Kessel or Johnson? Who cares!

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Kessel or Johnson? Who cares!

Postby Scott on Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:14 pm

It is getting really old all the talk about finishing last overall and hoping for that #1 pick.

Here is something a little more productive for ya.

Lets hope the Pens start to play better and start winning. Even if it is at the expense of those two players.

This team needs to get on track;players and coaches alike. There is no savior in this years draft #1, #2 you play the games to win. Even if there were another franchise type player available in the draft this year, you dont tank a season or games.

It is faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrr more important for the current Pens to get winning and a killer instinct.

Maybe they finish last, and just for the point of it now, I hope they dont draft either Kessel or Johnson.

I don't think either one of those players are the best coming in this draft.
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Postby ville5 on Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:17 pm

So you're saying you want Backstrom? :?:
Image
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Postby scals37 on Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:42 pm

lets not forget that one guy we brought in a while ago by finishing last... he was basically the reason the pens arent in kansas city, i think his name was mario.....
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Postby Fast B on Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:05 pm

scals37 wrote:lets not forget that one guy we brought in a while ago by finishing last... he was basically the reason the pens arent in kansas city, i think his name was mario.....


To be fair, we already have potential franchise players in Crosby and (hopefully) Malkin. I don't think anybody in this year's draft will be more important to the franchise than those two.
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Postby NIN on Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:10 pm

For once I agree with everything your saying here. Lets just enjoy some good hockey games and hope the guys can gain some confidence and carry a winning attitude into next season.

Besides, no matter who they draft he won't be starting in the NHL next season. Malkin is the player I can't wait to see, whoever they draft wont be as good as him anyways.
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Postby Ron` on Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:06 pm

NIN wrote:For once I agree with everything your saying here. Lets just enjoy some good hockey games and hope the guys can gain some confidence and carry a winning attitude into next season.

Besides, no matter who they draft he won't be starting in the NHL next season. Malkin is the player I can't wait to see, whoever they draft wont be as good as him anyways.
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Postby Ron` on Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:07 pm

To be fair, we already have potential franchise players in Crosby and (hopefully) Malkin. I don't think anybody in this year's draft will be more important to the franchise than those two.[/quote]

Sorry, I have to agree with you 100%. This draft is weak IMHO and we should not expect a star from our top 5 pick. We should expect a solid player.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:29 am

I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.

We already have 2 good players, so why do we need any more? lol..... Sure lets go out and win a bunch of meaningless hockey games so we can't claim the top-tier of talent in this years draft... pfff it's not like they are any good anyways, they may only just be "solid players", and who would want them? Or because he won't play in the NHL next season, it doesnt matter?

Boy I am glad you guys aren't GM's....


p.s. if the penguins had won ONE more game 2 seasons ago, there would be no Malkin here. The players will always play to win, as they should, but don't lose your head and think winning any more games this year will magically give the team some "killer instinct"... you will just shaft yourself out of a very possible franchise player.

Screw the battle, win the war.
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:33 am

FallenHero96 wrote:I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.

We already have 2 good players, so why do we need any more? lol..... Sure lets go out and win a bunch of meaningless hockey games so we can't claim the top-tier of talent in this years draft... pfff it's not like they are any good anyways, they may only just be "solid players", and who would want them? Or because he won't play in the NHL next season, it doesnt matter?

Boy I am glad you guys aren't GM's....


p.s. if the penguins had won ONE more game 2 seasons ago, there would be no Malkin here. The players will always play to win, as they should, but don't lose your head and think winning any more games this year will magically give the team some "killer instinct"... you will just shaft yourself out of a very possible franchise player.

Screw the battle, win the war.



Hey ACE..LOL... there STILL IS NO MALKIN HERE
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:37 am

Scott wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.

We already have 2 good players, so why do we need any more? lol..... Sure lets go out and win a bunch of meaningless hockey games so we can't claim the top-tier of talent in this years draft... pfff it's not like they are any good anyways, they may only just be "solid players", and who would want them? Or because he won't play in the NHL next season, it doesnt matter?

Boy I am glad you guys aren't GM's....


p.s. if the penguins had won ONE more game 2 seasons ago, there would be no Malkin here. The players will always play to win, as they should, but don't lose your head and think winning any more games this year will magically give the team some "killer instinct"... you will just shaft yourself out of a very possible franchise player.

Screw the battle, win the war.



Hey ACE..LOL... there STILL IS NO MALKIN HERE


I obviously meant in THE SYSTEM as in our rights to him....... ace.
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Postby Steve on Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:05 am

I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.


Yea, what a stupid idea, wanting the team to improve and win some games. :roll:
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:15 am

Steve wrote:
I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.


Yea, what a stupid idea, wanting the team to improve and win some games. :roll:


The team is steadily improving, and in time it will be winning lots of games, but that will not be happening because of the games left to play this season. I listed my reasons why I feel the way I do, if you do not think they are valid, well I don't know what to tell ya.
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Postby Steve on Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:30 am

The team is steadily improving, and in time it will be winning lots of games, but that will not be happening because of the games left to play this season. I listed my reasons why I feel the way I do, if you do not think they are valid, well I don't know what to tell ya.


Even though we have no hope for the playoffs this year, these are not throw-away or meaningless games.

We had 11 rookies in the lineup yesterday - It's far more important to gain some chemistry, gain some confidence, then to try to position ourselves for a #1 pick, in a draft where there is no clear cut #1....

Let's go Pens!
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Postby Pitts on Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:34 pm

Steve wrote:
I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.


Yea, what a stupid idea, wanting the team to improve and win some games. :roll:


It is a dumb idea. This season was over long ago. Assuring the highest finish in the draft order is the goal now. No matter how good a player anyone thinks the top 5 are this year, they are all very valuable assets with which to improve the team down the road. Having a chance to draft in the top 3 is a perfectly reasonable goal at this point in this lost season.
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Postby Pitts on Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:37 pm

Steve wrote:
The team is steadily improving, and in time it will be winning lots of games, but that will not be happening because of the games left to play this season. I listed my reasons why I feel the way I do, if you do not think they are valid, well I don't know what to tell ya.


Even though we have no hope for the playoffs this year, these are not throw-away or meaningless games.

We had 11 rookies in the lineup yesterday - It's far more important to gain some chemistry, gain some confidence, then to try to position ourselves for a #1 pick, in a draft where there is no clear cut #1....

Let's go Pens!


They are accomplishing all those goals, and heading for a #1 pick. And, there IS a clear-cut #1. His name is Erik Johnson.[/b]
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Postby Scott on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:28 pm

Pitts wrote:
Steve wrote:
I've heard a lot of dumb ideas, and this ranks up there with the best of them.


Yea, what a stupid idea, wanting the team to improve and win some games. :roll:


It is a dumb idea. This season was over long ago. Assuring the highest finish in the draft order is the goal now. No matter how good a player anyone thinks the top 5 are this year, they are all very valuable assets with which to improve the team down the road. Having a chance to draft in the top 3 is a perfectly reasonable goal at this point in this lost season.


Have you ever competed in organized sports. Finishing in the top 3, meaning losing games, is no kind of goal.

It is counterproductive.
These guys need to be winning period. Playoffs are lost. Winning ways and attitude can start to be gained here instead of finishing dead last.

Fleury's save last night on KOVY, was just what the doctor ordered for him. Big save at a big time. A goal by one of the role players to break a tie last night, are things this team needs now, to carry into next year..FINISHING IN THE TOP 3 OF THE DRAFT IS ONLY YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF COMPETITVE SPORTS.

I hope the Pens pick 5th, 6th, 7th, or even lower. That will mean they have started to win some games and get some confidence for next year.

Things that are REAL GOALS for this team to get on track.
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Postby Steve on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:40 pm

It is a dumb idea. This season was over long ago. Assuring the highest finish in the draft order is the goal now. No matter how good a player anyone thinks the top 5 are this year, they are all very valuable assets with which to improve the team down the road. Having a chance to draft in the top 3 is a perfectly reasonable goal at this point in this lost season.


Nonsense.

Setting a goal of "assuring the highest finish in the draft" every year is a losers mentality - one that this organization, and a few of it's fans, need to change.....
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:47 pm

Chris wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:p.s. if the penguins had won ONE more game 2 seasons ago, there would be no Malkin here. The players will always play to win, as they should, but don't lose your head and think winning any more games this year will magically give the team some "killer instinct"... you will just shaft yourself out of a very possible franchise player.

Screw the battle, win the war.


I do believe if the Pens had won 1 more game that year Washington would have finished last and we wouldd have finished 2nd to last and won the draft lottery, so you are right, we wouldnt own Malkin's rights. We would have Ovechkin playing on a wing with Crosby.


That is true, I was wrong. I don't know how many points we were away from 3rd spot, but my point remains the same, and my arguement still stands. Your arguement is invalid, however, because you do not know how the lottery will turn out. The team that finishes last has the best chance of getting the best pick. If the lottery doesnt go our way, nothing we can do about that.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:53 pm

Steve wrote:
It is a dumb idea. This season was over long ago. Assuring the highest finish in the draft order is the goal now. No matter how good a player anyone thinks the top 5 are this year, they are all very valuable assets with which to improve the team down the road. Having a chance to draft in the top 3 is a perfectly reasonable goal at this point in this lost season.


Nonsense.

Setting a goal of "assuring the highest finish in the draft" every year is a losers mentality - one that this organization, and a few of it's fans, need to change.....


It's not and never has been a goal to set every year. If we were in a playoff hunt do you still think I would be thinking the same way? Of course not.... look i'm a realist, and getting the best possible pick is best for the organization. We finished very strong two years ago, and where was the benefit? Did that help us coming into this year? I don't think it did. We don't have to agree, but you take your season ending momentum, ill take my first round draft pick, and we will see which one works out better.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:51 pm

Steve wrote:Nonsense.

Setting a goal of "assuring the highest finish in the draft" every year is a losers mentality - one that this organization, and a few of it's fans, need to change.....


Show me just where any LGP poster said our goal every year should be to finish last?

The point being made is that once you no longer have a realistic chance of making the playoffs, then finishing last is perferenial to being the first team to finish out of the playoffs.

There's a valid point that some posters are making that finishing the season strong is preferential to getting the top pick, and while I don't agree, I see their point.

But to say that fans start each season with a goal of finishing last, you're just being inane if you argue that point.
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Postby Reilly on Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:04 pm

I remember reading this same thread last season.

"Who cares about Crosby, he might be a bust, I'd rather win right now"

:roll:
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Postby Steve on Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:15 pm

Show me just where any LGP poster said our goal every year should be to finish last?


Scroll up, that is the goal set by at least one poster for this year...maybe more...

How many #1 overall picks is it going to take? The goal for the rest of the year should be to continue to improve - in every aspect. I haven't read anything persuasive in this thread, or projections of the players coming out, that is going to change that. It's not like there is a Mario, Crosby or AO coming out of this draft - if there is, i'd like someone to predict when that player is going to be drafted...

It's all good - as fans, we can root for whatever we want, and me, I'm rooting for a victory tonight. :)

Let's go Pens!
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Postby netwolf on Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:32 pm

I have discussed Johnson vs. Kessel, but I have never rooted for the team to finish at the bottom. Granted, once you are out of the playoffs, finishing lower has a tangible benefit in the form of a better draft pick.

That said, winning as many games as possible down the stretch (especially against good teams) has an intagible benefit that I think is of more value, especially with a young team - winning. With all of the rookies and second year guys we have (and should have) in key roles, it is very valuable for them to learn how to win as a team and as individuals.

You play to win the game. And besides, there's no one worth tanking for this year anyhow. :mrgreen:
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Postby Steve on Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:00 pm

I remember reading this same thread last season.

"Who cares about Crosby, he might be a bust, I'd rather win right now"



Someone posted that during the lockout? Crosby wasn't eligible after the last season that was played. :roll:
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Postby Pitts on Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:39 pm

Steve wrote:
It is a dumb idea. This season was over long ago. Assuring the highest finish in the draft order is the goal now. No matter how good a player anyone thinks the top 5 are this year, they are all very valuable assets with which to improve the team down the road. Having a chance to draft in the top 3 is a perfectly reasonable goal at this point in this lost season.


Nonsense.

Setting a goal of "assuring the highest finish in the draft" every year is a losers mentality - one that this organization, and a few of it's fans, need to change.....


I don't mean literally setting a goal to finish last, especially "every season". Please. The team is accomplishing that on their own. As Expatriot said, the playoffs are no longer on the radar, we are at the bottom of the standings, the team is learning to play together, grow together and win. There is no reason not to want another top draft pick to help build this team into the winner it will be. Finishing 5-8 from the bottom will assure a mediocre pick at best when there are 3-4 top performers in this weak draft. We need one of those top picks.

And, yes, I've played sports competitively and have a son who plays 5 different sports currently, so, I think I can speak to the desire to win.

The "reward" of this miserable season will be Erik Johnson or Phil Kessel.
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