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby interstorm on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:28 am

I think the problem is that these younger, high upside players we discuss are available to everyone -- not just (potentially) Pittsburgh. Due to that Kessel's value (which there is value) is deflated to a degree. He's a high profile player on a decent (respectively) contract, but he isn't a major bargain, will not be considered part of any long-term core (wherever he is including here) and won't get better as his ceiling is pretty much where it is. Without all these potential players available it might be a better year to shop him...just there are a lot of possible players available who for one reason or another are a more appealing fit for an organization.

If the Penguins had a deeper pool of prospects I'd be in favor of more or less just dumping Kessel and using other assets to obtain younger impact players. Unfortunately that's not the case (but we won 2 cups with the philosophy of trades so nobody should complain too much). Looking around at teams that can aggressively take advantage of this offseason, I see Philadelphia making some major moves and becoming a much bigger force to recon with in the next few weeks :(
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:30 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:I'm with FLPensFan here. The past couple days have been truly depressing. If the Pens roll into next season with the same aging tired core of Geno, Kessel, Horny and do not start to try and get some value for these guys clearly in their last good years, the window will be missed. There is no need to destroy the future just because you already won in the past. You don't HAVE to be the Kings and Hawks and get married to guys who need to move on.

This is where a GM earns their worth. Not in populating a couple role players around some elite stars in their prime.


I think other than Sid/Geno/maybe Letang, the roster should be either ELC/cheap contracts or guys that can be a top player (Jake, Murray, McCann, Dumoulin, Schultz, even potentially Bjugstad). Problem is, they have too many high contracts for people with minimal production (Rust, Johnson, Maatta, even Hornqvist is paid too much all of a sudden).
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:36 am

interstorm wrote:I think the problem is that these younger, high upside players we discuss are available to everyone -- not just (potentially) Pittsburgh. Due to that Kessel's value (which there is value) is deflated to a degree. He's a high profile player on a decent (respectively) contract, but he isn't a major bargain, will not be considered part of any long-term core (wherever he is including here) and won't get better as his ceiling is pretty much where it is. Without all these potential players available it might be a better year to shop him...just there are a lot of possible players available who for one reason or another are a more appealing fit for an organization.

If the Penguins had a deeper pool of prospects I'd be in favor of more or less just dumping Kessel and using other assets to obtain younger impact players. Unfortunately that's not the case (but we won 2 cups with the philosophy of trades so nobody should complain too much). Looking around at teams that can aggressively take advantage of this offseason, I see Philadelphia making some major moves and becoming a much bigger force to recon with in the next few weeks :(


I see Kessel as the "one guy away" type of player. Teams like Dallas and Arizona have a clear need for a good RW that can push them to the next level of their development. People have talked about Nashville and we've discussed Colorado. Would NJ want him? I agree the teams are limited, but you just need one or two teams with serious intentions to make a trade.

Frankly, 1st, 2nd/3rd, prospect is what I'd want or expect back. If they're doing a 1-1 salary trade, unless the returning player is significantly younger, I'd rather keep Kessel.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Jim on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:41 am

Daniel wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Daniel wrote:GMJR says a lot of things that end up not being true. Frankly, I wish he'd just keep his mouth shut.


I agree completely. When he says one thing and does something completely different he comes across as incompetent


Good example, "I can make a trade right now for a 3C" then go into the season without one. It's like he answers questions or gives information in a snapshot. Without any real plan or strategy for how he wants to build the team. I'm sure he does have a plan, but everything seems to be reactionary over the past couple of years.


Or he knows that if the "reporters" don't get some sort of answers when they ask you things, they get butt-hurt and go on tirades... so he just gives them answers, true or 100% made up, to keep their little talent and giant egos at bay.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Maestro on Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:05 am

Letang to Montreal makes some sense for them.
Trouba in would be nice.

Jack Johnson signing made no sense at the time and makes less sense every day. Something has to happen there.

If there is a taker for Hornqvist, he should go.

The team needs to get younger and certainly needs to get hungrier.

I agree - stop with the stupid press interviews and work - don't be seen again until a significant change has officially been made.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby penny lane on Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:38 am

Hindsight being perfect, I wanted Bonino signed .
Moving on...tick-tock GMJR, 19-20 season upon us.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby Daniel on Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:59 am

Maestro wrote:Letang to Montreal makes some sense for them.
Trouba in would be nice.

Jack Johnson signing made no sense at the time and makes less sense every day. Something has to happen there.

If there is a taker for Hornqvist, he should go.

The team needs to get younger and certainly needs to get hungrier.

I agree - stop with the stupid press interviews and work - don't be seen again until a significant change has officially been made.


When you have 7 defensemen making over $2 million (projecting Pettersson), there is a problem with how your team is setup. Especially when you have a workhorse defensemen. No reason you can't have ELC or small contracts for your bottom pair when Letang is playing 25+ minutes per game.

I think the entire defense corp is a complete JR failure.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby opie22002 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:28 am

I think GMJR has run his course. I’m afraid to say that I think it may be time for a change at the top.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:34 am

Daniel wrote:
Maestro wrote:Letang to Montreal makes some sense for them.
Trouba in would be nice.

Jack Johnson signing made no sense at the time and makes less sense every day. Something has to happen there.

If there is a taker for Hornqvist, he should go.

The team needs to get younger and certainly needs to get hungrier.

I agree - stop with the stupid press interviews and work - don't be seen again until a significant change has officially been made.


When you have 7 defensemen making over $2 million (projecting Pettersson), there is a problem with how your team is setup. Especially when you have a workhorse defensemen. No reason you can't have ELC or small contracts for your bottom pair when Letang is playing 25+ minutes per game.

I think the entire defense corp is a complete JR failure.


To me that's the problem, Letang shouldn't be playing 24 minutes a game and the team knows that. They've tried to go out and get guys to reduce Letang's load but have made things worse.

You are paying two guys in JJ and Maatta more than Letang and both were healthy scratches in the playoffs. That cant happen.
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Re: 2019 LGP Summer Armchair GM Thread

Postby pens_CT on Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:01 pm

penny lane wrote:Hindsight being perfect, I wanted Bonino signed .
Moving on...tick-tock GMJR, 19-20 season upon us.


I think Bonino wanted to more than just a 3C which wasn't going to happen here.
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