Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Postby NIN on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:21 pm

I think Forsberg is still alittle better at passing and the vision is more seasoned. He is better at faceoffs.

Everything else goes to Crosby: Speed, toughness, checking, balance, shooting, stickwork, durability, and boardwork.

The scary thing is that he is of course only 18 and Forsberg is like 32 or something? Peter Forsberg is widely regarded as one of the best all around players to ever play the game so that really says alot about Crosby's future. To think he might not be the best rookie?
Last edited by NIN on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NIN
 

Postby netwolf on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:24 pm

I like Crosby as much as the next guy, but he's not better than Forsberg. Yet.

I really don't see how you think 87 is better than 21 at all those things you listed. Speed I get, but all of the other attributes, especially those tied to physical strength are in Forsberg's favor and if not they are a wash.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby jjwags on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:47 pm

Crosby is becoming very powerful
However he is not a Jedi yet :roll:
jjwags
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:10 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Postby Kicksave on Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:53 pm

Yea, I wouldn't put him there yet.

In 2-3 years once Crosby fills out his frame, he'll be unstoppable.
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Postby Ben Klingston on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:05 pm

One of the things that kind of worries me about Crosby is that he seems to go to the same moves over and over.

Split the D on the 2 on 1.

Making the 'slap-pass' on the PP.

But hey, if it works, Ok. He'll probably have to get burned by it a few times, but until he does, make someone stop him is the theory, I guess.

I agree with the others on Forsberg comparisons. Especially on the physicality part. I'd be ecstatic if he's Forsberg's equal some day. The very real prospect that he will be better than Forsberg is... awesome.

And the fact that we have a guy coming (hopefully) next year who has just as much chance to become that level of player is... very awesome.
Ben Klingston
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,857
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:59 am
Location: Meeting Mario at Center Ice

Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:27 pm

Ben Klingston wrote:And the fact that we have a guy coming (hopefully) next year who has just as much chance to become that level of player is... very awesome.


Yeah, to think that we may have 2 Forsbergs centering this team someday gives me chills! I'd also say Crosby (and Malkin, for that matter) have a long way to go to reach Forsbergism.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,025
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby Kicksave on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:28 pm

Pitts wrote:
Ben Klingston wrote:And the fact that we have a guy coming (hopefully) next year who has just as much chance to become that level of player is... very awesome.


Yeah, to think that we may have 2 Forsbergs centering this team someday gives me chills! I'd also say Crosby (and Malkin, for that matter) have a long way to go to reach Forsbergism.


I think Crosby will reach that status by the time hes 20. I don't see why he shouldn't. He'll be in his second, going on his 3rd season in the league. He'll have a few more roll players with him. Lets just hope that hes here for it :(
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Postby Pitts on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:31 pm

Kicksave wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Ben Klingston wrote:And the fact that we have a guy coming (hopefully) next year who has just as much chance to become that level of player is... very awesome.


Yeah, to think that we may have 2 Forsbergs centering this team someday gives me chills! I'd also say Crosby (and Malkin, for that matter) have a long way to go to reach Forsbergism.


I think Crosby will reach that status by the time hes 20. I don't see why he shouldn't. He'll be in his second, going on his 3rd season in the league. He'll have a few more roll players with him. Lets just hope that hes here for it :(


I think all he needs is to fill out that frame a bit which should happen pretty well in the timeframe you mention. Malkin is already a big boy!
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,025
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby DelPen on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:35 pm

Crosby might be as good as Forsberg was some day but Forsberg was the best player in the world for a strech around 2000 before he hit the injury wall. Crosby has a long way to go to become the best player in the world.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 31,966
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Postby NIN on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:35 pm

Ben Klingston wrote:One of the things that kind of worries me about Crosby is that he seems to go to the same moves over and over.

Split the D on the 2 on 1.

Making the 'slap-pass' on the PP.

But hey, if it works, Ok. He'll probably have to get burned by it a few times, but until he does, make someone stop him is the theory, I guess.

I agree with the others on Forsberg comparisons. Especially on the physicality part. I'd be ecstatic if he's Forsberg's equal some day. The very real prospect that he will be better than Forsberg is... awesome.

And the fact that we have a guy coming (hopefully) next year who has just as much chance to become that level of player is... very awesome.


The slap pass is only effective if your shot is respected. Crosby's already is, perhaps as much as Forsberg's is already. Alot of the plays Forsberg makes begins with forcing the goalie to play the angle. He can then find the open man and the goalie is out of the picture unless he can make an unbeleivable save.

Beating 2 defensemen isnt easy and there arent any sure fire ways to do it. Quick acceleration and a lucky bounce work most often and Crosby has drawn many penalties doing that and he at least breaks through and allows his wingers to change.

Those plays are EXCEPTIONAL and nothing at all to be worried about, just enjoy!
NIN
 

Postby relantel on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:40 pm

Is Crosby better than Forsberg now? No.

Is Crosby better at age 18 than Forsberg was at 18? Not having seen Forsberg at that age, I don't know.
relantel
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,618
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:24 am
Location: PM me your email addy for invite to LGP Extra Attacker league

Postby Ben Klingston on Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:45 pm

NIN wrote:The slap pass is only effective if your shot is respected. Crosby's already is, perhaps as much as Forsberg's is already. Alot of the plays Forsberg makes begins with forcing the goalie to play the angle. He can then find the open man and the goalie is out of the picture unless he can make an unbeleivable save.

Beating 2 defensemen isnt easy and there arent any sure fire ways to do it. Quick acceleration and a lucky bounce work most often and Crosby has drawn many penalties doing that and he at least breaks through and allows his wingers to change.

Those plays are EXCEPTIONAL and nothing at all to be worried about, just enjoy!


Oh, don't get me wrong... I love to watch them now, and I agree, they are exceptional. When I say 'worried', I'm talking about him going to the well one too many times and a smart PKer anticipating the slip pass and taking it back for a short-hander, or a defensive pairing playing 'dumb' then timing it to crush #87 collectively. I don't worry about it affecting his long-term game, though. If (and I admit it is an if) he goes to the moves too often and gets burned in some way, hes a cerebral enough player to realize it, adjust, and space out how many times he goes to those particular plays. But as I said...until someone can prove that they can burn or stop him legally, on a consistent basis, I don't have a problem with him continuing.
Ben Klingston
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,857
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:59 am
Location: Meeting Mario at Center Ice

Postby NIN on Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:10 am

Ben Klingston wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong... I love to watch them now, and I agree, they are exceptional. When I say 'worried', I'm talking about him going to the well one too many times and a smart PKer anticipating the slip pass and taking it back for a short-hander, or a defensive pairing playing 'dumb' then timing it to crush #87 collectively. I don't worry about it affecting his long-term game, though. If (and I admit it is an if) he goes to the moves too often and gets burned in some way, hes a cerebral enough player to realize it, adjust, and space out how many times he goes to those particular plays. But as I said...until someone can prove that they can burn or stop him legally, on a consistent basis, I don't have a problem with him continuing.


That doesnt concern me either.

The thing I think most of you are overlooking in this comparison is Crosby's speed. If Forsberg tried to match Crosby's speed at any point in his career, he would most certainly pull a groin muscle and collapse. Crosby can do everything Forsberg can with the puck but with 50% more speed. If your a defenseman, or two for that matter, the last thing you want to do is take a step forward in an effort to make the big impactful hit. He will humiliate you, and your friend would be trapped on the far side because no matter which of the 2 commit, he is as good on the backhand-as the forehand. They give Crosby the middle and he is getting closer to making it work. In fact he has got a few decent shots on net after beating 2 defenders.
NIN
 

Postby Kicksave on Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:58 am

NIN wrote:
Ben Klingston wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong... I love to watch them now, and I agree, they are exceptional. When I say 'worried', I'm talking about him going to the well one too many times and a smart PKer anticipating the slip pass and taking it back for a short-hander, or a defensive pairing playing 'dumb' then timing it to crush #87 collectively. I don't worry about it affecting his long-term game, though. If (and I admit it is an if) he goes to the moves too often and gets burned in some way, hes a cerebral enough player to realize it, adjust, and space out how many times he goes to those particular plays. But as I said...until someone can prove that they can burn or stop him legally, on a consistent basis, I don't have a problem with him continuing.


That doesnt concern me either.

The thing I think most of you are overlooking in this comparison is Crosby's speed. If Forsberg tried to match Crosby's speed at any point in his career, he would most certainly pull a groin muscle and collapse. Crosby can do everything Forsberg can with the puck but with 50% more speed. If your a defenseman, or two for that matter, the last thing you want to do is take a step forward in an effort to make the big impactful hit. He will humiliate you, and your friend would be trapped on the far side because no matter which of the 2 commit, he is as good on the backhand-as the forehand. They give Crosby the middle and he is getting closer to making it work. In fact he has got a few decent shots on net after beating 2 defenders.


That might be true but he still isn't in Forsberg's class yet. Part of being up in his class is showing that he is able to do it for longer than half a season. When Crosby is 20 and repeats what he is doing now, he'll be of that mold.
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.

Postby NIN on Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:06 am

"That might be true but he still isn't in Forsberg's class yet. Part of being up in his class is showing that he is able to do it for longer than half a season. When Crosby is 20 and repeats what he is doing now, he'll be of that mold."

Kicksave said that (and obviously NIN is still struggling with the qouting)

In my original post I should have stated that I am not comparing their careers, just their current talent levels. Imagine if you will that your designing the next hockey video game and you had to break down both players individual traits. I think Crosby would be better. Also, I doubt he is going to get any worse so his career should be awesome. From what ive read he is "new school" when it comes to the off-season. Very very commited, right up there with Shane Doan and a few others.
NIN
 

Postby netwolf on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:20 am

You also forgot the most controversial category to compare them at: who's the better diver? :twisted:
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Postby abigFATAss on Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:23 am

NIN wrote:Everything else goes to Crosby: Speed, toughness, checking, balance, shooting, stickwork, durability, and boardwork.


All those sound great. But, I actually think speed might be a drawback. Sid goes all out all the time. In terms of going into the offensive zone and trying to set something up, it's not too good when you're 10 steps ahead of the next teammate behind you. Instead of splitting the defense, which a lot of teams will catch up on, you slow down, wait for help, and set up something.

Especially on the powerplay. Sid should slow down. Because he has great acceleration. He can go from 0 to 60 in a second. The speed will be there, just use it wisely.

But, that's just age showing. Allow him to mature. Mario did the same thing his first couple of seasons when he still had his speed. Later on, he slowed down, and showed off his playmaking ability. Sid proves every game he's a playmaker. If he takes his foot off the gas, he'll be better.
abigFATAss
 

Re: Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Postby NIN on Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:51 am

I can't imagine why you would look at his speed being a drawback. The faster you go the quicker they back up and the more effective the Gretzky curls are. What Forsberg wouldnt give to be able to get that kind of room. It isnt like he is ignoring 3 on 2 breaks so he can go 1 on 2. He attempts those at the end of a shift just to try and make soemthing happen while they get fresh wingers on. Also he will initiate the forecheck if his wingers arent on yet or are slagging behind.

I think Forsberg has more seasoned hockey sense and much much better teammates to work with right now, and that really makes a huge difference. Of course I don't recall Forsberg ever being on a bad team. In fact he stayed in the Swedish leagues until he was like 22, I guess he knew than that he didn't have what it takes to carry a team by himself in the NHL.

Crosby is as good now as Forsberg has ever been. Alittle experiance and some more teammates and the assists will start pileing up for him.
NIN
 

Re: Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:06 am

NIN wrote:Crosby is as good now as Forsberg has ever been. Alittle experiance and some more teammates and the assists will start pileing up for him.


That's just ridiculous. I'll bet you couldn't find a half dozen NJLers who would concur with that ststement. He is a great rookie. But he still has much to learn. To say he hasn;t had good linemates is wrong. he had Palffy almost all year, and how many goals did Ziggy have? As a comparison, look what Forsberg did for Gagne. He was on almost a goal-a-game pace until Forsberg got hurt.

I agree with what has been said above. Sid is faster, but right now that's all I'd give him on Forsberg. Heck, Floppa even wins the diving category :lol:.

Someday, I think Sid might end up better than Forsberg, given a good surrounding cast. But he's not there yet. Let's just enjoy him for what he is--a fantastic hockey player.
Mad City Mike
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,560
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:14 am
Location: De Forest, WI

Postby NIN on Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 am

:wink: I totally forgot the diving category! I bet Crosby has drawn at least as many calls as Floppa this season but FLoppa is still the master at that.

I dont think many players today would give Crosby the ego boost I am, I think because he is so young and cocky there is alot of resentment. I love the fact that Crosby doesnt really care about all of that, at least not on the ice he doesnt. He is a tough dude, theres alot of negativity but he keeps on giving his all out there.

Now if you want to compare Ziggy and Gagne I think Gagne is alot better because of Ziggy's injuries. I thought he was a wimp because he never ever went to the boards to fight for the puck. Turns out he has been hurt and not 100% all season. Also, because he didnt do the routine stuff forwards do it really killed the attack, but his skating was still there so he was able to cheat back and be effective that way. Gagne has a better shot and he will do what it takes to score goals, unlike the perimiter play of Palffy.
NIN
 

Re: Is Sidney Crosby better than Peter Forsberg?

Postby abigFATAss on Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:29 am

NIN wrote:I can't imagine why you would look at his speed being a drawback. The faster you go the quicker they back up and the more effective the Gretzky curls are. What Forsberg wouldnt give to be able to get that kind of room. It isnt like he is ignoring 3 on 2 breaks so he can go 1 on 2. He attempts those at the end of a shift just to try and make soemthing happen while they get fresh wingers on. Also he will initiate the forecheck if his wingers arent on yet or are slagging behind.


It's becoming a predictable problem. These are NHL quality defensemen. They are in this league for a reason. There's nothing wrong with waiting a little bit for an even man matchup. One defenseman takes the guy without the puck. In that situation, Sid's one on one with the remaining defenseman.

Not that he's trying to, but it just seems to me that he's trying to create the kind of offensive move that's on ESPN Top 10 Plays of the Day. I'm not saying he's deliberately doing it just to do it, I'm saying he needs to slow down in order to give himself options.

If you create a one on one situation, there are so many ways you can beat a defenseman. And I'm sure Sid knows all of them. Use him as a screen and score, go to the outside and protect the puck, give him a juke and go to the slot and put it in the net, just to name a few. Sounds a lot better than going as fast as you can, trying to split two defensemen who are bigger than you, and go crashing into the net or the boards really fast.

You slow down, you give yourself options for a possible pass or a one on one situation.

As for him giving it one last shot before he gets off, two to four Pens head off. And, if the opposite team is any good, they don't change while the puck is in their end. So they stay on. Sid can't split the defense. Pens are caught in a change. Other team goes the other way, while the rest of the Penguins just getting on are scrambling to get into position before an odd-man break happens.

He's better off just dumping the puck and keeping it in the offensive zone until the fresh wingers and defensemen get on.
abigFATAss
 

Postby FlyerNation on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:44 pm

So much for a fresh start NIN.

I wouldn't even give Ovechkin the nod over Forsberg at this point let alone Crosby. You have no idea about Forsberg to even start this thread. Do your homework. When healthy Forsberg is still a top 5 player in the world.

LOL!
Last edited by FlyerNation on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FlyerNation
 

Postby puckad on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:51 pm

Forsberg is a world class player and has been one for several years. Crosby is on his way to become one, but to say he's better than Forsberg in his rookie season is very disrespectful to Forsberg. We can only hope Crosby has the kind of career Forsberg is having. The resemblance is striking though. Both guys are winners and won't take **** from no one.
puckad
 

Legitmate Comparisons

Postby Mad City Mike on Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:58 pm

At 18, Forsberg had 9 goals and 19 assists for Modo in the Swedish Elite League

In his rookie year, Forsberg had 15 goals and 35 assists in 47 games.

Sid's numbers blow both away, meaning he is better as an 18-year-old and he is a better rookie.
Mad City Mike
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,560
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:14 am
Location: De Forest, WI

Postby Pitts on Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:01 pm

Wow...good call Mike. I never would have thought Sid's numbers would be that much better.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,025
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: murphydump55, pens_srq and 22 guests

e-mail