Mark Recchi to Flyers?

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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:29 am

Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.
NIN
 

Postby FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:34 am

NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:50 am

FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.


Thats a good point but limiting the bidding to two teams was the real problem. Getting the worst of the two possible deals just added insult to injury. Worst trade ever.
NIN
 

Postby FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:53 am

NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.


Thats a good point but limiting the bidding to two teams was the real problem. Getting the worst of the two possible deals just added insult to injury. Worst trade ever.


NY and Was were the only teams interested in Jagr that also would have been able to pick up his 10 million salary.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:04 pm

FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.


Thats a good point but limiting the bidding to two teams was the real problem. Getting the worst of the two possible deals just added insult to injury. Worst trade ever.


NY and Was were the only teams interested in Jagr that also would have been able to pick up his 10 million salary.


I concur, however don't you think he could have brought 4 or 5 other clubs to the table by showing a willingness to pick up return salary that would come come to within 2 or 3 million of what they were trading away?

Jagr's salary was very high and trading him was inevitable. My thinking is that breaking the salary into 3 good players would have allowed the team to keep one and trade 2 for prospects. Thus gaurenteeing at least one sure fire NHL player as opposed to only ONE 1st rounded and a couple of 3rd rounders.
NIN
 

Postby mnpensfan on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:20 pm

NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.


Thats a good point but limiting the bidding to two teams was the real problem. Getting the worst of the two possible deals just added insult to injury. Worst trade ever.


NY and Was were the only teams interested in Jagr that also would have been able to pick up his 10 million salary.


I concur, however don't you think he could have brought 4 or 5 other clubs to the table by showing a willingness to pick up return salary that would come come to within 2 or 3 million of what they were trading away?

Jagr's salary was very high and trading him was inevitable. My thinking is that breaking the salary into 3 good players would have allowed the team to keep one and trade 2 for prospects. Thus gaurenteeing at least one sure fire NHL player as opposed to only ONE 1st rounded and a couple of 3rd rounders.


Also don't forget that they had to deal with keeping Lang/Kovy/Straka the next season. They couldn't keep all with Jagr around. Of course it didn't matter when all were gone within two years anyway, but that was definately a factor when considering how much salary would be coming back for Jagr.....
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:27 pm

mnpensfan wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
Bowser wrote:Jesse - I think Patrick dug his own grave with his body of work starting with the Jagr trade. There was no excuse for him not to receive one legitimate NHL player instead opting for three prospects with major problems.

Beech couldn't skate, Lupaschuk ignored his defensive responsibility, and Sivek looked to be a lesser version of Tomas Surovy.


Nevermind the fact that they traded for prospects, it was the discission to not bring back contract money that made that trade a monumental failure. They could have gotten 3 good young proven NHL players. Marleau/Sturm/Rathje from San Jose or the equivilant would have been easy to swing for a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. Of course those players would have had contracts that would have added to nearly the same as they were sending away with Jagr (excluding Kucera who was a whole other mistake). The beauty is that Patrick would have divided the Jagr problem into bite sized chunks and could have kept one of those 3. The other 2 could have yeilded prospects of at least the same skill level as Sivek and Lupaschuk. Certainly they would have had time to move 2 of those contracts during the time of the Kasparitus and Kovalev fire sales.

It would appear that they wanted one last shot at a Cup with Jagr and maybe Lemieux wanted that Cup run more than Jagr did. If that makes any sense :? ? Maybe holding onto Jagr for one more year brought upon a sense of panic to the owners and they forced CP's hand. Patrick could have stood up and said,"Bite sized chunks baby, trust the clover ********!" but he did'nt.


Let's not forget the rumors at the time was that he was going to go to NY. He might not have gotten a better package than what the Flyers got for Lindros ( Havlac, Brendl and Johnnson) but he could have at least gotten better than the Caps deal. Johnnson alone would have been more than the Caps package. I think he traded with Mcphee out of spite for Sather offering less than Patrick wanted.


Thats a good point but limiting the bidding to two teams was the real problem. Getting the worst of the two possible deals just added insult to injury. Worst trade ever.


NY and Was were the only teams interested in Jagr that also would have been able to pick up his 10 million salary.


I concur, however don't you think he could have brought 4 or 5 other clubs to the table by showing a willingness to pick up return salary that would come come to within 2 or 3 million of what they were trading away?

Jagr's salary was very high and trading him was inevitable. My thinking is that breaking the salary into 3 good players would have allowed the team to keep one and trade 2 for prospects. Thus gaurenteeing at least one sure fire NHL player as opposed to only ONE 1st rounded and a couple of 3rd rounders.


Also don't forget that they had to deal with keeping Lang/Kovy/Straka the next season. They couldn't keep all with Jagr around. Of course it didn't matter when all were gone within two years anyway, but that was definately a factor when considering how much salary would be coming back for Jagr.....


Perhaps that was of some concern but as I remember it Straka and Lang were let go via free agency going into that season. Or was Straka traded in the off season? NOt sure exactly but they did'nt play much if at all the year following the Jagr mistake, I know that much.
NIN
 

Postby Defence21 on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:34 pm

NIN wrote:Perhaps that was of some concern but as I remember it Straka and Lang were let go via free agency going into that season. Or was Straka traded in the off season? NOt sure exactly but they did'nt play much if at all the year following the Jagr mistake, I know that much.


Straka was traded during the season for Anshakov and Strbak.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:39 pm

Defence21 wrote:
NIN wrote:Perhaps that was of some concern but as I remember it Straka and Lang were let go via free agency going into that season. Or was Straka traded in the off season? NOt sure exactly but they did'nt play much if at all the year following the Jagr mistake, I know that much.


Straka was traded during the season for Anshakov and Strbak.


AHhhhhh thank you. They got more for dealing Straka the second time around then they did for Jagr! :lol: Imagine what prospects Marleau or Rathje could have brought? Plus having a Marco Sturm around for like 1.5 million would'nt hurt.
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Postby pfim on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Perhaps that was of some concern but as I remember it Straka and Lang were let go via free agency going into that season. Or was Straka traded in the off season? NOt sure exactly but they did'nt play much if at all the year following the Jagr mistake, I know that much.


Jagr was traded in the summer of 2001. Kovalev was on the payroll for one full season and up until the trade deadline of the next season. Straka was on the payroll for 2 full seasons and the beginning of a third, Lang was on the payroll for a full season.
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Postby pfim on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:44 pm

NIN wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
NIN wrote:Perhaps that was of some concern but as I remember it Straka and Lang were let go via free agency going into that season. Or was Straka traded in the off season? NOt sure exactly but they did'nt play much if at all the year following the Jagr mistake, I know that much.


Straka was traded during the season for Anshakov and Strbak.


AHhhhhh thank you. They got more for dealing Straka the second time around then they did for Jagr! :lol: Imagine what prospects Marleau or Rathje could have brought? Plus having a Marco Sturm around for like 1.5 million would'nt hurt.


That would have been great if San Jose had any interest in tying up $11 million per year with one player, which only two teams were interested in doing.
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Postby FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:51 pm

LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3
Last edited by FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:56 pm

That would have been great if San Jose had any interest in tying up $11 million per year with one player, which only two teams were interested in doing.


It wo0uld have been great if they would have taken salary back. There were at least 4 other teams that would have loved to have a 4 time scoring champion to build around and draw a renewed hockey buzz around their club. Sure you have to give up a few lesser talents but the real turnoff was that adding 11 million without lossing any salary was impossible for all but 2 clubs.

The Pens went for the dump and they got dumped on.[/quote]
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Postby netwolf on Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:58 pm

FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.


If it does, don't let them know about this one. One of you is enough. :wink:
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Postby pfim on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:06 pm

NIN wrote:
That would have been great if San Jose had any interest in tying up $11 million per year with one player, which only two teams were interested in doing.


It wo0uld have been great if they would have taken salary back. There were at least 4 other teams that would have loved to have a 4 time scoring champion to build around and draw a renewed hockey buzz around their club. Sure you have to give up a few lesser talents but the real turnoff was that adding 11 million without lossing any salary was impossible for all but 2 clubs.

The Pens went for the dump and they got dumped on.
[/quote]

Who? No matter how much salary they could have taken back, Jagr would still have taken up at least 25% of most teams' payrolls.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:08 pm

pfim wrote:
NIN wrote:
That would have been great if San Jose had any interest in tying up $11 million per year with one player, which only two teams were interested in doing.


It wo0uld have been great if they would have taken salary back. There were at least 4 other teams that would have loved to have a 4 time scoring champion to build around and draw a renewed hockey buzz around their club. Sure you have to give up a few lesser talents but the real turnoff was that adding 11 million without lossing any salary was impossible for all but 2 clubs.

The Pens went for the dump and they got dumped on.


Who? No matter how much salary they could have taken back, Jagr would still have taken up at least 25% of most teams' payrolls.[/quote]

Im going to let this one die. All my posts seem to be under the wrong thread today! I should start my own more often I suppose. Sorry about that Recchi fans or unfans.
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Postby Steve on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:33 pm

People have to remember that there were only two teams bidding for Jagr. Think there might be a reason for that?

And the Caps received only Carter when they dumped him - who left after that season...
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:38 pm

Steve wrote:People have to remember that there were only two teams bidding for Jagr. Think there might be a reason for that?

And the Caps received only Carter when they dumped him - who left after that season...


The Caps are also paying 50% of Jagr's salary, ~ $4M. The Pens got nothing for Jagr and Kovy because they received $5M and $4M in the transactions. They also forced the Caps and NYR to take some other bad contracts off their hands.

Once $$$ and bad contracts start being exchanged there is no way to objectively compare the talent quotient of a trade versus a conventional talent swap.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:39 pm

Steve wrote:People have to remember that there were only two teams bidding for Jagr. Think there might be a reason for that?

And the Caps received only Carter when they dumped him - who left after that season...


If you want my opinion then please scroll up. :roll:
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Postby DayWalker on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:52 pm

Steve wrote:People have to remember that there were only two teams bidding for Jagr. Think there might be a reason for that?

And the Caps received only Carter when they dumped him - who left after that season...


Yeah, that Jared Aulin was quite an expensive player for the Capitals to acquire, wasn't he?

It is bizarre how folks seem to assume that the Penguins could afford to pick up part of Jagr's salary, retain three top-flight restricted free agents in the summer of 2001 (Straka, Kovalev, and Lang), and somehow demand that more teams bid for the most expensive player in hockey, all the while being two years removed from bankruptcy proceedings and playing in the oldest arena in the NHL...

But some people just don't want to seems to let that deal go.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:53 pm

FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


Is it just me, or does anyone else see a huge difference in the quality of posts, writing, and ideas on that board from LGP?

It's almost like LGP with a frontal lobotomy.
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rasbatch on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:58 pm

LGP.com is the board thy board, thou shall have no other board before or after LGP
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:59 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


Is it just me, or does anyone else see I huge difference in the quality of posts, writing, and ideas on that board from LGP?

It's almost like LGP with a frontal lobotomy.


What are you talkin' about, you idiot???

:D
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Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:09 pm

FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


Boy, the quality of the discourse over there is simply amazing :roll:
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Postby FlyerNation on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:12 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:LMAO! Our board is ready to explode with all these Recchi rumors.

http://www.flyersphans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3


Is it just me, or does anyone else see a huge difference in the quality of posts, writing, and ideas on that board from LGP?

It's almost like LGP with a frontal lobotomy.


Big difference. First the core of the community goes back over 5 years. It isn't as stuffy as some boards like here. They throw everything out there on one board. Non Hockey posts get as much discussions as the Hockey posts. People fly off the handle but that's what makes that board so great. It's different than reading the O & B .net where everyone is a stepford, they rehash the same topics day after day and the Flyers glass is always half full. At Phans it gets more emotional because there are so many opposing views and the activity is always high which makes for it seeming to be more bizarre. Probably the most popular Flyers board on the net.
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