Isles-vs-Pens Official Presidents Day Game thread (2/19/07)

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Postby Sigwolf on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:18 pm

CP2 wrote:That is the stupidest question I have ever heard....I know hockey but I am not a blind homer.


You may not be a blind homer, but you are making an awfully good case for being bi-polar.

In the very same thread that you argue multiple times that the Pens cannot even *consider* sitting Fleury because of a points streak (ignoring the fact that he didn't even play the previous game, or the 1/27 game against Phoenix for that matter), you then pretty much say that Fleury sucks, is holding the team back, and should be benched.
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Postby PensFanBryan on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:19 pm

Deas wrote:What scares me is Crosby's determination in the final shifts of a close game. Look at the Chicago game and now tonight.

Can't wait to see him in the playoffs!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwq7BYOn ... ed&search=

fast foreward to 0:39!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDjG9Xls ... ed&search=

this one too, helps convey my thoughts.
Last edited by PensFanBryan on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby pfim on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:19 pm

Why are we victimizing Nasreddine?

He's been very solid for us and wasn't even on the ice in the last game.

Or against NJ.

In fact, the breakdowns started when he left.


I wouldn't say the breakdowns started when he left. They've been happening for a while. He has slow feet and is brutal with the puck. He's fine if he gets limited EV time and PK time, but frankly, that's not what this team needs.

They need someone to bump Orpik to the 3rd pairing. None of those three can. There is a lack of talent on the blueline and those three are the least talented. He has played well but I don't think anyone should expect that to continue (although after Scuderi's display lately, I'm hoping he does).
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Postby LdubsRoot23 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:20 pm

PensFanBryan wrote:Fleury hasnt played a good game since the Nashville game. This is now 5 consecutive starts he has given up 4 or more goals. How can you defend the way he has been playing? I agree, I dont want to see T-Bo either, but right at this minute, maybe T-Bo is the better play. Yesterday was the only game so far in February that MAF has sat out. Maybe he needs to sit out and rest some more. Can you really blame the Defense on all of those 5 games? I know you cant blame the Offense.


Pens lose in OT to the Hawks without Fleury, as well as Fleury standing on his head late against the Flyers...
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Postby André on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:21 pm

schreibdog wrote:
Deas wrote:Gonchar gives it to Crosby in the corner, gets it back and shoots wide only see Recchi score on the rebound of the board. When did Staal touch it?

I think Staal deflected Gonchar's shot that caused it to go wide?


That would explain it. Oh well.

Damn I wish Sid had scored on that beutiful move in the 2nd =)

God he's good. Game after game after game. He was great last night as well (at least in the 1st). Funny to see how ESPN angeled the headlines about that game (made it sound like Crosby was crappy) and then said he was slumping in the game recap.

Anyone who's watching the games can't be worried about him. He's shooting more now too.

There, I feel better already :)
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Re: Todays Game

Postby CP2 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:22 pm

Pensfan4life27 wrote:Even though today ended the Pens awesome streak at 14-0-2 and keeps us at 5pts behind NJ...there is no reason to point fingers at players...esp. Fluery. You rest Fluery yesterday becuase you played two games within 22 hrs of eachother. The Pens will go down to Florida and play two great games, may not win both, but no teams really ever do when they hit the sunshine state. The Pens will finish in the top 8 and thats all that matters, cause once this team is into the playoffs teams aren't gonna wanna play Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Fluery for 5/7 games.

For all you people who diss Fleury cause he gives up 4/5 goals in a game...lets see you put on the pads and save games standing on your head against top notch nhl players. The Islanders are a very strong offensive team even though their record doesn't necessarily show it. So give Fluery a break...and stop yelling about how you want to trade the whole team...hockey is based on chemistry and attitude....trust me. I've played for 15 yrs now.

Go Pens!


I don't disagree totally. However, you are not by definition an idiot when you critize a 80% save game and lose it in the final 30 seconds.

It is tough when you have the best talent in the laegue not to overreact to a weakness.

This team has dyansty potential. I truly hopes that comes to fruition.
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Postby Pensfan4life27 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:25 pm

Right, but look at every NHL team in any given season....Just about every team maybe one or two don't lose a game with 25 secs left in a game....The way I see it...the Pens weren't suppose to be a threat till next year, they've proven that wrong. They're selling tickets in the arena. People want them to stay. Things are looking up for them. Yeah I'm like every other person who eats sleeps and breaths hockey and gets ticked when they lose, but I also know Fluery is like the Broduer of tomorrow so lol yeah. Its all good though.
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Postby ChiTraderRob on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:27 pm

MarioLemieux1992 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
CP2 wrote:
MarioLemieux1992 wrote:
ChiTraderRob wrote:
CP2 wrote:MAF is the Rex Grossman of the NHL...I am saying we need to get Griese warmed up - just in case.


I guess a Pens loss after a long streak opens the doors to the idiot store.
and CP2 is the CEO


Whatever. :roll: Winning can hide a lot of problems but goaltending is why the Pens can't win the Cup this year.


Stop posting and everyone stop responding to him, he's lost and has no idea how the game works and does not understand how the complicated position of goaltender works...just leave him alone, his soapbox will eventually collapse, Fleury's next game he'll be back on track, he's a fantastic goaltender and very young (check it out, Marty and Patrick Roy, I believe, were just getting started, Fleury has plenty of time ahead of him, I'm not panicking, as a matter of fact, I wish I could get him on a 15 year deal here)
i bet he was one of those kids that would hit the goalie after he covered the puck, well let me tell u something buster, i'm one of those goalies that would kick your ass if you touched me, i'm 7th on my team in penalty mins :oops:



We are cut out of the same cloth brother...No shame in protecting the crease, by any means necessary, including the two hander to the back of the leg.
Last edited by ChiTraderRob on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby André on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:27 pm

MarioLemieux1992 wrote:i could seriously care less how many points sid gets as long as we win


I definetely care. As a fan of the team I'd love to see one of their players get some awards.

Please don't interpret that as me not being as pissed about the loss as anyone else.
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Re: Todays Game

Postby edog on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:28 pm

CP2 wrote:
Pensfan4life27 wrote:Even though today ended the Pens awesome streak at 14-0-2 and keeps us at 5pts behind NJ...there is no reason to point fingers at players...esp. Fluery. You rest Fluery yesterday becuase you played two games within 22 hrs of eachother. The Pens will go down to Florida and play two great games, may not win both, but no teams really ever do when they hit the sunshine state. The Pens will finish in the top 8 and thats all that matters, cause once this team is into the playoffs teams aren't gonna wanna play Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Fluery for 5/7 games.

For all you people who diss Fleury cause he gives up 4/5 goals in a game...lets see you put on the pads and save games standing on your head against top notch nhl players. The Islanders are a very strong offensive team even though their record doesn't necessarily show it. So give Fluery a break...and stop yelling about how you want to trade the whole team...hockey is based on chemistry and attitude....trust me. I've played for 15 yrs now.

Go Pens!


I don't disagree totally. However, you are not by definition an idiot when you critize a 80% save game and lose it in the final 30 seconds.

It is tough when you have the best talent in the laegue not to overreact to a weakness.

This team has dyansty potential. I truly hopes that comes to fruition.


Fleury has reverted back to some bad habits the past few games....however, the defense in front of him has SUCKED all year....
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Postby Gary on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:32 pm

Anyone who thinks Fleury should play on Thursday is ignoring recent history. Fleury is going through a stretch just like he did in December. This is his fourth bad game in a row, and by far the worst. Clearly, he is tired. Heck, he's only had two games off since the All-Star break. He had Sunday off, but still played a 1:00 game the third day after a night game. Fleury got a break in the schedule in mid-December and was rejuvenated. He got a full five days off for the All-Star break and was awesome for several games after that.

You don't think he was tired? Come on! He was late getting across the crease time and again. The first goal was somewhat soft - an unscreened wrister from past the faceoff circle, a one-timer that he was late to cover. The next three were the result of horrible defense, but if he's on his game, he probably stops at least the third of those. The fifth goal was so soft, if it were any softer, it would be liquid. The sixth WAS softer.

On the fifth, the announcer thought it deflected off Eaton's stick. I didn't see it. Fleury was in position, he saw it all the way, and just wiffed. The last goal? Screened? Come on! Again, he saw it all the way and wiffed. Worse than that, it was an OWN GOAL!!!!!!! He could have let it go harmlessly into the corner, but redirected it into his own net . I'm not saying he should have let it go, but you gotta catch that and probably hold on for the faceoff. For the goalie to blow it like that in the final minute, after Crosby worked his butt off, skating circles around the defense, to set up a shot, just sucks.

Absolutely give him the Florida game off. Next Sunday should be about right for him to return. Fleury is not Brodeur; he can't play every game, or even close to it, and it's about time Therrien realized that.
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Postby CP2 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:32 pm

MarioLemieux1992 wrote:
Sigwolf wrote:
CP2 wrote:That is the stupidest question I have ever heard....I know hockey but I am not a blind homer.


You may not be a blind homer, but you are making an awfully good case for being bi-polar.

In the very same thread that you argue multiple times that the Pens cannot even *consider* sitting Fleury because of a points streak (ignoring the fact that he didn't even play the previous game, or the 1/27 game against Phoenix for that matter), you then pretty much say that Fleury sucks, is holding the team back, and should be benched.
:lol: nice


That's before I saw the last 2 periods of this game and when the streak was alive.

What below do people not agree with.

1. Fleury is the Pens best goalie.
2. Fleury is part of the Pens young CORE future (Sid, Geno, Staal, Fleury)
3. He stunk it up today. 6 goals on 30 shots is bad.
4. He has been inconsistent over the streak.
5. He has relied on his offense to bail him out over the last while.
6. Fleury's consistency along with team defense needs to improve before the Pens are a favorite to win the Cup.

If everyone agrees how does MT work with MAF. Does he give him a two game break ? or
put him back in the saddle?

The risk with the latter is the team;s confidence when they are posting goals as they should. Accountability is important.
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Postby pfim on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:37 pm

Accountability is important.


So we won't be seeing half the Pens' defensive core on Wednesday? I don't think accountability is the issue with Fleury.
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Postby Ron` on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:38 pm

Gary, I agree he's tired. The string has run out. Rest him and then let's drive to the home stretch. Tbo played a good game Sunday, I would not be afraid to let Fluery rest for the next two actually.
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Postby CP2 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:48 pm

MarioLemieux1992 wrote:
CP2 wrote:
MarioLemieux1992 wrote:
Sigwolf wrote:
CP2 wrote:That is the stupidest question I have ever heard....I know hockey but I am not a blind homer.


You may not be a blind homer, but you are making an awfully good case for being bi-polar.

In the very same thread that you argue multiple times that the Pens cannot even *consider* sitting Fleury because of a points streak (ignoring the fact that he didn't even play the previous game, or the 1/27 game against Phoenix for that matter), you then pretty much say that Fleury sucks, is holding the team back, and should be benched.
:lol: nice


That's before I saw the last 2 periods of this game and when the streak was alive.

What below do people not agree with.

1. Fleury is the Pens best goalie.
2. Fleury is part of the Pens young CORE future (Sid, Geno, Staal, Fleury)
3. He stunk it up today. 6 goals on 30 shots is bad.
4. He has been inconsistent over the streak.
5. He has relied on his offense to bail him out over the last while.
6. Fleury's consistency along with team defense needs to improve before the Pens are a favorite to win the Cup.

If everyone agrees how does MT work with MAF. Does he give him a two game break ? or
put him back in the saddle?

The risk with the latter is the team;s confidence when they are posting goals as they should. Accountability is important.


1. Fleury is the Pens best goalie.--DUH

2. Fleury is part of the Pens young CORE future (Sid, Geno, Staal, Fleury)--DUH

3. He stunk it up today. 6 goals on 30 shots is bad.--All goalies have bad games

4. He has been inconsistent over the streak.--not really, he has given up alot of goals, but most were NOT his fault

5. He has relied on his offense to bail him out over the last while.--well since the pens have had the lead most of the time...they actually have relied on MAF to keep them in it

6. Fleury's consistency along with team defense needs to improve before the Pens are a favorite to win the Cup.--this tea can win it this year, it will be tough, but it could happen, we could bulk up on D before the trade dead-line


to counter your #4 and #5

a. This is his 5th game in a row alllowing 4 or more.
b. He has not had a game save percentage better than 87.9% over that span.

a+b = cold streak. ITS NOT JUST THE DEFENSE. SV % is a reflection of the goalie.
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Postby CP2 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:49 pm

Ron` wrote:Gary, I agree he's tired. The string has run out. Rest him and then let's drive to the home stretch. Tbo played a good game Sunday, I would not be afraid to let Fluery rest for the next two actually.


Better and more succint than I could have said.
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Postby Gary on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:51 pm

Ron, glad some people agree with me. I wouldn't sit him out all that time, though - seven off days might be a bit too much. I'd play him Sunday, then play him maybe 75% the rest of the way. If T-Bo continues to play like he did yesterday, I wouldn't shy away from using him about one game each series in the playoffs, maybe more if they go to game 6 or 7 or have a long overtime game.
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Postby relantel on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:51 pm

Deas wrote:
And was he really on the ice on all 5 of the Islander's even strength goals? He was on for the Penguins three even strength goals but was a -2 according to ESPN.


Crosby was NOT on the ice for Isles goal #5 - ESPN/TSN are simply repeating the NHL's error by still not having credited players on the ice for the Pens 5th goal - thereby showing him -2 instead of only -1, and thus +13 instead of +14. We're more than an hour after the end of the game, and they still show "Data Pending" for that goal. (Malone's HT goal) Sid being on the ice for that even-strength goal-for is the difference.
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Postby Gary on Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 pm

CP2 wrote:
Ron` wrote:Gary, I agree he's tired. The string has run out. Rest him and then let's drive to the home stretch. Tbo played a good game Sunday, I would not be afraid to let Fluery rest for the next two actually.


Better and more succint than I could have said.


However, I woudn't say he's not a top 15 goalie. When he isn't overused, he's probably top 5. Consider how poor the Pens defense plays. Three of the goals today were completely not his fault. That means the other three were his fault, though.
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