Roberts to Pens?

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Postby EagleMorph on Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:59 pm

I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.
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Postby joopen on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:04 am

EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Welch seems to have lost his appeal to this organization. I think they expected him to be NHL ready for this year and has not developed into what they hoped for at this point in time. They want to use his value to bring in a vet. who can help this team in a playoff series.
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Postby magnum on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:09 am

EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Nobody wants Ouellet. You couldn't trade Ouellet for a 40 year old. Welch at least has upside and potential somewhere. Ouellet is basically a guy that Malkin and Staal have made look serviceable, otherwise he'd have a hard time cracking most rosters (except Gretzky's)

I don't have a problem with trading Welch for Roberts. It doesn't look like it's going to happen but it appears that the organization isn't real happy with his progress and development. It's safe to say that the guy has regressed this year which isn't what you want out of a guy who was suppose to be one of your best defensive prospects.
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Postby ChinookUT on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:11 am

EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Ouellet has shown a lot more promise than Welch. Besides, Shero has yet to make a disappointing move. I trust his judgement as far as Welch is concerned.
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Postby ChinookUT on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:14 am

magnum wrote:Nobody wants Ouellet.


Unless you can speak for league-wide GMs, I'd actually be willing to wager that several GMs wouldn't mind having him on a wait-and-see basis. He had 20 good games straight, and it wasn't because he was winging with Staal and Malkin.
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Postby joopen on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:14 am

ChinookUT wrote:
EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Ouellet has shown a lot more promise than Welch. Besides, Shero has yet to make a disappointing move. I trust his judgement as far as Welch is concerned.


Any GM in hockey knows that Welch has 1000x more promise than Oullet. He has the tool set to be a top 6 FWD but lacks the talent in those tools to actually be a top 6 FWD.
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Postby EagleMorph on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 am

magnum wrote:
EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Nobody wants Ouellet. You couldn't trade Ouellet for a 40 year old. Welch at least has upside and potential somewhere. Ouellet is basically a guy that Malkin and Staal have made look serviceable, otherwise he'd have a hard time cracking most rosters (except Gretzky's)

I don't have a problem with trading Welch for Roberts. It doesn't look like it's going to happen but it appears that the organization isn't real happy with his progress and development. It's safe to say that the guy has regressed this year which isn't what you want out of a guy who was suppose to be one of your best defensive prospects.


I'm just more hesitant to trade a young defenseman with promise and skill, even during a poor year, than I am to trade a winger.
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Postby magnum on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:21 am

ChinookUT wrote:
magnum wrote:Nobody wants Ouellet.


Unless you can speak for league-wide GMs, I'd actually be willing to wager that several GMs wouldn't mind having him on a wait-and-see basis. He had 20 good games straight, and it wasn't because he was winging with Staal and Malkin.


Ouellet has had 20 good game straight because he;s been winging it with Staal and Malkin. The guy hadn't done crap all season until that line was formed. He's slow, poor skater, works the boards poorly, isn't a great playmaker, has a very inaccurate shot, isn't the greatest defensively etc...

Welch has much more potential and promise than Ouellet. He might just need a change of scenery.

Anyways, I'd like to see Ouellet gone too but I trust Shero and Co. in regards to Welch.
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Postby The Snapshot on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:22 am

magnum wrote:I don't have a problem with trading Welch for Roberts. It doesn't look like it's going to happen but it appears that the organization isn't real happy with his progress and development. It's safe to say that the guy has regressed this year which isn't what you want out of a guy who was suppose to be one of your best defensive prospects.


I've said it before, Welch just doesn't look to have the agility that is necessary for a top 4 guy. His skating is okay, but his ability to pivot and turn in the small areas around the net and in the corners seems to be an issue holding him back.

He's big enough, but that has not translated at all into winning the one on ones in his own end. I'm not saying he will not be a top 4 in the league, I'm just not that enamored with him so far in what I've seen.

If he was in Tampa the other night, with his stiff upper body and hips, St. Louis, Richards and LeCavalier would have had a field day - maybe even more than they did with Scudelichar and Eatchar.

By all accounts, last year he was totally dominant at the AHL level, but yet when he came to camp he looked a step slow coming out the corners - even at the Rookie camp against guys nowhere near the NHL speed.

The part that I like best about the idea of trading him in this deal is that it is a significant move that fills a need on the big club, wthout changing a single thing on the current roster.

It allows us to maybe make another move using a young roster player, and only minimally disrupts the current chemistry. If EC or Malone need to be dangled for a Dman, then we have will have added a D and a top 6 forward while only moving one roster player,

I like the idea of addition with minimal subtraction off of an already successful young roster - but one that definately lacks depth of experience. Adding Ekman back in as well will leave Therrien with some good depth and flexibility.
Last edited by The Snapshot on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby magnum on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:23 am

EagleMorph wrote:
magnum wrote:
EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Nobody wants Ouellet. You couldn't trade Ouellet for a 40 year old. Welch at least has upside and potential somewhere. Ouellet is basically a guy that Malkin and Staal have made look serviceable, otherwise he'd have a hard time cracking most rosters (except Gretzky's)

I don't have a problem with trading Welch for Roberts. It doesn't look like it's going to happen but it appears that the organization isn't real happy with his progress and development. It's safe to say that the guy has regressed this year which isn't what you want out of a guy who was suppose to be one of your best defensive prospects.


I'm just more hesitant to trade a young defenseman with promise and skill, even during a poor year, than I am to trade a winger.


I agree with that. I just don't see anyone taking Ouellet straight up for a player. you'd have to throw in more. I'm sure when Shero is negotiating he starts out low and works high. I'd like to think he's thrown Ouellet out there or made it known that he's out there for the offering. I'm not suprised that we haven't heard his name since I can't see someone wanting a player that is borderline NHL caliber.
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Postby KG on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:27 am

I remember at last seasons deadline the Devils dealt a "solid prospect" in Saglubov for UFA Ken Klee. People thought Lou got fleeced. Granted Klee didn't help the devils win a cup, but Lou knows young talent...

I am not saying that RS is Lou, but I do trust his judgment of talent...Just a thought I had.
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Postby Stoosh on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:44 am

A few thoughts...

1. I tried to look this up on the board and I didn't see reports of it, but I may have missed it in one of the 600+ threads, so if I did, excuse me. Anyway, Stan Savran opened up his Sportsbeat show tonight with mention of the Roberts rumor. He updated the situation a little bit with reports of a bit of a hangup in the deal. From what Savran said, he was told that Roberts told the Pens he'd be willing to waive his no-trade clause, but only if he was either given assurances that he would have a contract here next year.

2. I don't get the board's fascination with both Todd Bertuzzi and Owen Nolan. Guerin, I can understand and even Roberts, to some degree, because the guy is a solid playoff performer and I can see the merits to bringing him in. But Nolan and Bertuzzi??? What is this, 2002? Neither Nolan nor Bertuzzi have been impact players for about three or four seasons now.

3. Here's what I've heard about Welch, just to clear some of this up. The organization IS NOT actively shopping him. There has been interest in him from other teams and they are entertaining offers for him, but they are not planning on dealing him unless they get an offer they like. They have NOT given up on him.

Heading into this season, Shero believed his top four defensemen would be Gonchar, Whitney, Eaton and Orpik, with Orpik the one with the least stable foothold on a top four slot. The Pens were hoping that Welch would've stepped up enough in camp to force his way into the top four. That didn't happen...in fact, he looked overwhelmed at times here. So they decided that rather then spending 15 minutes a night on the ice here playing the third defensive pairing, they'd rather have him playing the top pairing at Wilkes-Barre and getting 25+ minutes of ice time a night there.

That was all well and good, but the problems started when Welch began having the same inconsistency issues in the AHL that he was having here. When they sent him dowm, they expected him to dominate at that level, given his experience already earned there. That didn't happen, and in fact, he started to lose some pretty big fights with consistency.

His inability to excel at the AHL level on a consistent level is what has them most concerned. The issue becomes compounded because now the front office isn't sure if he's ready to step in here next year and play well enough to merit even a spot on the third pairing. And after this year, they can't just send him back to Wilkes-Barre. He has to clear waivers if they send him down - something he'll never do if they tried.

So you can see their conundrum here. He's done little if anything to suggest that he's ready to contribute at least at a minimal level here next year, and they can't send him down if he struggles again. This wouldn't be as big an issue if they were still rebuilding, but they are expecting to contend next year.
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Postby careyz8 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:52 am

joopen wrote:
EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Welch seems to have lost his appeal to this organization. I think they expected him to be NHL ready for this year and has not developed into what they hoped for at this point in time. They want to use his value to bring in a vet. who can help this team in a playoff series.


I think its a little hard for a guy who has only played 27 games in the big league for a team to go sour on him. He's only taken a whole 19 shots on goal in his Pitt career. He isnt doing too bad in WBS this year either: 21 pts in 27 games and is a +8. I dont think id give up on him just yet.
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Postby joopen on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:56 am

careyz8 wrote:
joopen wrote:
EagleMorph wrote:I don't like giving up Noah Welch for Roberts.

I don't mind getting Roberts, but I don't think Welch is the right price. It should be Ouellet.


Welch seems to have lost his appeal to this organization. I think they expected him to be NHL ready for this year and has not developed into what they hoped for at this point in time. They want to use his value to bring in a vet. who can help this team in a playoff series.


I think its a little hard for a guy who has only played 27 games in the big league for a team to go sour on him. He's only taken a whole 19 shots on goal in his Pitt career. He isnt doing too bad in WBS this year either: 21 pts in 27 games and is a +8. I dont think id give up on him just yet.


I would restate everything that Stoosh said about Welch above but I will just reference to his post about his inconsistencies in the AHL this year. He played better down there last year and even his few games in the NHL at the end of the year. At that point I was convinced he would be on the opening night roster but he was so inconsistant they just couldn't afford to do so.
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Postby Corvidae on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:59 am

Like I said, Welch is 24 years old and he can't crack the lineup of a team with Scudari and Melichar on the blueline. I wouldn't be upset if he was traded.
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Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:01 am

Corvidae wrote:Like I said, Welch is 24 years old and he can't crack the lineup of a team with Scudari and Melichar on the blueline. I wouldn't be upset if he was traded.


Especially with Letang and Goligoski waiting and Gonch signed long term and Whitney a future star in the league. We don't need Welch anymore.
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Postby crzymike on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:03 am

ITS OFFICIAL! At least according to tsn roberts agreed to waive his no trade clause, hes a PENGUINO!
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Postby minimal on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:06 am

looks like the NTC hurdle is out of the way. I would assume we will not get the details of the trade till tomorrow am.

Lets get a Dman now.
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Postby canaan on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:06 am

crzymike wrote:ITS OFFICIAL! At least according to tsn roberts agreed to waive his no trade clause, hes a PENGUINO!


...details to follow... i really hope that not too much was given up.
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Postby crzymike on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:08 am

I am guessin welch
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Postby magnum on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:08 am

His inability to excel at the AHL level on a consistent level is what has them most concerned. The issue becomes compounded because now the front office isn't sure if he's ready to step in here next year and play well enough to merit even a spot on the third pairing. And after this year, they can't just send him back to Wilkes-Barre. He has to clear waivers if they send him down - something he'll never do if they tried.


Good point that I hadn't seen brought up before about Welch. Didn't even think about about him having to clear waivers next year. If they don't think he'd be able to crack the lineup next year which is reasonable since he';s struggled in WBS and can't beat out Scuderi, Melichar and Nas, then it makes sense to try and trade him and get some sort of return. Not that I was against this, but the waivers thing was something that hadn't been brought up before.

As far as Roberts, I don't see Shero making this deal if it involves signing Roberts. He's being brought in as a rental and nothing more I'd assume and then in the off season Shero goes out and signed a UFA for crosby. Although you'd have wonder that if Recchi can be productive with Sid, maybe Roberts would round out that 2nd line next season and Shero gets that younger UFA for Sid's wing... I dunno.
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Postby magnum on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:14 am

Just saw it on TSN... Good, the suspense can end for Part 1. Roberts is coming, Welch is going, now which direction is Shero taking Malone? Is it for Guerin? Is it for Babchuk? Is it for Boynton? Is it for Miller?
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