Red Line Report Updates...

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Red Line Report Updates...

Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:14 pm

The Pens figure to have a top pick, so I figure this is Pens-related...

This Woodlief interview contains bits on Johnson and Kessel, along with Malkin, Letang, and Salmonsson. He also mentions that Malkin wants to be over here next year and the he is really competitive. From 1-31-06...

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/penguin ... odlief.asx

Here is the latest RLR rankings, from 2-23-06...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/c ... line_x.htm
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Postby guiner on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:01 pm

I just don't know how you pass up on a right handed 6-4 210+ defenseman with the skills Eric Johnson supposedly has.

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Postby NJ5934 on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:23 pm

I don't think it's a matter of passing up on Johnson, its about getting what fits best for this team.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens trade down a slot or two and draft Staal. Especially if it meant grabbing another prospect or pick in exchange for the swap.

The reality is that in terms of the future, we are much better prepared on the blueline than anywhere else. Welch, Lannon, Ferholm, Bissonnette, Letang, Goligoski, along with Whitney and Orpik doesn't look bad in a year or two. Aside from that, Chara is an UFA this offseason and what we would be looking for in Johnson in four or five years years could be here in a couple months if CP was so inclinded to pursue him.

What we truely lack though is 1st and 2nd liners to compliment Crosby and Malkin. Armstrong is progressing, but Filewich may be our ONLY legit prospective top liner. That said, if this team is going to compete we need to address this. Moving down a spot or two could fill two of the remaining 3 or four spots on the top lines.
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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:30 pm

Jordan Staal is my pick, most definately! He is big and can fly. If his skills develope to be half as good as his big brothers he will be a lethel winger for Crosby or Malkin.

That defensemen would be great too but I think Jordan Staal is a can't miss prospect and he could very well go on to have the best career out of all of them this draft season. Not only that, trading down to get him could yeild a young, top quality defensemen. It only makes sense to me.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:32 pm

NJ5934 wrote:I don't think it's a matter of passing up on Johnson, its about getting what fits best for this team.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens trade down a slot or two and draft Staal. Especially if it meant grabbing another prospect or pick in exchange for the swap.

The reality is that in terms of the future, we are much better prepared on the blueline than anywhere else. Welch, Lannon, Ferholm, Bissonnette, Letang, Goligoski, along with Whitney and Orpik doesn't look bad in a year or two. Aside from that, Chara is an UFA this offseason and what we would be looking for in Johnson in four or five years years could be here in a couple months if CP was so inclinded to pursue him.

What we truely lack though is 1st and 2nd liners to compliment Crosby and Malkin. Armstrong is progressing, but Filewich may be our ONLY legit prospective top liner. That said, if this team is going to compete we need to address this. Moving down a spot or two could fill two of the remaining 3 or four spots on the top lines.


Excellent points. However the value isn't determined by the Pens depth exclusively. It's determined by the value of a particular position n the league at large.

It's like baseball, if you have 8 left handed starters, you have an amazing amount of trade value.

I'm in the Chuck Noll school of draftig the 'Best athlete availble'
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:11 pm

Jordan Staal is a center.

There should really be no question as to who the Pens pick if Johnson is available. It's at the point where he may end up being the consensus number 1 anyways.

Outside of Johnson, the player I like the most is Backstrom, but he is also a center.
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Postby Pitts on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:13 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:I don't think it's a matter of passing up on Johnson, its about getting what fits best for this team.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens trade down a slot or two and draft Staal. Especially if it meant grabbing another prospect or pick in exchange for the swap.

The reality is that in terms of the future, we are much better prepared on the blueline than anywhere else. Welch, Lannon, Ferholm, Bissonnette, Letang, Goligoski, along with Whitney and Orpik doesn't look bad in a year or two. Aside from that, Chara is an UFA this offseason and what we would be looking for in Johnson in four or five years years could be here in a couple months if CP was so inclinded to pursue him.

What we truely lack though is 1st and 2nd liners to compliment Crosby and Malkin. Armstrong is progressing, but Filewich may be our ONLY legit prospective top liner. That said, if this team is going to compete we need to address this. Moving down a spot or two could fill two of the remaining 3 or four spots on the top lines.


Excellent points. However the value isn't determined by the Pens depth exclusively. It's determined by the value of a particular position n the league at large.

It's like baseball, if you have 8 left handed starters, you have an amazing amount of trade value.

I'm in the Chuck Noll school of draftig the 'Best athlete availble'


The "value" in trading our 1st round pick is dependent upon us winning the draft lottery and who really wants Johnson. If 2 or more teams really feel they want him, the price could get pretty steep. I'd at least leak the news that the Pens would entertain trading the top pick to get the rumor mills churning.
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Postby guiner on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:34 pm

NJ5934 wrote:I don't think it's a matter of passing up on Johnson, its about getting what fits best for this team.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens trade down a slot or two and draft Staal. Especially if it meant grabbing another prospect or pick in exchange for the swap.

The reality is that in terms of the future, we are much better prepared on the blueline than anywhere else. Welch, Lannon, Ferholm, Bissonnette, Letang, Goligoski, along with Whitney and Orpik doesn't look bad in a year or two. Aside from that, Chara is an UFA this offseason and what we would be looking for in Johnson in four or five years years could be here in a couple months if CP was so inclinded to pursue him.

What we truely lack though is 1st and 2nd liners to compliment Crosby and Malkin. Armstrong is progressing, but Filewich may be our ONLY legit prospective top liner. That said, if this team is going to compete we need to address this. Moving down a spot or two could fill two of the remaining 3 or four spots on the top lines.


I don't agree that our defense is ok for the future. I do agree that we could use some scoring help on wing. I think some of that will come from converted centers like Salmonssen and Stone.

However, I'd prefer to address those needs by trading another defenseman, maybe Whitney, Welch etc. and instead having the stud in Johnson. Woodlief says this guy could be the best defenseman in the last 5 years of the draft. You cannot pass that up, but you can use that to bump another dman into a trade for a finishing winger.

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Postby NIN on Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:36 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:Jordan Staal is a center.

There should really be no question as to who the Pens pick if Johnson is available. It's at the point where he may end up being the consensus number 1 anyways.

Outside of Johnson, the player I like the most is Backstrom, but he is also a center.


Hockey isnt the same as baseball and other sports. If your a forward you are a forward and it isnt difficult for a center to play wing or a wing to play center. Are players better at certain sides and what not? Of course, Crosby is most effective at center as im sure Malkin is but I think that if you asked Staal if he would like to play some wing for Crosby and score 50 goals a season im sure he wouldnt mind. Just like Francis never minded playing LW for Lemieux when he was asked to.

In my mind it isnt a big deal in hockey unless your dropping him back to play D or goalie or moving a guy up to forward. Having versitility is a wonderful thing too. What happens when Malking or Crosby get hurt? No problem just move STaal over to center for a few weeks.

Picking the best player is always the wisest move but it would be ideal if they found a great defensemen. I never seen any of these kids play so I dont know but I know that Staal cant be too far ebhind his brother Eric Staal and ES is trully gifted. Jordan Staal is a safe bet.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:04 pm

NIN wrote:Hockey isnt the same as baseball and other sports. If your a forward you are a forward and it isnt difficult for a center to play wing or a wing to play center.


If that's true, then why do you always here guys talking about their natural position and how much more comfortable they are playing there? Most guys will play wherever asked because they want to help the team win, but that doesn't mean it is easy to do.

Can Crosby play wing? Yes, we saw him do so earlier this season. We also have seen how much more effective he is at center since then. If a guy as talented as Crosby has trouble making the switch, then anyone could.

If they make the pick, they should take the best player regardless of position. Their biggest need is a sniper from wither wing, but outside of Frolik (who has been dropping since midseason), there is no one that fits the bill.
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Postby pfim on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:28 pm

If they make the pick, they should take the best player regardless of position.


Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:35 pm

pfim wrote:
If they make the pick, they should take the best player regardless of position.


Ding ding ding. We have a winner.


Woo hoo! Image
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Postby pfim on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:37 pm

NIN wrote:Jordan Staal is my pick, most definately! He is big and can fly. If his skills develope to be half as good as his big brothers he will be a lethel winger for Crosby or Malkin.

That defensemen would be great too but I think Jordan Staal is a can't miss prospect and he could very well go on to have the best career out of all of them this draft season. Not only that, trading down to get him could yeild a young, top quality defensemen. It only makes sense to me.


I think you're vastly overrating the return for trading down 2-3 spots.
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:41 pm

You're not going to get much of anything for trading down this year, especially because there is no big gap between most of the top several players.

As netwolf mentioned, some players can play other positions, but it isn't an easy thing to do neccesarily. However, a lot of times centers end up moving to wing and that transition can be smoother. It really depends on the player.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:42 pm

NIN wrote:I know that Staal cant be too far ebhind his brother Eric Staal and ES is trully gifted. Jordan Staal is a safe bet.


If that's true, what happened to Alain Lemieux, Brett Lindros, and Wayne Primeau? :)
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Postby pfim on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:50 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:You're not going to get much of anything for trading down this year, especially because there is no big gap between most of the top several players.

As netwolf mentioned, some players can play other positions, but it isn't an easy thing to do neccesarily. However, a lot of times centers end up moving to wing and that transition can be smoother. It really depends on the player.


Taking the best player available is almost always the best strategy. Players can be dealt for positions later on, there's no point in drafting a lesser player when you aren't forced to.

The only time a team should be drafting by position of need is when a few players have the same grade, you can choose which one fits your organizational need. If the top rated player was a goaltender and was far ahead of the others, they should take the goaltender (as long as they don't trade Fleury with a future all star for a 3rd liner and a never will be).
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:57 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:As netwolf mentioned, some players can play other positions, but it isn't an easy thing to do neccesarily. However, a lot of times centers end up moving to wing and that transition can be smoother. It really depends on the player.


And you would hope that's something the scouts are looking at with all the centers currently ranked at the top of this draft. Then again, I don't think anyone from this draft is NHL-ready so that's another reason that position shouldn't factor into the pick much. By the time this pick is ready to play, the team needs could be very different.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:00 pm

pfim wrote:The only time a team should be drafting by position of need is when a few players have the same grade, you can choose which one fits your organizational need. If the top rated player was a goaltender and was far ahead of the others, they should take the goaltender (as long as they don't trade Fleury with a future all star for a 3rd liner and a never will be).


That brings to mind another question, perhaps for another thread: how different would this team be if the Pens has drafted Eric Staal instead of Marc-Andre Fleury?

I think I will go start that thread now. :)
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:06 pm

netwolf wrote:That brings to mind another question, perhaps for another thread: how different would this team be if the Pens has drafted Eric Staal instead of Marc-Andre Fleury?

I think I will go start that thread now. :)


Done! Image

Click on the link to weigh in: http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB ... php?t=1003
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