Mark Recchi to Flyers?

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Postby Stoosh on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:14 pm

Addressing some various topics here in this thread...

1. Maybe FlyerNation can help me here. I just don't see the Flyers dealing Downie. I think Clarke likes him and his ability to project into a certain role way-y-y-y-y too much. This kid was tailor-made for a Bobby Clarke-run Flyers squad.

2. Richards is untouchable. Clarke might be more receptive to dealing Carter, even moreso than Downie. But I wouldn't hold my breath for any of the three. I think getting a player back like Branko Radivojevic is much more realistic, although if CP is able to start a bidding war for Recchi's service AND shows a willingness to include a player like Malone, it may entice Clarke into giving up Umberger.

3. On to the two rumors Mark Madden broke yesterday (Recchi & Malone to either Philly for Umberger or Calgary for Leopold). If either of those offers cross my desk, I'm signing off on it in a heartbeat. I'm not even thinking twice, and here's why...

This is no longer about this year for the Pens. It's not even as much about 2006-07 as it is about 2007-08 and beyond. That's what I'm hoping for from Deadline Day this year. Even with Malkin in the fold next year, this team will still have too many holes to be considered a legitimate contender. With all the transition coming in the organization (new ownership, front office pending), this is about using the 06-07 season to start moving forward, whether CP's a part of it or not. At this point, he has to proceed as if he's going to be a part of it, so we'll see how serious he is about sticking around.

That being the case, Mark Recchi's got one year left, tops. And depending on who you talk to, Recchi may or may not be the best guy to have in the locker room. If he's not, his one year left is one year too many. That essentially means we're dealing Malone for either Leopold or Umberger.

Pens fans have been saying for years how the club needs to find itself a solid all-around defenseman in the Wade Redden mold. We're not getting Wade Redden (at least not without losing a Malkin or Fleury-type prospect), so purge that thought from your minds, kids. So we need to find a player who has the chance to develop into that type of player. Jordan Leopold fits that mold. He turns 26 tomorrow (Wednesday) so he's still got some upside. But he's got enough experience at this level that he would instantly bring some credibility to the defensive corps here. At the very least, he'd help balance things out a little more over the six-or-seven man rotation. He's got some work to do to shore up his game in his own end, but again, there's time for that. He's still a young player.

The same general thought goes for Umberger. We've been crying about the club's lack of depth at wing throughout the organization. This problem might be compounded as we've discovered that Ryan Malone might be more effective as a center than as a wing. It takes away from an existing weakness and adds to an existing strength (depth at center). On top of that, the club could add even more depth at center if they take Phil Kessel in the upcoming draft.

Umberger wouldn't solve all the franchise's problems at wing, but he'd be a nice start. If you put him on a wing with Crosby or Malkin, he'd notch a 40-goal season before he turns 26 (he'll be 24 in May).

These rumors are just that, so I'm not going to get into much more about them other than to say I'm hopeful, but I'm not reasonably expecting these to be very true. It seems like a lot for each team to give up in the name of a relatively short-term fix.

Then again, teams in playoff contention get crazy at the deadline so who knows?
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Postby FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:14 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


Boy, the quality of the discourse over there is simply amazing :roll:


Yeah but that happens when it's also an off topic forum.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:22 pm

Burke is the most candid man in NHL hockey. The Ducks are looking for a top 6 forward:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ducks/la-sp-duckrep7mar07,1,7607101.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nhl-ducks

Crazy rumor monger Sun media mentions Ottawa as a potential destination for Malone:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2006/03/07/1476651-sun.html
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:30 pm

Draftnik wrote:Burke is the most candid man in NHL hockey. The Ducks are looking for a top 6 forward:[


Top 6 forward, thy name is Recchi.
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Postby netwolf on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:32 pm

Draftnik wrote:Crazy rumor monger Sun media mentions Ottawa as a potential destination for Malone:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2006/03/07/1476651-sun.html


If Mark Bell is availbale (which I really doubt), they need to at least make an inquiry about price.
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Postby Steve Latin on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:50 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing Chistov in a Pens uni. Perhaps Recchi for Chistov's rights, then throw him on a line with Malkin next season?
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Postby DelPen on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:59 pm

Steve Latin wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing Chistov in a Pens uni. Perhaps Recchi for Chistov's rights, then throw him on a line with Malkin next season?


He's actually playing gor Metallurg this year.

http://www.russianprospects.com/public/ ... d8ae0d5e49

From Russian Prospects where he talks a little about wanting to get back to the NHL but not necessarily with the Ducks. Considering how weak we are at LW he'd be a great fit

If it takes Recchi and Malone to get his rights then I'd do it.
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Postby mnpensfan on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:24 pm

Stoosh wrote:
3. On to the two rumors Mark Madden broke yesterday (Recchi & Malone to either Philly for Umberger or Calgary for Leopold). If either of those offers cross my desk, I'm signing off on it in a heartbeat. I'm not even thinking twice, and here's why...

This is no longer about this year for the Pens. It's not even as much about 2006-07 as it is about 2007-08 and beyond. That's what I'm hoping for from Deadline Day this year. Even with Malkin in the fold next year, this team will still have too many holes to be considered a legitimate contender. With all the transition coming in the organization (new ownership, front office pending), this is about using the 06-07 season to start moving forward, whether CP's a part of it or not. At this point, he has to proceed as if he's going to be a part of it, so we'll see how serious he is about sticking around.

Pens fans have been saying for years how the club needs to find itself a solid all-around defenseman in the Wade Redden mold. We're not getting Wade Redden (at least not without losing a Malkin or Fleury-type prospect), so purge that thought from your minds, kids. So we need to find a player who has the chance to develop into that type of player. Jordan Leopold fits that mold. He turns 26 tomorrow (Wednesday) so he's still got some upside. But he's got enough experience at this level that he would instantly bring some credibility to the defensive corps here. At the very least, he'd help balance things out a little more over the six-or-seven man rotation. He's got some work to do to shore up his game in his own end, but again, there's time for that. He's still a young player.



Because we still need another year or two before we are competitive, this is why I feel we need to draft Eric Johnson if we have the chance. I've read alot of posts about people saying we need somebody like Kessel who many have claimed can step right in and be the scoring wing on Sid's line (I feel he needs another season at Minnesota, but none the less....) Drafting Johnson this year and having him play a year, maybe two at Minnesota would put him about where we need him to step in. During the Hurricanes game, Lange mentioned how the Canes were considering possibly signing Jack Johnson after the NCAA's for some defensive depth for the playoffs after his freshman season at Michigan. The same Jack Johnson that Eric Johnson outshown in the WJC. I'm not saying the same will happen with Eric, but he's got all the physical tools already and just needs some seasoning at the college level. He's a gem that I feel we can't let pass us by if we have the chance.......
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Postby Jesse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:33 pm

Tikkanen wrote:
Steve Latin wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing Chistov in a Pens uni. Perhaps Recchi for Chistov's rights, then throw him on a line with Malkin next season?


As nice as that is...I'd rather see the pens just sign Sushinsky since he's FA. That way Recchi can be traded for picks...or Jordan Leopold.


Leopold is the move that makes the most sense.

Leopold is offensive, but it's not like the kid is incapable of playing defense. He'd be a nice patch in that leaky blue line we have. Add Welch and maybe some other type of deal for a young, capable Dman, and you're on your way to something.

If I'm the GM of this team, I'm trying to fix this pourous defense. Leopold is a step in the right direction.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:52 pm

"isn't the cake, it's just the icing " ---

I like that. Good multi-purpose analogy. I'll add that to the repertoire. Thanks. :)


p.s. I still take Kessel in the draft if he's available.
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Postby Jesse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:00 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:"isn't the cake, it's just the icing " ---

I like that. Good multi-purpose analogy. I'll add that to the repertoire. Thanks. :)


p.s. I still take Kessel in the draft if he's available.


Can I ask why? Not being snooty, I'd just like to know.

His stock is falling, he's being called "selfish" by everyone who sees him play, and this team's glaring need is defense not offense.

I have to take Johnson. Or trade the pick for a capable Dman.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:11 pm

Jesse wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:"isn't the cake, it's just the icing " ---

I like that. Good multi-purpose analogy. I'll add that to the repertoire. Thanks. :)


p.s. I still take Kessel in the draft if he's available.


Can I ask why? Not being snooty, I'd just like to know.

His stock is falling, he's being called "selfish" by everyone who sees him play, and this team's glaring need is defense not offense.

I have to take Johnson. Or trade the pick for a capable Dman.


Well I disagree with your assessments. Kessel's stock hasnt fallen, it was the great play of Johnson in WJC that made his own stock rise. I haven't heard the "selfish" tag on Kessel, but I'm not doubting its true. That doesnt effect me much, with guys that can set up plays like crosby and malkin, someone has to be selfish and shoot it.

But the biggest thing I feel this team needs is offense, not defense. Yes our d men get burned on a nightly basis.... but we have a couple guys in WBS that can maybe make a difference. Or we can make some trades. But there are no real goal scorers anywhere in this organization. Having a strong offense can help make up for having a poor defense. Look at the Rangers for example. But when you have a poor defense and a poor offense. your last in the NHL.

Keep in mind Kessel is only a freshman, and the hype on him up to this point, (even if it hasnt been so much as of late), still counts for something.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:19 pm

Kessel has been incredibly unselfish this year at Minnesota. The "selfish" quote is not accurate. He had more goals than assists with the U18 & U17 NTDP teams in 05 and 04. He has twice as many assists as goals this year at UM. He had more goals than assists in the 05 WJC. His ratio this year (06) was 1 goal and 11 assists or something along those lines. He does not play on the top line at UM with Potulny, but has not griped once to the media. He has taken a very subservient role on a line with fellow freshman Blake Wheeler while less talented upperclassmen assume prominent roles on higher lines. Penguin pick Alex Goligoski was effusive in his praise of Kessel's selflessness on a recent pp.com article.

Erik Johnson has exploded, literally and figuratively. He is a legitimate 6'4" 220lb skilled 18 year old giant. He outplayed the Chelios clone Jack Johnson at the WJC. Kessel being in a free fall is an urban legend. Johnson turned into a Rob Blake man child.
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Postby Jesse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:20 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:


But the biggest thing I feel this team needs is offense, not defense. Yes our d men get burned on a nightly basis.... but we have a couple guys in WBS that can maybe make a difference. Or we can make some trades. But there are no real goal scorers anywhere in this organization. Having a strong offense can help make up for having a poor defense. Look at the Rangers for example. But when you have a poor defense and a poor offense. your last in the NHL.


This conversation really shows what a double edged sword it can be. On one hand, you have Kessel, who is losing hype consistently. Sure, he could turn out to be a nice compliment to Crosby and Malkin, or he could turn out to be what MCM saw, which basically was nothing. By taking Kessel, we're placing our hope on the backs of a few young defensemen that may or may not be ready to step up and play.

On the other hand, you have the pick that could possibly be a ticket for a good, solid, proven dman that could be a huge patch in this horrible blue line.

It'll be interesting to see what decision this management group makes, I'm just hoping it's the right one.
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Postby Jesse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:24 pm

Draftnik wrote:Kessel has been incredibly unselfish this year at Minnesota. The "selfish" quote is not accurate. He had more goals than assists with the U18 & U17 NTDP teams in 05 and 04. He has twice as many assists as goals this year at UM. He had more goals than assists in the 05 WJC. His ratio this year (06) was 1 goal and 11 assists or something along those lines. He does not play on the top line at UM with Potulny, but has not griped once to the media. He has taken a very subservient role on a line with fellow freshman Blake Wheeler while less talented upperclassmen assume prominent roles on higher lines. Penguin pick Alex Goligoski was effusive in his praise of Kessel's selflessness on a recent pp.com article.


I wouldn't exactly call the free fall an urban legend, I've not seen Kessel play, but the people who have, MCM included, have never had anything good to say about him.

If what people say about Kessel is true, then we could have a three headed monster on our hands, offensivley speaking.

We'd still be losing 7-6, though.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:30 pm

Jesse wrote:This conversation really shows what a double edged sword it can be. On one hand, you have Kessel, who is losing hype consistently. Sure, he could turn out to be a nice compliment to Crosby and Malkin, or he could turn out to be what MCM saw, which basically was nothing. By taking Kessel, we're placing our hope on the backs of a few young defensemen that may or may not be ready to step up and play.

On the other hand, you have the pick that could possibly be a ticket for a good, solid, proven dman that could be a huge patch in this horrible blue line.

It'll be interesting to see what decision this management group makes, I'm just hoping it's the right one.


Kessel accelerated his HS degree to play college hockey. If he stayed with his grade level he would be tearing things up with the NTDP team and not be at UM. Erik Johnson (same age group as Kessel) is still playing on the U18 NTDP team. Kessel was incredibly dominant at that level last year and topped it off with a performance at the U18 WJC that prompted scouts to compare him to Crosby. Now that Kessel is in a much more visible and more competitive league his game is being scrutinized. Kessel is not getting gobs of ice time and not playing with the best linemates, yet he still is easily the highest scoring freshman in D1 hockey when he should be a HS SR. Erik Johnson may team things up at UM next season or he may be put in a subservient role by Luccia as Kessel is and his game may be picked apart based on playing versus better competition.

Kessel is not in a free fall or losing hype. Kyle Woodlief had an explanation of this in his USA Today RLR column a month or 2 ago.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:34 pm

Jesse wrote:I wouldn't exactly call the free fall an urban legend, I've not seen Kessel play, but the people who have, MCM included, have never had anything good to say about him.


I've seen Kessel play ~ 25 times the past 2 years. His skills are still there. He can't easily beat older players 1 on 1 as he did when he was destroying other 17 year old kids, but he has learned to pass much more and has set his teammates up for some sweet goals at UM.

He will learn to diversify his game as opponents adjust to it. All great players do. We are talking about an 18 year old kid. Posters on this board act as if he won't continue to get better.


If Luccia had him on the top line with Potulny I don't think we would be having this discussion. Kessel is paying his dues at UM because he is a freshman on a very good team and Luccia probably doesn't want to rock the chemistry on a prohibitive NCAA title favorite.
Last edited by Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:35 pm

Jesse wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:


But the biggest thing I feel this team needs is offense, not defense. Yes our d men get burned on a nightly basis.... but we have a couple guys in WBS that can maybe make a difference. Or we can make some trades. But there are no real goal scorers anywhere in this organization. Having a strong offense can help make up for having a poor defense. Look at the Rangers for example. But when you have a poor defense and a poor offense. your last in the NHL.


This conversation really shows what a double edged sword it can be. On one hand, you have Kessel, who is losing hype consistently. Sure, he could turn out to be a nice compliment to Crosby and Malkin, or he could turn out to be what MCM saw, which basically was nothing. By taking Kessel, we're placing our hope on the backs of a few young defensemen that may or may not be ready to step up and play.

On the other hand, you have the pick that could possibly be a ticket for a good, solid, proven dman that could be a huge patch in this horrible blue line.

It'll be interesting to see what decision this management group makes, I'm just hoping it's the right one.


What you have said about Kessel can also be applied to Johnson. Both are chances you have to take. And keep in mind that Johnson hasen't even played college hockey yet.
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Postby Jesse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:38 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Jesse wrote:I wouldn't exactly call the free fall an urban legend, I've not seen Kessel play, but the people who have, MCM included, have never had anything good to say about him.


I've seen Kessel play ~ 25 times the past 2 years. His skills are still there. He can't easily beat older players 1 on 1 as he did when he was 17, but he has learned to pass much more and has set his teammates up for some sweet goals at UM.

He will learn to diversify his game as opponents adjust to it. All great players do. We are talking about an 18 year old kid. Posters on this board act as if he won't continue to get better.


If Luccia had him on the top line with Potulny I don't think we would be having this discussion. Kessel is paying his dues at UM because he is a freshman on a very good team and Luccia probably doesn't want to rock the chemistry on a prohibitive NCAA title favorite.


Thanks for the info, Draftnik. What's the timeline on Kessel as far as development is concerned? Is he finishing school or heading straight to the NHL?

I never said this kid wouldn't get better, I'm just saying that people were relaying to me that the hype on Kessel was just that, hype. I was under the impression he was good, but was a bit of a head case and not in the same class as the recent top picks have been.

If we end up with him, great. Hopefully what you've said will turn out to be right. But as I said, it's either one or the other for this team now. Make a move for a bigtime dman or go for Kessel and hope to just outscore the other team.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:42 pm

Draftnik wrote:I've seen Kessel play ~ 25 times the past 2 years. His skills are still there. He can't easily beat older players 1 on 1 as he did when he was destroying other 17 year old kids, but he has learned to pass much more and has set his teammates up for some sweet goals at UM.


All I know is when I saw him in person, he did not pass the puck once all night. All he did is take the puck and try to beat the whole Wisconsin team. When I saw him the next night on TV, it was more of the same.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:05 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
Draftnik wrote:I've seen Kessel play ~ 25 times the past 2 years. His skills are still there. He can't easily beat older players 1 on 1 as he did when he was destroying other 17 year old kids, but he has learned to pass much more and has set his teammates up for some sweet goals at UM.


All I know is when I saw him in person, he did not pass the puck once all night. All he did is take the puck and try to beat the whole Wisconsin team. When I saw him the next night on TV, it was more of the same.


I saw 2 games last year when Crosby didn't score a single point in JR. Kessel may never be as good as Crosby, but the stats from 2 games can't be used to draw accurate conclusions. Kessel is 14 & 28 this year at UM. He was 1 & 11 or something close to that at the WJC. I saw him set up Bourque for some sweet goals in the WJC. I've seen him set up some guys with sweet passes this year at UM, but he doesn't have the best linemates. If guys like Woodleif were criticizing him I would buy it, but Woodleif defended him and I still see the same remarkable speed and wrist/slap shot combined with new passing skills so I am not ready to bury the kid.
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Postby mnpensfan on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:07 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
All I know is when I saw him in person, he did not pass the puck once all night. All he did is take the puck and try to beat the whole Wisconsin team. When I saw him the next night on TV, it was more of the same.


I think that can be attributed to him wanting to prove something to his hometown crowd. And with the way he was getting booed, I can see how it could have attributed to him trying too hard. Just shows that he needs to grow up a little.

I think you are going to see Lucia lobby VERY hard to convince both him and Wheeler that they need another year in Minnesota, which, IMHO would do them both a bit of good....
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:07 pm

Draftnik wrote:If guys like Woodleif were criticizing him I would buy it, but Woodleif defended him and I still see the same remarkable speed and wrist/slap shot combined with new passing skills so I am not ready to bury the kid.


Oh, I'm not either. I'm just saying what I saw those two nights. Obviously, the stats say he is much better than that, but he sure didn't show it those two games.
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