Patrick's Deadline Grade:Current Total=C

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Patrick's Deadline Grade:Current Total=C

Postby NIN on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:30 pm

We got 4 very interesting prospects, a bottom end 2nd round pick, and a fourthie for Recchi, Jackman, and Cross! Those are 3 of the worst NHL defensive players you will ever see in your life, not just this season. Recchi and Cross are old and Cross was gone anyways at the end of the season. Recchi might be back next season for less money as a free agent and could be traded at the deadline NEXT season again! Jackman is the only real loss but with Whitney and Gonchar back there he wont be missed offensively. The team will need to start getting some young defenders up here like Welch and Letang to let them know what they need to do over the summer to compete everyday at the nHL level.

What is your grade and why? At the end we will total it up and see what CP scores!! :D
Last edited by NIN on Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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C

Postby Cire7 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:38 pm

I like that we get the Canes 2nd round pick in 2007 because they might not be as good next season as they are this year, plus I heard that the 2006 draft isnt that deep.

I think it is hard to give it a grade, nothing to get to excited about or to disappointed about. With that said I guess I would give him a C
Last edited by Cire7 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:40 pm

Cire7 wrote:I like that we get the Canes 2nd round pick in 2007 because they might not be as good next season as they are this year, plus I heard that the 2006 draft isnt that deep.


That's a good point, I forgot it was for the following draft year! Odds are they wont be as good as they are this season but they are by by means an over the hill team. So what is your report card grade for CP?
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Postby NJ5934 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:43 pm

C-

I think what we ended up with was exactly what we expected, a whole bunch more medicre 3rd-4th liners. I'd take a Downie or Umberger over the whole lot.

That said, I have no idea what offers were out there. So it is what it is.

I think the team improved in claiming Hilbert off waivers and sending Endicott down. This was voided in my mind though by the inability to move Leclair.
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Postby topshelf on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:44 pm

A 'B' is fair.
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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:50 pm

NJ5934 wrote:C-
This was voided in my mind though by the inability to move Leclair.


That took the B+ away from Patrick, moving him would have been nice.
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Postby Jamie on Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:24 pm

My grade is a C+. Patrick did not totally blow it like the Jagr deal. He did nothing however to improve the team for the now. More 3rd 4th line/AHL talent. We have enough of that. What he did do to try to improve the team for next season was to clear salary off of the books. This team has obvious needs, and nothing happened today to address those needs, that is why I give a C+.
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Postby DelPen on Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:48 pm

If C is average then he gets a C. Didn't make a stupid trade like sending away a guy who might be good in a few years for a guy who's OK now. Recchi was clealry the 2nd best forward on the team butwhen was the last time he scored a game winner? I really have no idea. He shows up and scored all of his points when we were already down by 3 or 4 goals.

I don't dislike any moves. They're all mediocre but so what? I am surprised that either CP did not want to move Leclair or no one wanted him. I'm leaning with the former because some team would have wanted Leclair for the playoff run for a late draft pick.

I would have liked to pick up a young RH defenseman that another team may have given up on.
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Postby rb44 on Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:47 pm

Ziggy --- You make no sense

If patrick brought back recchi at a good price and he put up the numbers he has so far this year that be an outstanding move. I hope he does bring him back - just be sure to post a puking of you "puking in your hat"
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Postby Draftnik on Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:56 pm

I give Patrick a D. The 2nd round pick is essentially a 3rd round pick because it is in 2007, not 2006. The rule of thumb in drafts is picks not from the current draft are downgraded a round in trade value. Cross' pick becomes a 5th.

CP picked up a few useless players dumped by at least 2 other teams, some little guy from Sweden that never was mentioned as a top player in Sweden and is too old to be classified as an NHL prospect, and an alleged playmaker that doesn't even average .25 assists per game in the AHL.

For all his faults Recchi was one of the better offensive players available at the deadline. Based on the picks that have been traded for other forwards starting with the Weight deal a 3rd round pick for Recchi seems extremely weak.

The best thing that can be said about today is the Pens don't have to pay Jackman next season and they got a pick for Cross. The return on the Recchi trade is abysmal.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:15 pm

He gets an incomplete.

I mean, come on, he had the worst roster in the league and very little of anything to trade. Besides moving LeClair, (And who knows if he tried and there just weren't nay teams offering more than a roll of tape or two) what would you have wanted him to do?

In investing theres a phrase that's used fairly often... "It takes money to make money"
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Postby DelPen on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:23 am

Draftnik wrote:I give Patrick a D. The 2nd round pick is essentially a 3rd round pick because it is in 2007, not 2006. The rule of thumb in drafts is picks not from the current draft are downgraded a round in trade value. Cross' pick becomes a 5th.

CP picked up a few useless players dumped by at least 2 other teams, some little guy from Sweden that never was mentioned as a top player in Sweden and is too old to be classified as an NHL prospect, and an alleged playmaker that doesn't even average .25 assists per game in the AHL.

For all his faults Recchi was one of the better offensive players available at the deadline. Based on the picks that have been traded for other forwards starting with the Weight deal a 3rd round pick for Recchi seems extremely weak.

The best thing that can be said about today is the Pens don't have to pay Jackman next season and they got a pick for Cross. The return on the Recchi trade is abysmal.


I love how you wrapped up the return for Recchi as a 3rd round pick. You should write talking points for the DNC with that kind of warped logic.
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Postby Hockeynut! on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:36 am

I don't know what the 07 draft looks like but everyone says the 06 draft is the weakest in years. I think getting '07 picks is a good thing in this instance.
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Postby Draftnik on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:38 am

DelPen wrote:I love how you wrapped up the return for Recchi as a 3rd round pick. You should write talking points for the DNC with that kind of warped logic.


Save your political insults for politics. I've worked with lobbyists, former Congressmen and former Congressional staffers representing interests on both sides of the aisle. Their motives are self serving like everybody else. They all lie and none of them care about you or me.

Did you know Kolonos was on waivers multiple times this season? http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2192&hubname=nhl-hurricanes

If the Pens really wanted him they could have claimed him more than once without trading Mark Recchi. Kolonos is worthless. I don't know if you follow the NFL or NHL drafts. Go back through the past drafts or watch this year. The further out a pick is the less value it has. A 2nd round pick in 2007 is worth less than a 2nd round pick in 2006. If you think some 5"11" guy from Sweden that didn't come over to the NHL until he was 26 and scored 4 goals this season is an asset, we can agree to disagree.

Every year there is rejoicing about nothings like little Micki DuPont...
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Postby Draftnik on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:40 am

Hockeynut! wrote:I don't know what the 07 draft looks like but everyone says the 06 draft is the weakest in years. I think getting '07 picks is a good thing in this instance.


The talent at the top end of round 1 drops off significantly after the 1st 3 picks in 06. The 06 forecast isn't a projection of what picks 55-60 look like versus 2007.
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Postby Defence21 on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:45 am

Draftnik wrote:A 2nd round pick in 2007 is worth less than a 2nd round pick in 2006.


Call me stupid, but I don't get this. Sure, the Pens have to wait a year for this pick. But, by all accounts, this year's draft is shallow. What happens if the draft of 2007 is deep? Is this pick still worth less?

To me, you can't judge the value of the pick until the pick is made. Then, you can compare the level of talent drafted at that exact spot in both years. Until then, there is no difference in value other than waiting. Is a prospect like Malkin worth less than a prospect like Whitney, Fleury, etc, because they are closer to being in the NHL (or are in the NHL)? No, so why is a draft pick you have to wait for worse than one this year...other than the waiting aspect?
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Postby Draftnik on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:57 am

Defence21 wrote:
Draftnik wrote:A 2nd round pick in 2007 is worth less than a 2nd round pick in 2006.


Call me stupid, but I don't get this. Sure, the Pens have to wait a year for this pick. But, by all accounts, this year's draft is shallow. What happens if the draft of 2007 is deep? Is this pick still worth less?

To me, you can't judge the value of the pick until the pick is made. Then, you can compare the level of talent drafted at that exact spot in both years. Until then, there is no difference in value other than waiting. Is a prospect like Malkin worth less than a prospect like Whitney, Fleury, etc, because they are closer to being in the NHL (or are in the NHL)? No, so why is a draft pick you have to wait for worse than one this year...other than the waiting aspect?


Watch the draft. You will see teams trade a 2nd round 07 pick for a 3rd round 06 pick for example when they want to target a specific player. Comparing named players to picks is not an apples to apples comparison. The value of the unnamed asset declines the further out it is on the timeline. The comments about the 06 draft are about the talent falloff in the 1st round after the top 3.
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Postby Defence21 on Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:45 am

Draftnik wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Draftnik wrote:A 2nd round pick in 2007 is worth less than a 2nd round pick in 2006.


Call me stupid, but I don't get this. Sure, the Pens have to wait a year for this pick. But, by all accounts, this year's draft is shallow. What happens if the draft of 2007 is deep? Is this pick still worth less?

To me, you can't judge the value of the pick until the pick is made. Then, you can compare the level of talent drafted at that exact spot in both years. Until then, there is no difference in value other than waiting. Is a prospect like Malkin worth less than a prospect like Whitney, Fleury, etc, because they are closer to being in the NHL (or are in the NHL)? No, so why is a draft pick you have to wait for worse than one this year...other than the waiting aspect?


Watch the draft. You will see teams trade a 2nd round 07 pick for a 3rd round 06 pick for example when they want to target a specific player. Comparing named players to picks is not an apples to apples comparison. The value of the unnamed asset declines the further out it is on the timeline. The comments about the 06 draft are about the talent falloff in the 1st round after the top 3.


Okay, I see what you are saying. But I think that says more about an immediate need than actual value. As I said before, there's no way to compare the actual value until both drafts have been completed, so a comparison of the players selected can be made. Sure, teams will trade down a year later to get a higher pick this year, but it is generally because of coveting a specific player or someting on those lines. So, while it stinks this draft pick isn't for 06, it is still a 2nd rounder and will still be taken within the top 60 picks, not 90.
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Postby Zscout on Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:02 am

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/penguinslive/s_431786.html

In all, they get four forwards, ages 22-26, who've played a combined 227 NHL games with 29 goals and 27 assists...


Recchi, who was an alternate captain, has 24 goals and 33 assists for 57 points in 63 games....


The numbers speak for themselves.
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:57 am

Zscout wrote:http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/penguinslive/s_431786.html

In all, they get four forwards, ages 22-26, who've played a combined 227 NHL games with 29 goals and 27 assists...


Recchi, who was an alternate captain, has 24 goals and 33 assists for 57 points in 63 games....


The numbers speak for themselves.


Im guessing that's an "E"? Or are you happy that they found somebody willing to give up any kind of quality youth for a 38 year old -28 player?
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Postby Zscout on Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:31 pm

NIN wrote:
Zscout wrote:http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/penguinslive/s_431786.html

In all, they get four forwards, ages 22-26, who've played a combined 227 NHL games with 29 goals and 27 assists...


Recchi, who was an alternate captain, has 24 goals and 33 assists for 57 points in 63 games....


The numbers speak for themselves.


Im guessing that's an "E"? Or are you happy that they found somebody willing to give up any kind of quality youth for a 38 year old -28 player?


What quality? The Penguins gave up a quality player and got nothing but two jobbers back (and a 2007 draft pick). It is a horrible deal. The team is not better because of the deal. Recchi had interest from six teams, they abviously weren't serious offers if this is all Patrick could get for him.
The grade on that trade is an F. The Pens add two other jobbers that will not improve the team. None of these deals make the team better now or in the future.
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Postby NIN on Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:12 am

Zscout wrote:What quality? The Penguins gave up a quality player and got nothing but two jobbers back (and a 2007 draft pick). It is a horrible deal. The team is not better because of the deal. Recchi had interest from six teams, they abviously weren't serious offers if this is all Patrick could get for him.
The grade on that trade is an F. The Pens add two other jobbers that will not improve the team. None of these deals make the team better now or in the future.


They don't make the team any better in the future? How does gaining a top 3 round pick not help the future? That alone is worth a washed up old slacker. DO you actually think the Canes will even win a round with Recchi? :lol:

Seriously Z, they got 2 players ON TOP of what I consider to be more than an equal return already. From what I understand both of those guys are gammers who don't phone in shifts and understand the value of backchecking and puck pursuit. Of course I havent seen either play more than a shift or two and I am sure you havent either. Lets see what they all bring to the team over the final 20 games and then form an opinion.

I'll have no problem bashing CP if none of those players become steady NHL contributers by beating out guys like Koltsov, Malone, Rita, Ouellete, etc. for an NHL job. Nobody on this team besides maybe 6 players are keepers and if these guys want to come here and play hard every game and earn a spot than that is good for eveybody.

IT's easy to follow all the whiney ******** on this board who are complaining before even watching these guys skate a shift. I may bash those players too but it doesnt matter because the draft pick is more than enough for Recchi. An old floater who is far more concerned with his personal stats then winning. Just watch how the best team in hockey gets bumped early.
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Postby Stevens25 on Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:58 am

Eh,I'd give him a C-. These players are mainly bit players and we have yet to see if they can really be able to contribute over the next few years. With the exception of Recchi,however,we didn't really give up all that much.
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Postby netwolf on Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:10 am

I go C+. He didn't give up much and didn't bring much back. He was able to get a 4th rounder out of Cross and might have acquired other assets that could come in handy later. Mikael Samulesson was a throw in and he ended up being what enable the Pens to trade up and take Fleury.

The most valuable quantity they lost was 5-6 weeks of Recchi, and it's not like they were winning with him here. If they had kept him, they would also have to pay him $2.3 mill next year. Assuming Carolina does not elect that option and the Pens want him back, I have to believe it will be at a much lower price.
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