Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:30 pm

stonewizard51 wrote:
ville5 wrote:Now official. 5 years, $9 mil per for Kaprizov. Yowza.

Not sure what Guerin is thinking there. Half that would have been more than fair.

I think Kaprizov is worth the money and will not make this look like a bad contract....BUT....there's no way in hell a guy playing in only 55 NHL games should be able to pull down that type of money. Once again, GMs being dumb GMs are going to break the cap system in place. There is an extremely bad precedent being set that guys coming off ELC deals are just altogether skipping bridge deals or reasonable deals. 55 total NHL games.

Those that might want to say "Yeah, but he came to the US at age 23...he's not an 18/19 year old rookie." That was Kaprizov's doing. Minnesota had been trying to get him to come to the US for several years. He couldn't get more money, as there are strict rules of when (age) you sign your first NHL contract how much you can be paid. I love the player. He's incredibly fun to watch, but I don't like gifting him that contract after 1 year.

This reminds me of Ryan Johansen several years ago trying to get Steven Stamkos type money. Johansen and his agent claimed he was on par with Stamkos. Yet, in his first 3 seasons and when his ELC expired, Stamkos had played 243 games, with 119 goals and 232 points. Johansen has never hit 90 points in a season (never hit 80 either). In his first 3 years, he played 189 NHL games, 59 goals, 96 total points. Johansen isn't even playing the same sport, let alone the same ballpark as Stamkos. Instead, Columbus wisely only gave him 4M AAV, which based off the last season of his ELC, was a good deal. The fact that Nashville gave him an 8 year, 8M AAV contract after that was mind blowing. He's never hit 20 goals under that 8M AAV deal, and never been above 70 points (he had a 71 point season with CBJ before coming to NSH).
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Wyopen on Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:12 pm

Rust = $$$$$$$$$$
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:10 pm

Wyopen wrote:Rust = $$$$$$$$$$

This is why this coming offseason is going to be interesting.

1) You have Letang and Malkin that need new contracts.

2) You have Rust that needs a new deal.

3) Is Carter going to stay after this year?

4) Is DeSmith here after his deal expires this year.

A lot of those questions depend on this season. Others depend on other factors. The issue with Rust is, seeing what Hyman got, do you want to give Rust anything close to that. The 5.5M might be ok, but, I'd be way hesitant to give someone like Rust more than 4 years.

I think if Carter still wants to play, the Penguins might be able to re-sign him. They still don't really have anyone for that spot unless Blueger plays lights out and can put up 15 goals and 35 points this season.

If Filip Lindberg does well in the AHL, he could push DeSmith out of a job for about half the cost. Of course, this would likely also need Jarry to not stink in the playoffs to go with 2 low experience goalies again.

Aside from those, the UFA market should be decent this offseason.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Wyopen on Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:40 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:Rust = $$$$$$$$$$

This is why this coming offseason is going to be interesting.

1) You have Letang and Malkin that need new contracts.

2) You have Rust that needs a new deal.

3) Is Carter going to stay after this year?

4) Is DeSmith here after his deal expires this year.

A lot of those questions depend on this season. Others depend on other factors. The issue with Rust is, seeing what Hyman got, do you want to give Rust anything close to that. The 5.5M might be ok, but, I'd be way hesitant to give someone like Rust more than 4 years.

I think if Carter still wants to play, the Penguins might be able to re-sign him. They still don't really have anyone for that spot unless Blueger plays lights out and can put up 15 goals and 35 points this season.

If Filip Lindberg does well in the AHL, he could push DeSmith out of a job for about half the cost. Of course, this would likely also need Jarry to not stink in the playoffs to go with 2 low experience goalies again.

Aside from those, the UFA market should be decent this offseason.


FLPF, after what Kaprizov got, why would Rust “settle” for 5.5? Doesn’t the Kaprizov contract jack up Rust’s value?
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Jim on Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:24 am

Why do the top $ contracts always get discussed as the benchmark as opposed to insanity which is what they are?
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:55 am

Wyopen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:Rust = $$$$$$$$$$

This is why this coming offseason is going to be interesting.

1) You have Letang and Malkin that need new contracts.

2) You have Rust that needs a new deal.

3) Is Carter going to stay after this year?

4) Is DeSmith here after his deal expires this year.

A lot of those questions depend on this season. Others depend on other factors. The issue with Rust is, seeing what Hyman got, do you want to give Rust anything close to that. The 5.5M might be ok, but, I'd be way hesitant to give someone like Rust more than 4 years.

I think if Carter still wants to play, the Penguins might be able to re-sign him. They still don't really have anyone for that spot unless Blueger plays lights out and can put up 15 goals and 35 points this season.

If Filip Lindberg does well in the AHL, he could push DeSmith out of a job for about half the cost. Of course, this would likely also need Jarry to not stink in the playoffs to go with 2 low experience goalies again.

Aside from those, the UFA market should be decent this offseason.


FLPF, after what Kaprizov got, why would Rust “settle” for 5.5? Doesn’t the Kaprizov contract jack up Rust’s value?

The big difference between Kaprizov and Rust is age. Kaprizov is 24 and should be entering his prime years now. Rust is 29 and will likely be exiting his prime years in 2-3 years, which is why anything more than 4 years term at a high AAV is going to be a mistake. Hyman and Rust are the same age and had similar numbers, which is why Hyman is more of a comparable...although Rust had about 25 more points than Hyman over the last 3 seasons.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:47 am

Their team stinks, their captain wants traded...oh sorry, former captain as they stripped the C from him today...however, I must give high marks to Sabres GM Kevyn Adams on his ability to re-sign their RFAs.

Henri Jokiharju, promising young RD, 3 years, 2.5M AAV
Casey Middlestadt, promising young C, 3 years, 2.5M AAV

and now

Rasmus Dahlin, promising established young LD, 3 years, 6M AAV

Adams proves that you don't need to throw out ridiculous $$$ amounts and long term to RFAs. At least someone out there is still doing it right.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Ericf on Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:48 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:Rust = $$$$$$$$$$

This is why this coming offseason is going to be interesting.

1) You have Letang and Malkin that need new contracts.

2) You have Rust that needs a new deal.

3) Is Carter going to stay after this year?

4) Is DeSmith here after his deal expires this year.

A lot of those questions depend on this season. Others depend on other factors. The issue with Rust is, seeing what Hyman got, do you want to give Rust anything close to that. The 5.5M might be ok, but, I'd be way hesitant to give someone like Rust more than 4 years.

I think if Carter still wants to play, the Penguins might be able to re-sign him. They still don't really have anyone for that spot unless Blueger plays lights out and can put up 15 goals and 35 points this season.

If Filip Lindberg does well in the AHL, he could push DeSmith out of a job for about half the cost. Of course, this would likely also need Jarry to not stink in the playoffs to go with 2 low experience goalies again.

Aside from those, the UFA market should be decent this offseason.


FLPF, after what Kaprizov got, why would Rust “settle” for 5.5? Doesn’t the Kaprizov contract jack up Rust’s value?

The big difference between Kaprizov and Rust is age. Kaprizov is 24 and should be entering his prime years now. Rust is 29 and will likely be exiting his prime years in 2-3 years, which is why anything more than 4 years term at a high AAV is going to be a mistake. Hyman and Rust are the same age and had similar numbers, which is why Hyman is more of a comparable...although Rust had about 25 more points than Hyman over the last 3 seasons.


Someone for sure is going to offer Rust a little more than Hyman— either an extra year or $500k more…he’s going to get 5-6 year deal between $5.5 and $6.3 mil AAV….which is why the Pens should look to trade him in season for a first round pick and good prospect if they’re not looking like a Cup contender…who cares if they miss the POs versus another first round loss…recoup some assets for Rust
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Pitts on Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:33 pm

https://theathletic.com/2839514/2021/09 ... ed-article

Just read that article about Ho Sang and his PTO with the Leafs. I feel like the Pens maybe missed the boat here. Wish they had interest in a young player like that who is desperate to turn his career around.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:35 pm

Ericf wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Wyopen wrote:Rust = $$$$$$$$$$

This is why this coming offseason is going to be interesting.

1) You have Letang and Malkin that need new contracts.

2) You have Rust that needs a new deal.

3) Is Carter going to stay after this year?

4) Is DeSmith here after his deal expires this year.

A lot of those questions depend on this season. Others depend on other factors. The issue with Rust is, seeing what Hyman got, do you want to give Rust anything close to that. The 5.5M might be ok, but, I'd be way hesitant to give someone like Rust more than 4 years.

I think if Carter still wants to play, the Penguins might be able to re-sign him. They still don't really have anyone for that spot unless Blueger plays lights out and can put up 15 goals and 35 points this season.

If Filip Lindberg does well in the AHL, he could push DeSmith out of a job for about half the cost. Of course, this would likely also need Jarry to not stink in the playoffs to go with 2 low experience goalies again.

Aside from those, the UFA market should be decent this offseason.


FLPF, after what Kaprizov got, why would Rust “settle” for 5.5? Doesn’t the Kaprizov contract jack up Rust’s value?

The big difference between Kaprizov and Rust is age. Kaprizov is 24 and should be entering his prime years now. Rust is 29 and will likely be exiting his prime years in 2-3 years, which is why anything more than 4 years term at a high AAV is going to be a mistake. Hyman and Rust are the same age and had similar numbers, which is why Hyman is more of a comparable...although Rust had about 25 more points than Hyman over the last 3 seasons.


Someone for sure is going to offer Rust a little more than Hyman— either an extra year or $500k more…he’s going to get 5-6 year deal between $5.5 and $6.3 mil AAV….which is why the Pens should look to trade him in season for a first round pick and good prospect if they’re not looking like a Cup contender…who cares if they miss the POs versus another first round loss…recoup some assets for Rust

I'm almost on the notion they should trade him at the deadline, playoffs or not. It's tough because good RWs are hard to find in the league, but LWs are pretty plentiful. Ideally, you find a skilled top 6 LW that can play RW without too much of a production drop off....OR...you find high quality top 6 LW (Guentzel is one, need to add another one) and use the RW spot to add other elements to your top 6. Crosby needs a physical presence, so, maybe instead of a guy that can score 25 goals and 70 points in Rust, you go out and get a guy who can score 15-20 goals, 40-50 points, but battle in front of the net and win board battles (Is that McGinn...was Hornqvist or Kunitz in the past). And on your 2nd line, you have another guy who has a combination of speed with some physical play who can score 20 goals, 50 points (like Kapanen).

Having high quality top 6 centers and 3-4 high quality top 6 wingers isn't sustainable in today's NHL. You might be able to pull it off for a few seasons, especially if one of those quality guys is on an ELC...but it eventually catches up with you $$$ wise. Teams are better off going with 2 high quality wingers, and 6 3rd line type wingers with different skillsets, that can move up and down the lineup as their abilities are needed.

With a team so devoid of top end prospects, letting Rust walk away without getting something of value doesn't seem like a smart decision...unless you are still kidding yourself that this core is a strong Cup contender.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:24 pm

Evander Kane has been suspended indefinitely by the Sharks. If you didn't see, his wife (or soon to be ex-wife) had filed a suit or criminal complaint against him. Two of the issues she detailed is that he raped her, and that at one point they got into an argument, he took a swing and ended up punching one of his young children.

Innocent until proven guilty, and it is very easy to start a smear campaign against someone...but he has a lot of stuff piling up against him. The betting, the bankruptcy, alleged rape, alleged child abuse, alleged locker room issues, allegedly still gambling (though Kane says he is not).
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:01 am

Looks like former Penguin Josh Archibald is set to be the only unvaccinated player on any of the Canadian teams, and may miss as many as 30 games due to the amount of times he will need to quarantine when Edmonton crosses Canada-US border.

Ken Holland says in July, there were somewhere between 70-90 unvaccinated players, but that number is expected to be in the single digits when the season starts. Mike Smith and Duncan Keith were two of the late vaxers for the Oilers.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/oilers-archibalds-selfish-anti-vaccine-stance-not-worth-risk/
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:02 am

Latest on Jack Eichel saga...

--Eichel stripped of his captaincy

--Eichel fails team physical for start of training camp (this was expected)

--Eichel states he will not have fusion surgery on his back (this is what team doctors are recommending; Eichel's non-team doctors are recommending a different surgery)
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Sigwolf on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:38 pm

Funny, several here were for the Pens making a play for both Kane and Eichel at various times in recent years. Those that voiced hesitation based on reputation and history were marginalized with the standard "give the talented player a chance" excuses. I, for one, am happy the Pens organization had nothing to do with either one of these turds.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:58 pm

Sigwolf wrote:Funny, several here were for the Pens making a play for both Kane and Eichel at various times in recent years. Those that voiced hesitation based on reputation and history were marginalized with the standard "give the talented player a chance" excuses. I, for one, am happy the Pens organization had nothing to do with either one of these turds.

I've wanted Kane here several times because of his ability to score and play a physical game. I really think Wilson, Kane, and Tkachuk are kind of the upper tier of that type of player, and there is a big drop-off after those 3. However, I have always been aware and weary of trading/signing Kane due to his off-ice issues as well as locker room issues.

Eichel, I don't ever recall many truly wanting him here, but I don't think Eichel is a "turd." I don't think he's quite as good as the bar has been set for him, but, he is a player that I would like to see how he does out of the train wreck that is Buffalo. He may not be a guy that is captain material, but, what is your other reasoning for putting him in the "turd" category?
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:07 am

Sigwolf wrote:Funny, several here were for the Pens making a play for both Kane and Eichel at various times in recent years. Those that voiced hesitation based on reputation and history were marginalized with the standard "give the talented player a chance" excuses. I, for one, am happy the Pens organization had nothing to do with either one of these turds.

I'll also add that, Kane has been cleared by the NHL on the accusations that he bet on NHL games and threw games he was playing in. They had a 3rd party firm investigate social media, bankruptcy, and other records and concluded that there was no evidence Kane bet on NHL games. His wife, who made the claims, was given the chance to be part of the investigation (ie show some proof) and she declined to be part of the investigation.

The NHL is now looking into Anna Kane's allegations of rape and striking their daughter. I don't want to downplay her accusations, but, she made some claims about his betting then refused to cooperate in the investigation. I hope they do their due diligence on the rape/abuse claims, but I'm now a bit leary of anything Anna Kane is saying at this point.

Still, the overall drama and situations that Kane puts himself in isn't helping his career.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby ville5 on Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:23 pm

Logan Brown from Ottawa to St. Louis for Zach Sanford.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Posterboy on Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:29 am

OK, sorry if this brings back math word problem nightmares, but assuming the following defense pairs and no trades:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson/Pettersson-Marino/X
Pettersson/Matheson-X/Marino

and a pool of the following players:

POJ
Riikola
Ruhwedel
Freidman
Bartkowski-LH, not sure if he has played on the right side

who do you have as player X plus 7,8,9 and 10? Please show your work and partial credit will be awarded for incomplete answers, unless it consists of a number eating joke. :D
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:23 am

Posterboy wrote:OK, sorry if this brings back math word problem nightmares, but assuming the following defense pairs and no trades:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson/Pettersson-Marino/X
Pettersson/Matheson-X/Marino

and a pool of the following players:

POJ
Riikola
Ruhwedel
Freidman
Bartkowski-LH, not sure if he has played on the right side

who do you have as player X plus 7,8,9 and 10? Please show your work and partial credit will be awarded for incomplete answers, unless it consists of a number eating joke. :D

Option 1:

POJ-Letang
Dumouiln-Marino
Pettersson-Matheson

Option 2:
Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
POJ-Matheson

Option 3:

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-Riikola

Option Sullivan:

Dumouin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Pettersson-Ruhwedel
x-Friedman, Riikola

POJ, Lee, Bartkowski, Fedun, Almari as your 9 through 13.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:48 am

So, I'm trying to track down what "beat reporter" reportedly started this rumor, but there is apparently now an Eichel for Malkin based trade rumor out there, with Malkin, Poulin, Legare, DeSmith types going to Buffalo.

I heard the rumor from someone I trust in Canada, but he clearly states it came from a "beat reporter." Trying to find out who, as I quickly pointed out Malkin is not going to waive his NMC to go play in Buffalo, so this rumor has as much legs as Gretzky or Lemieux getting traded for Eichel.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby KG on Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:34 pm

FLPensFan wrote:So, I'm trying to track down what "beat reporter" reportedly started this rumor, but there is apparently now an Eichel for Malkin based trade rumor out there, with Malkin, Poulin, Legare, DeSmith types going to Buffalo.

I heard the rumor from someone I trust in Canada, but he clearly states it came from a "beat reporter." Trying to find out who, as I quickly pointed out Malkin is not going to waive his NMC to go play in Buffalo, so this rumor has as much legs as Gretzky or Lemieux getting traded for Eichel.


Ha that’s great. Something tells me Malkin wouldn’t sign off on getting traded to Buffalo :)
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Ohio_Pens_fan on Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:37 pm

FLPensFan wrote:So, I'm trying to track down what "beat reporter" reportedly started this rumor, but there is apparently now an Eichel for Malkin based trade rumor out there, with Malkin, Poulin, Legare, DeSmith types going to Buffalo.

I heard the rumor from someone I trust in Canada, but he clearly states it came from a "beat reporter." Trying to find out who, as I quickly pointed out Malkin is not going to waive his NMC to go play in Buffalo, so this rumor has as much legs as Gretzky or Lemieux getting traded for Eichel.


Lemieux for Eichel???? What's the holdup?? When's this happening?
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Jim on Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:56 pm

For Malkin, Poulin, Legare, and DeSmith there better be a heck of a lot more return than just Eichel.
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby Sigwolf on Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:38 pm

Jim wrote:For Malkin, Poulin, Legare, and DeSmith there better be a heck of a lot more return than just Eichel.

I have a better idea... Pens keep Malkin, Poulin, Legare, and DeSmith, and Buf keeps Eichel, straight up. :lol:
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Re: Penguins summer and 21-22 roster decisions

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:54 am

Anybody happen to catch Robin Lehner's tweets today.....hoo boy! He actually started Friday and has ramping up since then. He's essentially been calling out the NHL and NHLPA on the handling of the Jack Eichel situation, and been saying it also goes a lot farther than that:

--It all started with an article in the Buffalo News about Eichel, and the surgery Eichel's doctor is recommending versus what Sabres doctors are recommending and trying to force on Eichel.

--Talked about teams feeding players pills just so they can play sooner/numb pain from injuries so they can play. Specifically said benzodiazepines and ambien have been handed out quite often, and not even by team doctors. Said "teams" were giving him ambien for something, and later when he had his mental health issues his doctors said he probably hasn't had any rem sleep in over 8 years due to all the ambien they were feeding him.

--He specifically called out the Flyers and Alain Vignault, calling him a dinosaur coach that treats players like robots. Literally called for him and other "dinosaurs" to be fired. There were some implications in the comments that Flyers may have badly treated (medically) Nolan Patrick and his concussions.

Now, there is some possibility that there is truth to this AS WELL AS that some of this may be a bi-polar episode bringing some of this on.
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