Big loss tonight....

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Big loss tonight....

Postby Mountaineer on Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:45 pm

Jackets and Hawks both lost today, and a Pens win would have meant only a three point "lead" in the lottery standings. Thankfully, that didn't happen, and the Pens remain five ahead, or behind, however you wish to look at it.
Mountaineer
 

Re: Big loss tonight....

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:05 am

Mountaineer wrote:Jackets and Hawks both lost today, and a Pens win would have meant only a three point "lead" in the lottery standings. Thankfully, that didn't happen, and the Pens remain five ahead, or behind, however you wish to look at it.


:roll:
FallenHero96
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,634
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Fast B on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:11 am

Big loss indeed. Now they might not make the playoffs...

:lol:
Fast B
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,857
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: San Mateo, CA

Postby Defence21 on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:44 am

I don't get this enfatuation with finishing last this year. Sure, the Pens would be guaranteed a draft pick no lower than 2nd overall, but really, does that matter all that much this year? No.

In the previous two years there have been three players who WERE worth tanking for. This season, there is not a single player I would want the Penguins to tank for. Kessel and Johnson are good, no doubt, but are they good enough to root against your team? Are they good enough to suffer through being the laughing stock of the NHL -- and all of professional sports, for that matter? My answer is a bold no.

You do realize that the worse this team plays, the less interest fans will have in this team over the summer and in the early parts of next season, right? Some fans, in fact, may decide to completely quit watching them because of yet another last place finish. So what if the Pens get the top pick. They're sure to get one in the top five even without playing like crap. How about letting them play, letting them develop, and letting them win? That might have more of an impact on the future.

But, nah, you can't do that. Wanting them to play their best and win would make you a fan.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,847
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Postby Fast B on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:56 am

Defence21 wrote:I don't get this enfatuation with finishing last this year. Sure, the Pens would be guaranteed a draft pick no lower than 2nd overall, but really, does that matter all that much this year? No.

In the previous two years there have been three players who WERE worth tanking for. This season, there is not a single player I would want the Penguins to tank for. Kessel and Johnson are good, no doubt, but are they good enough to root against your team? Are they good enough to suffer through being the laughing stock of the NHL -- and all of professional sports, for that matter? My answer is a bold no.

You do realize that the worse this team plays, the less interest fans will have in this team over the summer and in the early parts of next season, right? Some fans, in fact, may decide to completely quit watching them because of yet another last place finish. So what if the Pens get the top pick. They're sure to get one in the top five even without playing like crap. How about letting them play, letting them develop, and letting them win? That might have more of an impact on the future.

But, nah, you can't do that. Wanting them to play their best and win would make you a fan.


Yep. And as I said in another similar thread, some people have been comparing this year's "hope for last place" mentality to the one from 1984. That is a bad analogy, because there is probably no player in the upcoming draft who will revive our franchise like Lemieux did, and we already have two players who might fit that mold in Crosby and Malkin.

Not to mention, how many teams jump from last to first in a given year? Not many. Finishing last might get us a better player now, but we have to start improving eventually. Sure, you say, we could do better next year after we get Kessel/Johnson this year. But what if there's a super-talented player in the following draft who has all the scouts drooling? If the Pens aren't doing so hot, should they just try to tank again? Where does it end?

No, while we may lose out on a good player, the team has to start taking steps toward respectability, lest they end up in the Pirates' situation. The process has to start sometime - why not now?
Fast B
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,857
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: San Mateo, CA

Postby HomerPenguin on Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:24 am

Fast B wrote:Yep. And as I said in another similar thread, some people have been comparing this year's "hope for last place" mentality to the one from 1984. That is a bad analogy, because there is probably no player in the upcoming draft who will revive our franchise like Lemieux did, and we already have two players who might fit that mold in Crosby and Malkin.


Johnson is projected to be a very good player at a position of absolute need, and Kessel seems like a bigger risk but he's also something they need quite a bit (goal-scorer). More importantly, this draft has 3 or maybe 4 players who are considered sure things before the talent level drops off the deep end. Given the way this year has played out, I'd like the Penguins to get one of those players.

Not to mention, how many teams jump from last to first in a given year? Not many. Finishing last might get us a better player now, but we have to start improving eventually. Sure, you say, we could do better next year after we get Kessel/Johnson this year. But what if there's a super-talented player in the following draft who has all the scouts drooling? If the Pens aren't doing so hot, should they just try to tank again? Where does it end?


Maybe it ends when the team starts playing well. I don't recall anybody hoping they'd tank until they'd already tanked. If they were in a playoff chase, even if they finished out of the playoffs, I doubt you'd have many people saying, "damn, I wish they would have just tanked the whole year." Now that they have tanked, however, they might as well get one of the three top prospects.

No, while we may lose out on a good player, the team has to start taking steps toward respectability, lest they end up in the Pirates' situation. The process has to start sometime - why not now?


What does now get them? If they play .500 hockey the rest of the way and finish 6th from last instead of last, what real difference does that make? Does that "momentum" roll over into next year? Seems to me that's a 50/50 proposition at best. I'll take the player and build momentum in camp.
HomerPenguin
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:50 pm
Location: ...

Postby MrKnowNothing on Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:35 am

Defence21 wrote:I don't get this enfatuation with finishing last this year. Sure, the Pens would be guaranteed a draft pick no lower than 2nd overall, but really, does that matter all that much this year? No.

In the previous two years there have been three players who WERE worth tanking for. This season, there is not a single player I would want the Penguins to tank for. Kessel and Johnson are good, no doubt, but are they good enough to root against your team? Are they good enough to suffer through being the laughing stock of the NHL -- and all of professional sports, for that matter? My answer is a bold no.

You do realize that the worse this team plays, the less interest fans will have in this team over the summer and in the early parts of next season, right? Some fans, in fact, may decide to completely quit watching them because of yet another last place finish. So what if the Pens get the top pick. They're sure to get one in the top five even without playing like crap. How about letting them play, letting them develop, and letting them win? That might have more of an impact on the future.

But, nah, you can't do that. Wanting them to play their best and win would make you a fan.


I agree in principle, but even in 03/04 when there was the knowledge of Ovechkin, it still sucked to see the team suck so badly.

There are rewards for losing a lot, but I just don't see how any fan can really enjoy wallowing in the cellar of the league. Just my perspective I guess.
MrKnowNothing
 

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:59 am

I'm fine with the way things have been going recently. In the last 11, the Pens are 5-5-1. Of the eight teams played, six are playoff teams and one is battling for a playoff spot. For the most part, they've played some of their best hockey of the season during this stretch. Only two of the six losses have been by more than one goal. If they continue on this stretch, I think that's a positive finish to the season. Even better, they still should finish last unless St. Louis and Chicago are absolutely terrible to finish the year.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:03 am

I have never once hoped for the team to lose, and never will.
FallenHero96
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,634
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Pitts on Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:52 am

Defence21 wrote:I don't get this enfatuation with finishing last this year. Sure, the Pens would be guaranteed a draft pick no lower than 2nd overall, but really, does that matter all that much this year? No.

I'm not infactuated with finishing last. I was p!ssed as anything they lost the game on a penalty call last night, and truly want them to win. But, the fact is, we ARE at the bottom with nothing more than pride to play for. Ottawa did it for years and look were they are now due all those high draft picks (and smart trading!) The Pens will be there soon enough, but, another top-end draft pick will give them another strong tool to work with.

Defence21 wrote:Kessel and Johnson are good, no doubt, but are they good enough to root against your team? Are they good enough to suffer through being the laughing stock of the NHL -- and all of professional sports, for that matter? My answer is a bold no.

I never root against my team, and we HAVE BEEN the laughing stock of the NHL for years. What's another month? :D

Defence21 wrote:You do realize that the worse this team plays, the less interest fans will have in this team over the summer and in the early parts of next season, right? Some fans, in fact, may decide to completely quit watching them because of yet another last place finish.

That will not happen with Crosby, Fleury and soon Malkin on the ice.

Defence21 wrote:So what if the Pens get the top pick. They're sure to get one in the top five even without playing like crap.

You just supported my argument perfectly! :D
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,677
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby Defence21 on Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:53 am

MrKnowNothing wrote:
Defence21 wrote:I don't get this enfatuation with finishing last this year. Sure, the Pens would be guaranteed a draft pick no lower than 2nd overall, but really, does that matter all that much this year? No.

In the previous two years there have been three players who WERE worth tanking for. This season, there is not a single player I would want the Penguins to tank for. Kessel and Johnson are good, no doubt, but are they good enough to root against your team? Are they good enough to suffer through being the laughing stock of the NHL -- and all of professional sports, for that matter? My answer is a bold no.

You do realize that the worse this team plays, the less interest fans will have in this team over the summer and in the early parts of next season, right? Some fans, in fact, may decide to completely quit watching them because of yet another last place finish. So what if the Pens get the top pick. They're sure to get one in the top five even without playing like crap. How about letting them play, letting them develop, and letting them win? That might have more of an impact on the future.

But, nah, you can't do that. Wanting them to play their best and win would make you a fan.


I agree in principle, but even in 03/04 when there was the knowledge of Ovechkin, it still sucked to see the team suck so badly.

There are rewards for losing a lot, but I just don't see how any fan can really enjoy wallowing in the cellar of the league. Just my perspective I guess.

That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly can understand that it would be excellent to have another top draft pick, especially if that pick is a sniper winger for Crosby or a stud defenseman for the blueline. But cheering for the team to lose takes all of the fun out of watching the games. I want the team to play their best hockey and let their record come naturally.

I can see them shuffling lines, defense pairings and pp/pk units to see who works well together, and, basically, use this as a tryout for next season, but I can't see going into tank mode with specific intentions of losing.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,847
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA


Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: skullman80 and 12 guests


e-mail