Red Line Reports: Draft Break Down

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Red Line Reports: Draft Break Down

Postby Ironhorse on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:37 pm

RLR indicates that there is a top four tier group this draft:

Tier 1: Erik Johnson (D); Phil Kessel (C); and Jonathan Toews (C). They indicate that Toews is the best all-round forward in the duerby.

Tier 2: Stall (C); Backstrom (RW); Mueller (C); and Tiusty. The order is a crap shoot.

Tier 3: Brassard (C); Frolik ((RW); Bryan Little (C); Nigel Williams (D); Forney (RW)(the rawest gem and the darkhorse of the bunch); and gritty Kyle Okposo (RW).

Tier 4: Wusgare (D); Sheppart (C); Summers (D); and Mitera (D).

Tier 5: The rest of the draft. They affirm agin that this is not a deep draft. So I'd take any of the top three and be happy but perhaps I've switched my thinking and would lean to Toes as he is described as the best all-round forward. FYI
Ironhorse
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Minor correction

Postby Ironhorse on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:39 pm

Tier 4--the first kid is Ty Wishart. Sorry about that.
Ironhorse
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:42 pm

Did you receive the March issue today?
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Yes. Came in the mail today.

Postby Ironhorse on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:48 pm

See above
Ironhorse
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Postby borohcky9 on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:49 pm

I would not take Toews, he maybe the best all around forward, but we are not in need of that anymore....we already have 2 premier all around awesome players in Malkin and Crosby.

We either need a legitimate #1 D or a flashy goal scoring winger.

So you will either take Kessel or Johnson, no matter what.
borohcky9
 

Sorry-trying to learn the new board

Postby Ironhorse on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:49 pm

Yes, it came in the mail today.
Ironhorse
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:59 pm

Friends of mine at the old Minot AFB have told me Forney is impressive. Supposividly the kid wasn't serious about hockey until about two years ago. (He was a big football player). I'm told the kid LIKES contact. Awesome.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby MrKnowNothing on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:01 pm

If we can't get Johnson, I would like Backstrom. His stock seems to really be rising right now.

Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category, IMO. From various things I've read, I prefer Frolik, but I'd steer clear of either if I could pick Johnson, Backstrom, or Toews.

Staal as well, but I like a mention I've seen made by a guy on another board of if we are in position to pick Staal, see if Carolina wants to put them together and would offer Johnson up. I doubt they would, but I'd take that in a heartbeat.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby DelPen on Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:14 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:If we can't get Johnson, I would like Backstrom. His stock seems to really be rising right now.

Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category, IMO. From various things I've read, I prefer Frolik, but I'd steer clear of either if I could pick Johnson, Backstrom, or Toews.

Staal as well, but I like a mention I've seen made by a guy on another board of if we are in position to pick Staal, see if Carolina wants to put them together and would offer Johnson up. I doubt they would, but I'd take that in a heartbeat.


I'd take Kessel. We need players now and I don't care if he's rushed but Kessel could probably play in the NHL next year with Crosby and Armstrong. As big of a stud I think Erik Johnson will be I don't want to wait 3 or 4 yars to see it. Next season could be the last in Pittsburgh and I want them to go down with guns blazing.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,335
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Postby Defence21 on Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:31 pm

DelPen wrote:I'd take Kessel. We need players now and I don't care if he's rushed but Kessel could probably play in the NHL next year with Crosby and Armstrong. As big of a stud I think Erik Johnson will be I don't want to wait 3 or 4 yars to see it. Next season could be the last in Pittsburgh and I want them to go down with guns blazing.

Exactly. I want to see Kessel or have the pick traded. If the team leaves Pittsburgh, what good will Johnson be? On the other hand, if they stay in Pittsburgh, it would be great to have him in 3-4 years.

Still, I'd rather see them get some immediate help by drafting Kessel or trading the pick to add a winger. If Fleury turns into the goalie he is supposed to be, the Pens can build a defense on free agents, as the Devils often do. Keep in mind that Orpik, Whitney, Welch, Bissonette, Lannon, etc all have potential to be solid NHL regulars. Whether they become top-end or bottom-end players isn't known, but there is plenty of young defense in the organization and there is potential to sign free agents as well.

My point is that I'd much rather see an upgrade in the offense, because what you see is basically what you get. There aren't many offensive prospects left in the system that are near being NHL-ready. The help needs to come now.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,831
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Postby MrKnowNothing on Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:43 pm

DelPen wrote:
MrKnowNothing wrote:If we can't get Johnson, I would like Backstrom. His stock seems to really be rising right now.

Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category, IMO. From various things I've read, I prefer Frolik, but I'd steer clear of either if I could pick Johnson, Backstrom, or Toews.

Staal as well, but I like a mention I've seen made by a guy on another board of if we are in position to pick Staal, see if Carolina wants to put them together and would offer Johnson up. I doubt they would, but I'd take that in a heartbeat.


I'd take Kessel. We need players now and I don't care if he's rushed but Kessel could probably play in the NHL next year with Crosby and Armstrong. As big of a stud I think Erik Johnson will be I don't want to wait 3 or 4 yars to see it. Next season could be the last in Pittsburgh and I want them to go down with guns blazing.


I think both of them (Kessel and Johnson) probably need at least a year in college, more for Johnson obviously.

That is a reason why I am taking a liking to Backstrom. Like I said, his stock seems to be rising right now, and he is performing regularly in the SEL. He isn't a third/fourth liner just in the league with potential he shows at tournaments like a lot of Euro prospects are, he is actually establishing himself in a pro league.

That makes me question whether he might be ready to step right in right away.

I do agree with your general statement that we need something pretty quickly, but like I said, unless I was fourth or fifth, I think I would steer clear of both Kessel and Frolik.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby Reilly on Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:45 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category

and you're basing this claim of what exactly?
Reilly
 

Postby MariosMilitia on Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:51 pm

take Toews, plan and simple
MariosMilitia
 

Postby MrKnowNothing on Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:45 am

Reilly wrote:
MrKnowNothing wrote:Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category

and you're basing this claim of what exactly?


IMO is internet lingo for in my opinion.

But I don't think I need to tell you that.

Coincidently, the letters IMO appear right after the end of that quote, before the end of the sentence, which you either missed or left out.

Regardless, I'll answer it anyways. I think that they are either going to end up as top line players in the league or busts, Kessel especially. Both have very good skillsets but have been hard to figure out at times. Frolik is said to be solid defensively, so maybe boom or bust is not the right label.

But I think those players are more riskier picks that Toews, Johnson, Staal, and Backstrom right now. I admittedly have not read a whole lot about this year's draft, and I notice that my opinions early in the year about draft players usually are changed in June, but that is my early impression based on the stuff I have read.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby ShaPe on Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:46 am

I have seen Bäckström play in a couple of times. He is the best player in this draft. I've seen him since he was 16 playing in the SEL. I dont get why he isnt ranked higher. From what I've seen from Kessel, his not as good as Bäckström. He is doing stuff at his age that only players like Zetterberg have done before in Sweden.
The only thing that would be bad is if pens pick him and they want him to come over. The thing that they did with Salmsonsson. Let Bäckström play 1-2seasons here, become a huge star and then let him come to pens. He is worth taking 1st overall imo.
He was Brynäs(his team) best player last season when the SEL was full of nhl players and he stood out.
ShaPe
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:32 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Postby NJ5934 on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:02 am

I don't see what the debate is here. What we desperately need can be partially filled in either Kessel or Johnson.

Unless we fall down the chain a bit, I see no debate.

I seriously doubt we will be offered anyone in trade that shows the scoring potential that Kessel does. We are not going to get offered Hossa or Gaborik to trade down. I was initially high on Staal and the possibility of moving down, but the more I read into the draft the more I see no point of looking past the top two (if in fact, they are available to us).

We draft Johnson or Kessel, case closed.
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,843
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

Postby Reilly on Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:25 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:
Reilly wrote:
MrKnowNothing wrote:Kessel and Frolik both fall into the boom or bust category

and you're basing this claim of what exactly?


IMO is internet lingo for in my opinion.

But I don't think I need to tell you that.

Coincidently, the letters IMO appear right after the end of that quote, before the end of the sentence, which you either missed or left out.




"IMO" doesn't do anything to validate your arguement. I mean, that's great that you think that way, but explaining why helps the discussion go along.

MrKnowNothing wrote:Regardless, I'll answer it anyways. I think that they are either going to end up as top line players in the league or busts, Kessel especially.



I fail to see how Kessel is a more risker pick than a player who hasen't even played in college yet.
Reilly
 

Postby NIN on Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:33 pm

Hmmmmmm....so trading down to the fourth seed is still a safe bet to get Staal......hmmmmm...yes......
NIN
 

Postby DelPen on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:46 pm

ziggystardust wrote:I think Kessel is considered a higher risk pick because he is so one dimensional. He isn't viewed as a playmaker. He isn't viewed as a gritty player. He isn't viewed as a two-way player. He's viewed as a goal scorer, a player who can beat his defender... if maybe his shot just isn't sharp enough or his legs just not quick enough he could faulter in the NHL.

I'm not saying I agree with this, I think he'll be a good offensive player... just trying sayin what I think they're thinkin.

Personally, I would draft Johnson. Tremendous two way defenseman make good teams great.


Considering we have no goal scorers in the organization I see no issue with Kessel being one dimensional especially when he's playing with world-class playmakers in either Crosby or Malkin.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 33,335
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

It is not a two man race

Postby Ironhorse on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:56 pm

RLR concludes, this is not a two man race like everyone thinks. The March edition clearly concludes the top three of Erik Johnson (D); Phil Kessel (C); and Jonathan Toews (C) can go 1, 2, or 3. There is not much difference in talent just what a team wants or needs. Best D, Best crorer, or best all around talent. Kessel might be soft and only a scorer. Do we want that like we have complained about in the past? Unless you want the D, and that is a good possibility and need, we might actually benefit from Toews for his all around scoring and Defensive play. The more I read the more I might lean that way if I was drafting in the top 3. That said, nothing we conclude will result in having any influence on the pick. Nonetheless, I'll be at the beach during the draft and will spend several hours, as normal, watching the draft.!!!!!!!
Ironhorse
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 am
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Postby MrKnowNothing on Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:22 pm

Reilly wrote:
MrKnowNothing wrote:Regardless, I'll answer it anyways. I think that they are either going to end up as top line players in the league or busts, Kessel especially.



I fail to see how Kessel is a more risker pick than a player who hasen't even played in college yet.


Are you talking about Erik Johnson? I don't really know what you mean.

Either way, I don't think Kessel playing in college has anything to do with him being a safer pick. The reason I say that is because the way Kessel plays, to me, indicates that in the NHL, he will end up being a big offensive player or a relative bust.

I guess that could sort of be said for a lot of high picks, but I just don't like Kessel all around as much as some of the other players. He does not seem to use teammates well.

Right now my early favorite in this draft is Backstrom. I think he is being underrated for some reason, but his stock is skyrocketing. He is the offensive player who seems to be playing the most consistently at a high level of play - in a pro league nonetheless. He exceeds in the tournaments and is established in the SEL. I can't really understand why he is in the "second tier" of this draft. He is good all around for his age, has a good skillset, average size.

Johnson is probably the best pick if you are first right now, but I think Backstrom could contribute earlier.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:24 am

ziggystardust wrote:I don't think you need elite goal scorers to win.


With the roster the Pens have and the guys presently in their system, I would settle for a decent goal scorer or even a couple of average ones. :?
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,347
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:25 am

I agree about the optimism on Rita, but I think what they are saying is that they would like an elite goal scorer.

I hate to make the comparison to the Flyers, but someone to be Forsberg's (Crosby's) Gagne.

I think we have some good offensive players in the system, although we could use a true elite goal-scoring talent. But with Crosby and Malkin, I'm not exactly sure how much that even matters.

In the end, the Pens should go with their BPA. That is the best drafting strategy in any year. We do need help now to join this young squad and not in a few years, but that is the GM's job to take care of. The scouts job is to try to get the best asset they can.

It's a little pointless to speculate about who we might get right now. This is the time that the talk usually begins, but things always change based on what happens in the pro standings and how the prospects finish out the year. When the NHL playoffs are going on, and we know which two spots we will end up having one of, then it might be time to pick a few favorites. As it stands right now we will be 1 or 2. If it was #1, I think I would take Johnson. If it was #2, I would take Backstrom.

My ideal situation would be somehow weaseling Jack Johnson out of Carolina. But I sincerely doubt that could happen unless we traded Malkin, which shouldn't (and probably wouldn't) happen. In retrospect, I wonder if we traded Recchi + our first pick this year for Johnson if they'd accept. I doubt it.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:10 am

ziggystardust wrote:Sid, Malkin, Armstrong, Ouellet, Christensen, Rita...
that is actually a ton of talent and plenty of offensive firepower.

Before you say anything about me jumping on the Rita bang-wagon already (if there even is one) I think I should say that the guy has always had boat-loads of ability. Now that he's away from Mac and the Oil, I think he will really show it. He's been nothing short of amazing these past two games with Sid.


So are you saying you are comfortable that most of those guys will continue to score at their current rates? I'm not. Malkin isn't here yet, but I do think he's the real deal. Crosby will be a reliable scorer for a decade or more. I'm not so sure about the others. They might be, or they might fizzle out. Last season, Malone (who may or may not be having a bad year) looked as good or better in thsi league than anyone on your list not named Crosby and look at the season he's had, current stretch notwithstanding.

Maybe I should have qualified my earlier statement by thrown a "proven" into the mix.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,347
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby Daniel on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:01 pm

I think if you look at the Pens prospects, they have plenty of scoring forwards, just not an elite scorer. I think Armstrong is the real deal, even though he needs to add some muscle. People on this board have praised Filewich. We know Christenson has a nice shot and I think Salmonsson will be a good scorer. If nothing else, those four would help. I think Malone, Surovy, Ouellet will add scoring depth.

I think the biggest thing is the fact that Malkin and Crosby could make you and me into 20 goal scorers. Especially Malkin, I was really impressed with him in the Olympics.
Daniel
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,109
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

e-mail