Unofficial Game Thread - Pens @ Devils

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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:50 pm

This was the worst game Crosby has played so far. No big deal but he just did'nt have his head in the game the whole time. Just some more growing pains, no big deal.

The Devils slowly took over the N-zone. The Penguins were trapping them but the Devils corrected it halfway through the first and then took over.

Fleury played exceptional again, but he should try to copy Broduers puckhandleing style. Fleury needs to upgrade his game in that department.

Whitney is going to be VERY good for a long while. The Pens have all the key roles filled for the future.
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Devils got the kind of 2004 officiating they needed to win.

Postby Southern Fan on Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:55 pm

I lot of interfering, obstruction, slowing players without the puck. Perfect type of Devils. Tough to beat them when the refs call that style.
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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:12 pm

ziggystardust wrote:
DelPen wrote:
ziggystardust wrote:big juicey rebound.


And a horrible clearing attempt by Melichar. Beutiful shot by Madden though.



lol just saw the reply.

you're an idiot.


Looked like the Devils lost Rita and gained thew line and Rita guessed wrong and truned away from the action and picked off Melicar who was trying to cover for him. Easy shot but a bad rebound by MAF and Madden let go a nice shot before anyone could get enough of him.

So why do you let these guys push that Melicar button of yours? :)
NIN
 

Postby Southern Fan on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:15 pm

I guess Crosby wasn't the only rookie out there needing to fine tune his approach to the game. I guess St. Laurent is using the opposite approach now.


From a December 24, 2005 game

Panthers cry foul after lossFlorida, called for 17 penalties, directed its ire at rookie official Francois St. Laurent. 'I haven't seen a game called like that in long time,' Gary Roberts said.BY KEVIN BAXTERkbaxter@MiamiHerald.comRALEIGH, N.C. - The way Sean Hill figures it, referee Francois St. Laurent was probably just trying to make a name for himself Friday. And if that's the case, he succeeded.

Only problem is, none of those names can be repeated in a family newspaper -- not after the rookie official worked a game in which season-high 17 penalties were called on the Panthers in a frustrating 4-3 loss to the Carolina Hurricanes at RBC Center.
''That was embarrassing. That's all I'm going to say,'' Hill said. ``I don't think it would have mattered what we did tonight.''
''I haven't seen a game called like that in long time,'' added Gary Roberts, who scored one goal, assisted on another and had a chance to tie the game in the final minute but couldn't get Stephen Weiss' perfect pass into an open net. ``That was over the top.''
And at the center of the storm was St. Laurent, a minor-league referee working just his third NHL game because an injury sidelined regularly scheduled official Rob Shick.

''Our penalty killing, for most of the game I thought we did a good job,'' coach Jacques Martin said. ``[But] it really overtaxed certain players.''

By then, frustration had already began to boil over, with the Panthers bench barking at St. Laurent after Chris Gratton was called for a high stick 1:29 into the final period -- nearly drawing a bench minor -- and with Martin Gelinas calling St. Laurent to the penalty box for an explanation of an interference call less than five minutes later.
Jokinen, the Panthers captain, said he sought an explanation from the official during the first intermission and St. Laurent told him he would ``be going by the rule book.''

Added Hill: ``It's tough any time you're that young in your career.
``I'm sure he wants to call everything exactly by the new rules so he gets noticed.''
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Postby netwolf on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:19 pm

Another great job by the PK. They killed off all 6 NJ powerplays. Unfortunately, they could not do anything with the three chances of their own. Is that 3 games in a rown with no PPG against? :shock:

Very good game by Fleury. Big save on a scramble early and stopped Elias on breakways twice. I think he'd like to have the rebound back on the 1st NJ goal, but at the same time, that's a rebound the defense has to clear. Maybe they would have if not for two Pens running into each other and giving Madden some open ice.

It was a little disappointing to see that come out the way they did, then fail to duplicate that in either the 2nd or 3rd. Overall, they were competitive which is a good step forward.

Therien was working the referees after the game saying (I'm paraphrasing here) "We know we aren't going to make the playoffs and we're not complaining about the calls we get. We are frustrated that we don't always get the call that could change the game. The referee just stands there looking."

Also said "[Crosby] can take a cheapshot as long as there is a call, but there's no call."
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Postby Southern Fan on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:20 pm

Not to beat a dead horse, but how can guys like this get to ref in th eNHL when they can't even ref an AHL game. this post was from this month.


Boudreau keeps cool, won't be fined by AHL
Bears coach Bruce Boudreau says he nearly threw a water bottle at the end of Sunday's game to protest the officiating but thought better of it.
Wednesday, March 01, 2006
TIN LEONE
Bruce Boudreau had a water bottle in his hand ready to throw at the end of Sunday's loss to Grand Rapids, a game featuring controversial calls by referee Francois St. Laurent.
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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:23 pm

Southern Fan wrote:I guess Crosby wasn't the only rookie out there needing to fine tune his approach to the game. I guess St. Laurent is using the opposite approach now.


From a December 24, 2005 game

Panthers cry foul after lossFlorida, called for 17 penalties, directed its ire at rookie official Francois St. Laurent. 'I haven't seen a game called like that in long time,' Gary Roberts said.BY KEVIN BAXTERkbaxter@MiamiHerald.comRALEIGH, N.C. - The way Sean Hill figures it, referee Francois St. Laurent was probably just trying to make a name for himself Friday. And if that's the case, he succeeded.

Only problem is, none of those names can be repeated in a family newspaper -- not after the rookie official worked a game in which season-high 17 penalties were called on the Panthers in a frustrating 4-3 loss to the Carolina Hurricanes at RBC Center.
''That was embarrassing. That's all I'm going to say,'' Hill said. ``I don't think it would have mattered what we did tonight.''
''I haven't seen a game called like that in long time,'' added Gary Roberts, who scored one goal, assisted on another and had a chance to tie the game in the final minute but couldn't get Stephen Weiss' perfect pass into an open net. ``That was over the top.''
And at the center of the storm was St. Laurent, a minor-league referee working just his third NHL game because an injury sidelined regularly scheduled official Rob Shick.

''Our penalty killing, for most of the game I thought we did a good job,'' coach Jacques Martin said. ``[But] it really overtaxed certain players.''

By then, frustration had already began to boil over, with the Panthers bench barking at St. Laurent after Chris Gratton was called for a high stick 1:29 into the final period -- nearly drawing a bench minor -- and with Martin Gelinas calling St. Laurent to the penalty box for an explanation of an interference call less than five minutes later.
Jokinen, the Panthers captain, said he sought an explanation from the official during the first intermission and St. Laurent told him he would ``be going by the rule book.''

Added Hill: ``It's tough any time you're that young in your career.
``I'm sure he wants to call everything exactly by the new rules so he gets noticed.''


WOW. I hate watching games like that. Refs have to let some stuff go sometimes. That is why I LOVE THE PLAYOFFS! Teams play so hard and execute every little facet to perfectly that it is tough to call anything marginal and the flow of the game takes over.
NIN
 

Postby jmh70 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:41 pm

Big props to Tom Surovy, who continues to show why he shouldn't be in the NHL.

I'm struggling to think of what Orpik brings to the game besides physicality. He'd be a fine defenseman in the old NHL. Today, however, he's just a big-hitting novelty like Kasper.
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Postby NIN on Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:52 pm

jmh70 wrote:Big props to Tom Surovy, who continues to show why he shouldn't be in the NHL.

I'm struggling to think of what Orpik brings to the game besides physicality. He'd be a fine defenseman in the old NHL. Today, however, he's just a big-hitting novelty like Kasper.


Oh god I wish he was as good as Kaspar.
NIN
 

Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:47 am

NIN wrote:Oh god I wish he was as good as Kaspar.


So you think Kaspar is great, but get on Crosby for trying to draw calls? Kaspar would lay on the ice pretending to be dead to try and get a call. He is infinitely worse about that stuff than Crosby is.
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Postby Jim on Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:26 am

Kasper was out of position more than he was in position. If it wasn't for his defensive partner Kasper would have been a major liability.
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Sidney didn't arrive with a Perfect Stamp

Postby penny lane on Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:17 am

and the meek hockey player shall inherit...what
exactly?


this talk that hockey players, stars/average/bums, when given a penalty
just turn and go peacefully off the ice is not true. Maybe back in the day of the six teams. i believe the pens just traded an all-star who yip-yapped to the refs... nobody complained more than ronnie francis , from face-off positioning to penalties.

last week discussion of leaving noah welch, college graduate, in wbs for his mental frame yet Sid, as an 18, is to somehow be mentally, physically
and media savvy...a perfect hockey droid?

Last night , where was the flying johnny leclair...that is all the
announcers were talking about?
If people want Sid scratched who will score & create scoring
chances for the pens?
A playoff bound team needed a win and marty brodeur got it done
for them.
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:46 am

netwolf wrote:
NIN wrote:Oh god I wish he was as good as Kaspar.


So you think Kaspar is great, but get on Crosby for trying to draw calls? Kaspar would lay on the ice pretending to be dead to try and get a call. He is infinitely worse about that stuff than Crosby is.


I don't recall seeing or even hearing about Kaspar getting called once for unsportsmanlike conduct just for insulting the refs. Crosby has taken 2 or 3 in just his first season. Francis never got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty either in way over 1,000 games. Kaspar was way better at 25 then Orpik is now, I will laugh my ass off at anyone who disputes that.

Furthermore, for those of you that are having trouble reading. I like the diving and I NEVER GOT ON CROSBY FOR TRYING TO DRAW CALLS (ie DIVING). Lemieux did it his whole career and many great players have as well. All I did was repeatedly compliment his diving even though those head fakes don't usually work. What I have always criticsized him for and will always continue to do is YAPPING AT THE REFS! Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will cost the team a game, but until it does you can all put your blinders on and watch in worship. Not until we lose a game because of his lip will some of you get the point.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:15 pm

NIN wrote:I don't recall seeing or even hearing about Kaspar getting called once for unsportsmanlike conduct just for insulting the refs. Crosby has taken 2 or 3 in just his first season. Francis never got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty either in way over 1,000 games. Kaspar was way better at 25 then Orpik is now, I will laugh my ass off at anyone who disputes that.

Furthermore, for those of you that are having trouble reading. I like the diving and I NEVER GOT ON CROSBY FOR TRYING TO DRAW CALLS (ie DIVING). Lemieux did it his whole career and many great players have as well. All I did was repeatedly compliment his diving even though those head fakes don't usually work. What I have always criticsized him for and will always continue to do is YAPPING AT THE REFS! Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will cost the team a game, but until it does you can all put your blinders on and watch in worship. Not until we lose a game because of his lip will some of you get the point.


I did not see every game Francis played, but I know for a fact he did more than his fair share of talking and was not above using obscenities to get his point across. Difference is, he wasn't an 18 year kid at the time. I know that makes a difference to the refs, but agains it shouldn't. Kaspar does/did plenty of talking too. And Kaspar has never been more than an avergae defender that goes for the big hit a lot.

I also can't understand how anyone is okay with acting or embellishing (basically faking) to try and draw a call, but can have such a problem with someone talking about it. That makes no sense to me at all.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:58 pm

ziggystardust wrote:I also agree with you about Kaspar - he was no more than an average defender. At his best, he was good but his big hit style hurt the team WAY more often than it helped.


Some of the benefit gained by having a guy like Kasper or Ulfie or (hopefully) Brooks on your team is the intimidation factor. Ulf was great that way, when he went over the boards the opposing forwards were much less likely to cut across the middle or chase the puck into the corners. Sure, sometimes too much attention is paid by these types of players to "the big hit" at the expense of solid "D" but it's really no diffferent than guys like Coffey who used to pinch so deep he was like a fourth forward. You just have to pair those guys with someone adept at 'staying home' and covering for them.
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:55 pm

ziggystardust wrote:you LIKE diving?
you LIKE it? are you freaking kidding? Its a cheap, **** thing to do and those who do it are disrespecting the game, the league and themselves.



I got news for you Zig, every player with half a brain dives whenever possible. Some, who suffer from machoism and don't understand the game call it "****" and "cheap" and others who understand competitive nature and winning (coincidently, winning is the object of every game played) know the value of a well timed and convincing dive.

It is diving when a catcher moves the pitch to a different location after he catches the ball outside the strike zone. That is the same as diving. It is diving when a player tries to draw a pass interference penalty by flailing his arms in the air. These are actions that only make sense to players who are putting their heart into winning the game. If the catcher just leaves his mit outside of the strike zone, I would call him or her a total idiot. A receiver who has no shot at making a catch and does not make a dramatic scene after a tiny accidental bump and just puts is head down in defeat is an idot.

Pro sports are played with passion and players who don't try to embelish calls and take advantage of every possible advantage are letting their teammates down and the fans (as fickle as they may be=see NIN). Now this may come as a shock to some of you...refferees are human. Yep. They only got 2 eyes and they poop out of one buthole just like you and me. Since there is alot going on it is easy to catch something out of the side of your eye and mistakenly call it a penalty. This is FUN and I not only like it I **** LOVE IT!! What is better than defying authority in order to help your cause? Lemieux was the King of Anarchy on Ice and they devised the diving roll because HE DOMINATED THE GAME THROUGH DIVING. I THANK MARIO LEMIEUX FOR EVERY PENALTY HE DRAWED and all of his 36 power play goals he scored in 96!! I also thank Kaspar and Ulfie and all the other great divers like Crosby (not Jagr, he was brain dead) who have tried EVERYTHING THEY CAN to help me sit on my ass and enjoy a winning hockey game. **** the refs and **** the so-called tradition of the sport. I have two gonads that I will happily present for all of the old school NHL inventers to suck at their leisure. Then I will deficate inside the Stanley Cup while reciting the lyrics to Brian Adams "Everything I Do, I do it for you" backwards and in pig latin!!

**** the league too!! I want my team to win and I don't care how. Cam Neely's knee injury was a thing of beauty. Lungros's concusion, goosebumps. Crosby trying to beat the Devils trap by trying to draw a penalty and beat them on the power play. PURE BRILLIANCE. Just don't get mad at the refs when they don't fall for it.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:12 pm

You craw draw penalties without diving. That whole "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying" and "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught" mentality is a bunch of garbage.
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:12 pm

netwolf wrote:You craw draw penalties without diving. That whole "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying" and "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught" mentality is a bunch of garbage.


No, you cant draw penalties without diving. I get your meaning but that is a contradiction in terms. If you are pursuing the act of drawing a call then you are in essence diving. Diving is a dirty word in hockey and I aim to change that! One mans crusade to bring out the truth and greatness of fooling an authority figure through subtlety and guile!

Now calls may be made when you are victimized by an oponent. But where is the skill in that?
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Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:10 pm

NIN wrote:No, you cant draw penalties without diving. I get your meaning but that is a contradiction in terms. If you are pursuing the act of drawing a call then you are in essence diving. Diving is a dirty word in hockey and I aim to change that! One mans crusade to bring out the truth and greatness of fooling an authority figure through subtlety and guile!

Now calls may be made when you are victimized by an oponent. But where is the skill in that?


Yes, you most certainly can.

For example, Crosby takes a pass and builds speed through the neutral zone. He makes a move at the offensive blueline and gets a step on the Hatcher. Hatcher reaches out and gets a stick into Crosby. He keeps his feet moving and tries to skate out of it, but is pulled down. There is no embellishment whatsoever. The ref calls a minor hooking penalty, which Crosby drew through the use of a good deke and footspeed. He did not have to cheat to do so.

This happens all the time. How many times have you heard an announcer say "he used his speed and pretty much forced the defenseman to haul him down"?
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:23 pm

netwolf wrote:
NIN wrote:No, you cant draw penalties without diving. I get your meaning but that is a contradiction in terms. If you are pursuing the act of drawing a call then you are in essence diving. Diving is a dirty word in hockey and I aim to change that! One mans crusade to bring out the truth and greatness of fooling an authority figure through subtlety and guile!

Now calls may be made when you are victimized by an oponent. But where is the skill in that?


Yes, you most certainly can.

For example, Crosby takes a pass and builds speed through the neutral zone. He makes a move at the offensive blueline and gets a step on the Hatcher. Hatcher reaches out and gets a stick into Crosby. He keeps his feet moving and tries to skate out of it, but is pulled down. There is no embellishment whatsoever. The ref calls a minor hooking penalty, which Crosby drew through the use of a good deke and footspeed. He did not have to cheat to do so.

This happens all the time. How many times have you heard an announcer say "he used his speed and pretty much forced the defenseman to haul him down"?


That player never intended to draw a penalty. He intended on scoring a goal or making a play. Nobody is ever forced to take a penalty, but if they do so because they got beat or are about to then that is simply a penalty.

Now if a player only skated by the defender because he wants him to make a dumb move then he is drawing a penalty and therefore he is diving. See how its a contradiction in terms? Koltsov is a good example of this. I mean, he would TRY to score, but he knows that drawing that penalty by scarring the opponent with his speed is the best chance he has to help the club. Being fast makes you better at drawing calls and therefore it makes you a better diver just like Koltsov is. Oh yeah he is like 22 and doesnt ***** at refs, good for him.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:47 pm

NIN wrote:That player never intended to draw a penalty. He intended on scoring a goal or making a play. Nobody is ever forced to take a penalty, but if they do so because they got beat or are about to then that is simply a penalty.


It may not have been his intention, but he still most certainly drew the penalty in the situation I described. Intent has nothing to do with it. Rita wasn't trying to score a goal last night; he was making a centering pass. He still got credit for a goal though.

You are equating diving to drawing penalties and that just simply isn't true.
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Postby NIN on Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:59 pm

netwolf wrote:
NIN wrote:That player never intended to draw a penalty. He intended on scoring a goal or making a play. Nobody is ever forced to take a penalty, but if they do so because they got beat or are about to then that is simply a penalty.


It may not have been his intention, but he still most certainly drew the penalty in the situation I described. Intent has nothing to do with it. Rita wasn't trying to score a goal last night; he was making a centering pass. He still got credit for a goal though.

You are equating diving to drawing penalties and that just simply isn't true.


Diving, drawing, embelishing, whatever. Who decides what is a fair display of competitive action and what is excessive? What words correctly fit the crime? I wont bore you with definitions but im pretty sure diving suggests "giving up" which could'nt be farther from the truth in the case of embelishing a penalty that probably would not be called without some salesmanship. I say that is going the extra mile for your team!

Why isn't it against the rules for a catcher to try and buy a call when he moves the pitch into the strike zone? Why isn't that a dive or a draw or an embelishment? How is that not a penalty? I mean he is trying to deceive the official and the guy is leering over him the whole game! In hockey the official is moving around ON SKATES and trying (very poorly most nights) to get out of the way and everything else, embelishing a call would actually help the official make a call and alot of times it works. NOw they are calling dives based on a video tape analysis (empthasis on "anal") of players and bad reputations due to the press!

Get rid of the diving penalty and give them an award for it!
NIN
 

Postby netwolf on Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:10 am

You are so far off base here, you can't even see it anymore.
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Postby NIN on Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:13 am

netwolf wrote:You are so far off base here, you can't even see it anymore.


VIVA LE' REVOLUTION!!

I will change the league for the better one post at a time!! :D
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Postby netwolf on Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:20 am

I'm not agreeing with you, so you have changed nothing. :twisted:
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