The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

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The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:25 pm

Why wont I let this trade go? Because Patrick's dying career here in Pittsburgh will be forever linked to it. In the end, when he leaves whether it's with or without the entire franchise. It will undoubtedly have something to do with his discission to dump Jagr's contract without the return of one single NHL player.

I dare any of you to check out every teams payroll during that time. Prove to me that there werent at least 4 other teams that could have taken on 5 million more in payroll. Teams like Calgary of course not. San Jose? Toronto? Los Angelos? Why not? Why would'nt they give us 6 million back in good young NHL players for 5 million more in a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. They get a 2-time Stanley Cup champion and the most dangerous PP-QB in the game and really only would lose 2 other players from their immediate roster because Jagr replaces one of the traded.

Everyone around here is brain washed into beleiveing that there were only 2 teams interested in Jagr. That is because the Penguins made the deal about money from the get go. They kept Jagr against his will to make another Cup run with Lemieux and then demanded money ON TOP of Jagr's contract and the highly overpaid Patrick mistake named Kucera.

What sensable team looking to add a 4-time Art Ross winner in his prime is going to be able to take on 15 million while giving back nothing?! The Penguins created that situation and the fans around here actually beleive it was a good deal because of the economics! :lol:
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:27 pm

NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.
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Postby netwolf on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:30 pm

Pitts wrote:NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.


Neither does he. He really wants to catch me. :P

Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:31 pm

netwolf wrote:
Pitts wrote:NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.


Neither does he. He really wants to catch me. :P

Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


Aww c'mon you could have provided better feeback then that! Are you trying to kill my thread off? 8)
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:32 pm

Wow, I didn't realize he was that close! You know guys, there is no prize at the end. :D
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Postby netwolf on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:33 pm

NIN wrote:
netwolf wrote:
Pitts wrote:NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.


Neither does he. He really wants to catch me. :P

Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


Aww c'mon you could have provided better feeback then that! Are you trying to kill my thread off? 8)


No, but Pitts might be. I gave you my thoughts on the deal at least. :)
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:33 pm

ziggystardust wrote:
NIN wrote:Why wont I let this trade go? Because Patrick's dying career here in Pittsburgh will be forever linked to it. In the end, when he leaves whether it's with or without the entire franchise. It will undoubtedly have something to do with his discission to dump Jagr's contract without the return of one single NHL player.

I dare any of you to check out every teams payroll during that time. Prove to me that there werent at least 4 other teams that could have taken on 5 million more in payroll. Teams like Calgary of course not. San Jose? Toronto? Los Angelos? Why not? Why would'nt they give us 6 million back in good young NHL players for 5 million more in a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. They get a 2-time Stanley Cup champion and the most dangerous PP-QB in the game and really only would lose 2 other players from their immediate roster because Jagr replaces one of the traded.

Everyone around here is brain washed into beleiveing that there were only 2 teams interested in Jagr. That is because the Penguins made the deal about money from the get go. They kept Jagr against his will to make another Cup run with Lemieux and then demanded money ON TOP of Jagr's contract and the highly overpaid Patrick mistake named Kucera.

What sensable team looking to add a 4-time Art Ross winner in his prime is going to be able to take on 15 million while giving back nothing?! The Penguins created that situation and the fans around here actually beleive it was a good deal because of the economics! :lol:



You know this was as much Mario's fault as it was Craig's, right?


For once I share your Mario bashing snetiment. ALthough I don't fault anybody for trying to make a run, and they made a nice one. Mario definately made that payroll bottom line crash hard.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:34 pm

netwolf wrote:
NIN wrote:
netwolf wrote:
Pitts wrote:NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.


Neither does he. He really wants to catch me. :P

Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


Aww c'mon you could have provided better feeback then that! Are you trying to kill my thread off? 8)


No, but Pitts might be. I gave you my thoughts on the deal at least. :)


Ah so your in cahoots! I had my suspicions! :D
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:34 pm

I am exactly half NIN's equal at this moment! :shock:
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:37 pm

NIN wrote:
netwolf wrote:
NIN wrote:
netwolf wrote:
Pitts wrote:NIN, really, no one cares about the Jagr trade anymore. Really.


Neither does he. He really wants to catch me. :P

Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


Aww c'mon you could have provided better feeback then that! Are you trying to kill my thread off? 8)


No, but Pitts might be. I gave you my thoughts on the deal at least. :)


Ah so your in cahoots! I had my suspicions! :D


Okay, okay, I'll participate!

No one besides Washington and New York were interested in a pouty, washed-up, lazy, former scoring champ at $11 million back then. Hence, the minimal return gained for such a salary dump.

There, you happy? Now, KILL THIS THREAD! :twisted:
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:39 pm

NIN wrote:Why wont I let this trade go? Because Patrick's dying career here in Pittsburgh will be forever linked to it. In the end, when he leaves whether it's with or without the entire franchise. It will undoubtedly have something to do with his discission to dump Jagr's contract without the return of one single NHL player.

I dare any of you to check out every teams payroll during that time. Prove to me that there werent at least 4 other teams that could have taken on 5 million more in payroll. Teams like Calgary of course not. San Jose? Toronto? Los Angelos? Why not? Why would'nt they give us 6 million back in good young NHL players for 5 million more in a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. They get a 2-time Stanley Cup champion and the most dangerous PP-QB in the game and really only would lose 2 other players from their immediate roster because Jagr replaces one of the traded.

Everyone around here is brain washed into beleiveing that there were only 2 teams interested in Jagr. That is because the Penguins made the deal about money from the get go. They kept Jagr against his will to make another Cup run with Lemieux and then demanded money ON TOP of Jagr's contract and the highly overpaid Patrick mistake named Kucera.

What sensable team looking to add a 4-time Art Ross winner in his prime is going to be able to take on 15 million while giving back nothing?! The Penguins created that situation and the fans around here actually beleive it was a good deal because of the economics! :lol:


Jagr won 5 Ross trophies.

The real total is over $17M when the $5M cash payment is included. Look at what the Caps had to do to unload Jagr. They are paying 50% of his salary (would have been $5.5M, now is $3.9M) for 3.5 (would have been 4.5 seasons). They were expecting to pay the NYR over $22M to take Jagr off their hands. You are upset that Patrick got 3 scrub prospects and $5M for Jagr? Compare the transactions and Patrick looks like a genius.

Like it or not this is a business, it is not PlayStation. If you don't like the Lemieux Group LLP's strategy of trying to break even or make $$$ then don't buy tickets for their product. The season after the Jagr deal they did try to field a competitive team with Lemieux, Kovy, Straka, Lang, Kaspar, etc. With the arbitration awards to Kovy, Straka, and Lang plus the $5M for Lemieux (Hart finalist previous season) the payroll was the same as Jagr's last season.

Even this season they made an ill fated attempt to entertain fans with the foolish Palffy and Gonchar signings plus some other vets.

Patrick has not been good since the Hedberg trade, but the Lemieux Group LLP has only run the white flag up after the Kovy deal in 03 and for the entire 03/04 season. Other than that they've tried to put an entertaining, competitive product on the ice for the fans.
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:42 pm

ziggystardust wrote:He made sure he got his though. The team is selling off its best to anyone who was willing to give Mario money, but he is still on the roster - playing 30 games a year and making $5M.


Lemieux was a Hart Trophy finalist. Almost a goal per game scorer the previous season. He sold more than enough tickets to cover his salary. This is a business. You act like somebody made a bad trade in PlayStation or Strat-O-Matic.
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Postby netwolf on Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:03 pm

ziggystardust wrote:
netwolf wrote:Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


the Senators traded an overpaid, underproducing, playoff enigma for Spezza and Chara....


Too bad for the Pens and Craig Patrick that Milbury didn't come after Jagr, eh?
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Postby Hockeynut! on Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:01 pm

netwolf wrote:
ziggystardust wrote:
netwolf wrote:Fact is, no one here knows for a fact what was on the table, other than the Rangers' offer, which supposedly included Kim Johnsson. Johnsson would have likely been traded away during the "survival mode" anyhow.

What could have happened, did.


the Senators traded an overpaid, underproducing, playoff enigma for Spezza and Chara....


Too bad for the Pens and Craig Patrick that Milbury didn't come after Jagr, eh?


Too bad KCon told the Isles that Jagr was a cancer and killed their interest in him. :lol:
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby DayWalker on Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:39 am

Draftnik wrote:
NIN wrote:Why wont I let this trade go? Because Patrick's dying career here in Pittsburgh will be forever linked to it. In the end, when he leaves whether it's with or without the entire franchise. It will undoubtedly have something to do with his discission to dump Jagr's contract without the return of one single NHL player.

I dare any of you to check out every teams payroll during that time. Prove to me that there werent at least 4 other teams that could have taken on 5 million more in payroll. Teams like Calgary of course not. San Jose? Toronto? Los Angelos? Why not? Why would'nt they give us 6 million back in good young NHL players for 5 million more in a 4 time scoring champion in his prime. They get a 2-time Stanley Cup champion and the most dangerous PP-QB in the game and really only would lose 2 other players from their immediate roster because Jagr replaces one of the traded.

Everyone around here is brain washed into beleiveing that there were only 2 teams interested in Jagr. That is because the Penguins made the deal about money from the get go. They kept Jagr against his will to make another Cup run with Lemieux and then demanded money ON TOP of Jagr's contract and the highly overpaid Patrick mistake named Kucera.

What sensable team looking to add a 4-time Art Ross winner in his prime is going to be able to take on 15 million while giving back nothing?! The Penguins created that situation and the fans around here actually beleive it was a good deal because of the economics! :lol:


Jagr won 5 Ross trophies.

The real total is over $17M when the $5M cash payment is included. Look at what the Caps had to do to unload Jagr. They are paying 50% of his salary (would have been $5.5M, now is $3.9M) for 3.5 (would have been 4.5 seasons). They were expecting to pay the NYR over $22M to take Jagr off their hands. You are upset that Patrick got 3 scrub prospects and $5M for Jagr? Compare the transactions and Patrick looks like a genius.

Like it or not this is a business, it is not PlayStation. If you don't like the Lemieux Group LLP's strategy of trying to break even or make $$$ then don't buy tickets for their product. The season after the Jagr deal they did try to field a competitive team with Lemieux, Kovy, Straka, Lang, Kaspar, etc. With the arbitration awards to Kovy, Straka, and Lang plus the $5M for Lemieux (Hart finalist previous season) the payroll was the same as Jagr's last season.

Even this season they made an ill fated attempt to entertain fans with the foolish Palffy and Gonchar signings plus some other vets.

Patrick has not been good since the Hedberg trade, but the Lemieux Group LLP has only run the white flag up after the Kovy deal in 03 and for the entire 03/04 season. Other than that they've tried to put an entertaining, competitive product on the ice for the fans.


All I know is, the Penguins aren't paying what amounts to nearly $5 million per year for Jared Aulin...
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Postby Henry Hank on Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:42 am

I can't find it in myself to bash the Jagr deal. It was bad decisions like that which ultimately led to the team being able to draft guys like Whitney, Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, and whoever's next. The trade itself turned out to be a bad one, but it may very well end up being the move that started the formation of the next Penguins Stanley Cup-winning team.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:19 am

Hockeynut! wrote:Too bad KCon told the Isles that Jagr was a cancer and killed their interest in him. :lol:


Well that cinches it; Patrick is off the hook. The poor return for Jagr is all Constantine's fault. :wink:
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby NIN on Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:22 am

Draftnik wrote:Jagr won 5 Ross trophies.

The real total is over $17M when the $5M cash payment is included. Look at what the Caps had to do to unload Jagr. They are paying 50% of his salary (would have been $5.5M, now is $3.9M) for 3.5 (would have been 4.5 seasons). They were expecting to pay the NYR over $22M to take Jagr off their hands. You are upset that Patrick got 3 scrub prospects and $5M for Jagr? Compare the transactions and Patrick looks like a genius.

Like it or not this is a business, it is not PlayStation. If you don't like the Lemieux Group LLP's strategy of trying to break even or make $$$ then don't buy tickets for their product. The season after the Jagr deal they did try to field a competitive team with Lemieux, Kovy, Straka, Lang, Kaspar, etc. With the arbitration awards to Kovy, Straka, and Lang plus the $5M for Lemieux (Hart finalist previous season) the payroll was the same as Jagr's last season.

Even this season they made an ill fated attempt to entertain fans with the foolish Palffy and Gonchar signings plus some other vets.

Patrick has not been good since the Hedberg trade, but the Lemieux Group LLP has only run the white flag up after the Kovy deal in 03 and for the entire 03/04 season. Other than that they've tried to put an entertaining, competitive product on the ice for the fans.


You havent awnsered anything.

This is about the Penguins trading Jagr, not the Caps. Comparing the two wont save Patrick's job and it is irrelivant to this particular topic.

Jagr carried a contract of $11 million. The $5 million in cash is what threw all other teams out of the picture. Adding Patirck's abyssmal Kucera aquisition further drove any other posible suiters away. Other teams would have taken an interest and COULD HAVE afforded Jagr IF the Pens took some contract money back in return.

OK try to stay with me folks, I know this is complicated for some of you. Eliminate Kucera from the Jagr deal and instead package that mistake with the soon to be moved Straka or Kovalev. So there is money saved right there already.

Next you trade Jagr for 3 young proven NHL players. Lets say there combined contracts total 6 million while Jagr's contract is 11 million. 11-6=5. So that saves you 5 million more and you are gaurenteed 3 NHL quality players instead of 1 probable and 2 long shots. So now you have players A,B, and C for Jagr and for the sake of this example lets say they each make 2 million each. PAY ATTENTION!!

Next you chose player A and package him with Kovalev for some quality checkers, money, and/or prospects. Then you move player B for some cash and/or prospect. What you are left with is a very affordable good, skilled NHL player GAURENTEED for only 2 million less then what the Pens got from the Crapitals and it would be highly likely that better deals would have resulted down the line.

Now some of you like to use the old "this isnt Play Station" line but nobody has yet to see outside the box to understand the brilliant alternative that I have laid out for you. Or else nobody would ever admit that my idea makes more sense, because how could some lame ass message board poster have more brains then a Hall of Fame GM? I am alittle surprised myself. :wink:
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:43 am

NIN wrote:You havent awnsered anything.

This is about the Penguins trading Jagr, not the Caps. Comparing the two wont save Patrick's job and it is irrelivant to this particular topic.

Jagr carried a contract of $11 million. The $5 million in cash is what threw all other teams out of the picture. Adding Patirck's abyssmal Kucera aquisition further drove any other posible suiters away. Other teams would have taken an interest and COULD HAVE afforded Jagr IF the Pens took some contract money back in return.

OK try to stay with me folks, I know this is complicated for some of you. Eliminate Kucera from the Jagr deal and instead package that mistake with the soon to be moved Straka or Kovalev. So there is money saved right there already.

Next you trade Jagr for 3 young proven NHL players. Lets say there combined contracts total 6 million while Jagr's contract is 11 million. 11-6=5. So that saves you 5 million more and you are gaurenteed 3 NHL quality players instead of 1 probable and 2 long shots. So now you have players A,B, and C for Jagr and for the sake of this example lets say they each make 2 million each. PAY ATTENTION!!

Next you chose player A and package him with Kovalev for some quality checkers, money, and/or prospects. Then you move player B for some cash and/or prospect. What you are left with is a very affordable good, skilled NHL player GAURENTEED for only 2 million less then what the Pens got from the Crapitals and it would be highly likely that better deals would have resulted down the line.

Now some of you like to use the old "this isnt Play Station" line but nobody has yet to see outside the box to understand the brilliant alternative that I have laid out for you. Or else nobody would ever admit that my idea makes more sense, because how could some lame ass message board poster have more brains then a Hall of Fame GM? I am alittle surprised myself. :wink:


Get a life and cut the exclamation points. You are not an NHL GM, just some internet poster that fantasizes about being one. The Pens wanted the $5M they got got the Caps. That narrowed the field of suitors to 2 teams. Glen Sather said as much at the time of the trade. The Pens thought they could compete for the Cup in 01/02 by bringing back the entire roster minus Jagr since Lemieux would be playing a full season. They miscalculated.

Patrick knows how to unload contracts of overpaid superstars for young talent. He robbed Boston and NYR in the Stevens/Robitaille/Samuelsson trades when he was not looking to get cash back. He robbed the NYR in the Nedved trade and got $2.5M back so the team could make payroll. Patrick didn't get stupid all of a sudden and forget how he made those trades. The market for teams including cash in deals was nil and Jagr's value depreciated incredibly because of his attitude. He was considered a cancer and liability by most teams. The Caps had to pay the NYR $22.5 mil to take him off their hands. It is relevant to this discussion because it shows how little value Jagr had in the REAL world. You care clueless if you don't understand that the Caps were not asking for cash back when they dealt Jagr to the NYR. They would have gladly traded him for your 3 prime young players. They would have gladly absorbed $6M in salary. Instead they got nothing back and paid the NYR $22.5M to take Jagr off their hands. That is objective EVIDENCE from the marketplace that EMPIRICALLY (look the word up) defines Jagr's true market value.

Go back to your delusional PlayStation life where Jagr trades can be made that don't include $22.5M.
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby NIN on Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:56 am

Draftnik wrote:Go back to your delusional PlayStation life where Jagr trades can be made that don't include $22.5M.



That is so unoriginal. <<<<look it up, you may find a picture of yourself.



Let me start over and break this down alittle. Just humor me here. Could the Pensguins have taken salary back for Jagr?

I know I know his "attitude" is more important then the fact that he won 4 scoring titles and is the best player in the world in your mind. Afterall, the way he carries himself off the ice is far more important then winning socring titles.

Just please let me know if you think at least 4 other teams would have been interested in acquiring Jagr from the Penguins if the Penguins would have taken some NHL salaries in return.
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Postby Steve on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:01 am

this is one of the dumber threads i've read in a while, started by another Playstation GM.
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:07 am

NIN wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Go back to your delusional PlayStation life where Jagr trades can be made that don't include $22.5M.



That is so unoriginal. <<<<look it up, you may find a picture of yourself.



Let me start over and break this down alittle. Just humor me here. Could the Pensguins have taken salary back for Jagr?

I know I know his "attitude" is more important then the fact that he won 4 scoring titles and is the best player in the world in your mind. Afterall, the way he carries himself off the ice is far more important then winning socring titles.

Just please let me know if you think at least 4 other teams would have been interested in acquiring Jagr from the Penguins if the Penguins would have taken some NHL salaries in return.


No, 4 other teams would not be interested in him. He won 5 Ross trophies by the way. I'll repeat it one last time. The Caps gladly would have traded him to any NHL team and taken back other salaries. 29 other NHL teams said no thank you. Instead there was 1 NHL team that said give us $22.5M and we will take Jagr off your hands. That is a fact, not my opinion.
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Re: The Jagr Trade: "A Fistful of Dollars"

Postby NIN on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:13 am

Draftnik wrote:
NIN wrote:
Draftnik wrote:Go back to your delusional PlayStation life where Jagr trades can be made that don't include $22.5M.



That is so unoriginal. <<<<look it up, you may find a picture of yourself.



Let me start over and break this down alittle. Just humor me here. Could the Pensguins have taken salary back for Jagr?

I know I know his "attitude" is more important then the fact that he won 4 scoring titles and is the best player in the world in your mind. Afterall, the way he carries himself off the ice is far more important then winning socring titles.

Just please let me know if you think at least 4 other teams would have been interested in acquiring Jagr from the Penguins if the Penguins would have taken some NHL salaries in return.


No, 4 other teams would not be interested in him. He won 5 Ross trophies by the way. I'll repeat it one last time. The Caps gladly would have traded him to any NHL team and taken back other salaries. 29 other NHL teams said no thank you. Instead there was 1 NHL team that said give us $22.5M and we will take Jagr off your hands. That is a fact, not my opinion.


What your saying is that based on the decreased productivity that Jagr experianced in Washinton combined with the new $11 million/year deal Leonsis gave him (3 mil. more then he made when Patrick dealt him) that Patrick could not have gotten more interest if he was willing to take money BACK as well? :shock: I see who I am dealing with now. Please end this thread Draftnik, I have seen enough stupidity for one morning.
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Postby Pitts on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:15 am

NIN, honestly, the only other team "RUMORED" to have an inkling of interest in Jagr was NYI. No other team was interested in a pouty, former scoring champ who lost his drive to play for $11 mil a year. Patrick's hands were tied.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:22 am

Pitts wrote:NIN, honestly, the only other team "RUMORED" to have an inkling of interest in Jagr was NYI. No other team was interested in a pouty, former scoring champ who lost his drive to play for $11 mil a year. Patrick's hands were tied.


I'll second (third whatever) this statement.

Ask your buddy Madden, ask anyone... We were lucky DC Teddy had more money than brains or the Blue Rags would have been the ONLY team interested.
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