The arena issue is a mess, its soon to be a disaster

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The arena issue is a mess, its soon to be a disaster

Postby Scott on Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:54 pm

Rendell wants to propose a plan to the Pens for a new arena.

IOC will throw a fit if they propose a plan b.

Pens can't support a plan b, nor the NHL, even behind closed doors as this will tarnish the IOC proposal. That is really the carrot on the end of the stick with the IOC. New public arena. It sells a lot better than the good they will do for the hill district. "Public ARENA" is the selling component of their plan. It has teeth. There are people that have no idea how dire the Hill is in need of some life put into it. For them to focus on developing that area will only net positives from people who actually have seen the ugliness firsthand.

If the NHL says this deal on behalf of the Penguins looks great, then it basically kills the IOC plan.

It gets even worse.
Say the plan b comes out. Pens say they can't accept it, then they get the black eye. People not aware of all the facts will curse the Pens forever. Rendell can say, I gave them a plan for an arena and they said no. If they leave, then it is not our fault.

Rendell can do a plan b and for the Pens and it can be no better of a deal than what they have now. Again, if the Pens decline, who looks like the ass?

This thing is a mess now. Leave the hip waders in the closet. Get the chest waders out for where this is leading.
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:59 pm

I think the public is far more educated on this matter than you give them credit for. Everyone sees Rendell as the shiester he is. Most of the public know IoC's arena would be free and Rendell's would cost us money in the form of taxes....which do you think the public would support? I also think they understand for the most part, why the Pen's cannot entertain a plan B right now.

The PR campaign is far from over. Just because Rendell is formulating a plan based on tax money does not mean it will fly.
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Postby Scott on Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:09 pm

Pitts wrote:I think the public is far more educated on this matter than you give them credit for. Everyone sees Rendell as the shiester he is. Most of the public know IoC's arena would be free and Rendell's would cost us money in the form of taxes....which do you think the public would support? I also think they understand for the most part, why the Pen's cannot entertain a plan B right now.

The PR campaign is far from over. Just because Rendell is formulating a plan based on tax money does not mean it will fly.


The people in our region understand, but we really need people from all over to understand. They dont/cant as they just dont see it for themselves.

How many people come here and love station square, but don't care about the rest of the city. Trust me, there are more than you think.

If they here of the two locations for the plans, which one do you think they will back?

Educated on this matter? Not even close. Call some people not from the region and ask them what they know about this. Don't be surprised if the facts are few.
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Postby DayWalker on Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:13 pm

Scott hit it on the head.

When FCE/Harrah's gets the license, and a Plan B is unveiled (a plan not unlike the one offered to the Pirates and Steelers), I have a feeling current Penguins ownership or whomever owns the team at the time is going to say no. Why pay any money for an arena here when they can get a new one, free-of-charge, elsewhere?

Mario and the Penguins are the bad guys to non-LGP posters, and Rendell et al are of the hook for the majority of the voting public for not spending taxpayer dollars on what too many people view as spoiled millionaires.
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Re: The arena issue is a mess, its soon to be a disaster

Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:24 pm

Scott wrote:The arena issue is a mess, its soon to be a disaster


There was lightening last night, so I hope you stayed inside your house. When it got dark it looked like the sky was falling.
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Postby Draftnik on Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:26 pm

DayWalker wrote:Why pay any money for an arena here when they can get a new one, free-of-charge, elsewhere?


What arena can they move to and get to control all the revenue streams by managing the facility and profiting off concerts, tractor pulls, etc?

KC, no. Houston, no. Portland, no. Winnipeg, no.

Please tell me where they will make more $$$ off an arena and also what city has a passionate hockey base that enables them to get a $10M per season RSN contract.
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Postby DayWalker on Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:36 pm

Draftnik wrote:
DayWalker wrote:Why pay any money for an arena here when they can get a new one, free-of-charge, elsewhere?


What arena can they move to and get to control all the revenue streams by managing the facility and profiting off concerts, tractor pulls, etc?

KC, no. Houston, no. Portland, no. Winnipeg, no.

Please tell me where they will make more $$$ off an arena and also what city has a passionate hockey base that enables them to get a $10M per season RSN contract.


The owners here in Pittsburgh-whomever they are-will know with absolute certainty that they will get that kind of sweetheart deal from the Sports and Exhibition Authority in Allegheny County? Will that offset the ability to make money immediately in another venue? Will that offset the fact that they will have to pony up "X" millions of dollare here, especially if some of that comes from naming rights or other revenue streams, when they won't have to elsewhere? Will they obtain as much luxury-box revenue here as they will in, say, the Toyota Center?

I am unconvinced of that.
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Postby pfim on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:37 pm

The owners here in Pittsburgh-whomever they are-will know with absolute certainty that they will get that kind of sweetheart deal from the Sports and Exhibition Authority in Allegheny County?


This is the one of the biggest reasons why they want a new arena. They won't have to share luxury box revenue with a 7'5" Chinese man either, most arenas lease luxury boxes for the year for all events.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:48 pm

Onorato is now in the Pens' corner, and Rendell needs this problem solved. It doesn't do him any good to just fake it; nobody will fall for that. There is no reason at all to think that the Pens will get a different sort of deal than the Steelers or Pirates.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom at this point. There's too much momentum to be negative at this point, especially with the PG speaking out.
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Postby skullman80 on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:26 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:Onorato is now in the Pens' corner, and Rendell needs this problem solved. It doesn't do him any good to just fake it; nobody will fall for that. There is no reason at all to think that the Pens will get a different sort of deal than the Steelers or Pirates.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom at this point. There's too much momentum to be negative at this point, especially with the PG speaking out.


I won't feel relieved until I see a shovel in the ground.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:36 pm

Oh, neither will I. I"m just cautiously optimistic. There's many more chapters yet to be written in this sordid tale.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:40 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:Oh, neither will I. I"m just cautiously optimistic. There's many more chapters yet to be written in this sordid tale.



DUHN DUHN DUHHHHHHNNNNNN
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Postby skullman80 on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:41 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:Oh, neither will I. I"m just cautiously optimistic. There's many more chapters yet to be written in this sordid tale.


Yeah I am more optimistic then I was before, but there is still that part of me that is just like....eh :(
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Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:12 am

bill from turtle creek wrote:Oh, neither will I. I"m just cautiously optimistic. There's many more chapters yet to be written in this sordid tale.


I think that's a pretty fair assessment of things. They are looking up, even from two weeks ago, but there is still a long way to go.
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Postby Sleestak on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:43 am

Well I don't share the optimism some of you have. No matter what anyone thinks, no one knows if the Pens are willing to pay ANY money (the rumored 40 million) for a deal like the Pirates and Steelers got.

It's important to the issue that we tell everyone that the Penguins were told time and time again there was NO money for a new arena ANYWHERE.

They found their own way and I support it wholeheartedly.

We have to make sure the Pens aren't going to look like the bad guy when they say "no" to putting up their own money.

If Station Square gets the plan, which they will, Rendell will offer up his dysfunctional plan B, the pens will refuse to pay, and I won't blame them for a single second.

Rendell is a FILTHY politician. He said there was no money. Where is it coming from? We need to express this to every ignorant mind. People think the IoC plan is tax based, instead, it's Rendell's plan that will be tax based.

Educate everyone. It's important to our city.
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Postby KCHockey on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:37 pm

What arena can they move to and get to control all the revenue streams by managing the facility and profiting off concerts, tractor pulls, etc?

KC, no. Houston, no. Portland, no. Winnipeg, no.


Actually, in KC a team wouldn't manage the facility, however without a lease agreement, you can't say a team wouldn't get SOME of the revenue from other events.

AEG didn't put $50 mill into the Sprint Center for it to sit vacant until the Big XII basketball tournament rolls around.

It's possible that the major tennant WILL get control of SOME revenue from other events. Karamanos' agreement in Raleigh allows him to receive some revenue from other events, like NCState basketball.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:56 pm

KCHockey wrote:AEG didn't put $50 mill into the Sprint Center for it to sit vacant until the Big XII basketball tournament rolls around.

It's possible that the major tennant WILL get control of SOME revenue from other events. Karamanos' agreement in Raleigh allows him to receive some revenue from other events, like NCState basketball.


AEG put $50M into the facility so they could run it. That is one of their primary businesses. They not only want to get their investment back but want to make a profit. I agree they are in a catch 22 situation without a primary tenant, but if the Pens get the IoC deal or the same deal as the Pirates they can put ~ $40M into a building and get 100% of the revenue streams for 30 years. They will not get that deal from any other city.

I'm not aware of a private investor putting $$$ into the RBC Center. Karmanos may have put $$$ in so that is why he would get $$$ back. The facility is on the NCSt campus, so it may have been constructed entirely with state and State (NCSt) $$$.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:18 pm

Maybe the Jailblazers can move to KC. There is talk Allen may declare bankruptcy on his Blazer holding company to invalidate the Rose Garden lease:

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/sports/1142394929246400.xml&coll=7
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:37 pm

We are probably lucky in that there does not appear to be a perfect location for the Pens to move to, financially, that is any better than here, so long as the new arena gets built. On paper, at least, the best deal they will get is probably the one they will get here, all things considered.
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