Channel 11 just did a casino story -

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Channel 11 just did a casino story -

Postby Peter on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:22 am

They said that the IOC plan will only supply 970 jobs while Harris will supply 2000.

They also said that these numbers came directly from the plans.

This is not good, especially if it is writing from the planmakers themselves.
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Re: Channel 11 just did a casino story -

Postby Ben Klingston on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:35 am

Peter wrote:They said that the IOC plan will only supply 970 jobs while Harris will supply 2000.

They also said that these numbers came directly from the plans.

This is not good, especially if it is writing from the planmakers themselves.


Actually, Channel 11 didn't 'say that the IOC plan will only supply 970...', they reported that Harrah's took out a full page ad proclaiming that info. And it's Harrah's not Harris. Don't bring Pitt Football into this, you already jinxed the bball team.

Geesh, too much rum in the buttermilk tonight, Jebediah?

(all in good fun, of course :lol: )

In all seriousness, I would like to know how many of those jobs - for any of the plans (The North Shore plan was purported to yield 1500 jobs) - are permanent, and not tied to the initial construction.
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Postby Jerez on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:38 am

All I can say is, tell me about job creation after the fact. Anybody can say they'll create just about any number of jobs. When all is said and done, the actual FTE person hours is all that matters. How many jobs has the Bush administration created? >no politics here disclaimer<

The greatest thing I learned in graduate school statistics class was "You can make statistics say anything you want." Let's extrapolate out to "projections"...

Too bad the 90% will never know the difference. :(
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Postby Ben Klingston on Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:43 am

I'll also add that a Harrah's or North Shore plan may advertise to 'create' X many new jobs... but the IOC plan is likely the only one that will create X many new jobs, as well as likely saving a decent number of them as well. Uptown, and Downtown for that matter, isn't exactly a hoppin' place as-is, but without 42 nights a year of pre and post-game entertainment, some of those businesses won't likely make it long-term.
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Postby Pitts on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:29 am

Here is the Post-Gazette story from Sunday where they got that info:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06078/672968.stm

The article actually provides some rebuttal to Harrah'a inflated claims.
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Postby HomerPenguin on Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:16 am

Pitts wrote:Here is the Post-Gazette story from Sunday where they got that info:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06078/672968.stm

The article actually provides some rebuttal to Harrah'a inflated claims.


What? Harrah's? Lie? I don't follow.

It's very simple. A Harrah's-operated casino will be responsible for every new job created in the Greater Pittsburgh for the first 5 years after it opens. It's all very simple and believable. You skeptics sicken me.
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Re: Channel 11 just did a casino story -

Postby Peter on Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:54 am

Ben Klingston wrote:
And it's Harrah's not Harris.


Look, I was up late thanks to the lovely electricity porblems at the arena last night, I wasn't home until 11:10 or so. Harris Harrah, what's the difference. All the same when it's past your bedtime. :o
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:54 am

They should turn the tables on FC/Harrahs, and make them sign a contract GUARANTEEING that many new jobs, plus GUARANTEEING the revenue projections. Make the contract unbreakable, and put in extremely stiff financial penalties for not living up to the terms. Job and revenue creations should be verified by an independent auditing firm.

See if Harrahs is willing to do that.
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Postby Jim on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:15 am

If they give ME the slots... I will create a MILLION jobs... yeeeaaaahhhh... That's the ticket!
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Postby Stoosh on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:21 am

It almost seems to me that Harrah's never expected to see this much public support for the IoC/Arena plan. As a consequence, this might be the only way to garner support for their plan - by focussing their attention solely on duping as many of the general public as possible.

People who have been keeping up with the issue will see right through those numbers because they are so far out of whack with those of the other applicants. I think proof of that lies in the way they view this whole project. Harrah's view in the grand scheme of things is so much bigger than the other two (viewing this casino as a "destination", despite the fact that most of its traffic will be generated by locals), and that's probably the underlying reason we're getting this projections from them.

What worries me is this, though...for every person out there that can see right through their numbers, how many more are there who just look at the numbers and take them at face value?
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Postby 68forever on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:27 am

What's the old saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is. When you compare the 3 and IOC is the lowest wouldn't a person with 1/2 oz. of common sense realize someone is lying, but I guess all will see only what they want until it's to late and the promises don't come true. They should make Harrahs make some kind of contract, just like a few yrs. ago I heard of a guy who owned his own business and was doing extermly well. He made a pledge ONLY to his Catholic Church to donate 1 million dollars to the church to help build a new building and make renovations to the existing building, a few months later he went bankrupt and lost everthing including personal finances. The church sued him saying he contracted w/them this money and the courts ruled in the churches favorand the guy even though in total pesonal and business bankrupcy had to fullfill his million dollar commitment to the church. Now if a church can do that and win with just a pledge surly Pittsburgh can find a way to bind this great Harrah to something. Wouldn't that be nice but I know in reality NEVER going to happen. DARN IT!!!!! to bad.
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Postby Jim on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:40 am

Well... if you hire 3 part time people to do the job of one full time person... does that count as 3 jobs created as opposed to one?
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Postby HomerPenguin on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:09 pm

Jim wrote:Well... if you hire 3 part time people to do the job of one full time person... does that count as 3 jobs created as opposed to one?


If they're being at all honest (and it's Harrah's, so who knows?) the jobs they list should be full-time equivalents. On the other hand, if Isle of Capri is talking about casino-only employees and Harrah's is including employees of the casino, the hotel, new restaurant employees, new parking valets, the extra midnight-8 AM shift at the 7/11 down the block, and new orderlies at a hospital in East Liverpool OH, then its easy to see why their numbers got so high.
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One of my prof's use to say

Postby rasbatch on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:19 pm

Jerez wrote:All I can say is, tell me about job creation after the fact. Anybody can say they'll create just about any number of jobs. When all is said and done, the actual FTE person hours is all that matters. How many jobs has the Bush administration created? >no politics here disclaimer<

The greatest thing I learned in graduate school statistics class was "You can make statistics say anything you want." Let's extrapolate out to "projections"...

Too bad the 90% will never know the difference. :(


If you need statistics you statistics to make your point you got bad data. I know that's not necessarily the point here. Also don't discount the waste removal jobs created by the Bush Admin. with the turds they've laid everywhere.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:44 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:If they're being at all honest (and it's Harrah's, so who knows?) the jobs they list should be full-time equivalents. On the other hand, if Isle of Capri is talking about casino-only employees and Harrah's is including employees of the casino, the hotel, new restaurant employees, new parking valets, the extra midnight-8 AM shift at the 7/11 down the block, and new orderlies at a hospital in East Liverpool OH, then its easy to see why their numbers got so high.


Harrahs really doesn't want to get into this with IoC. Not if it's a 'fair fight'.

Think about it. The truth is that if IoC gets the bidm, they'll be creating jobs from on side of the lower hill to the other. Retaining the Pens alone is more jobs than FC can boast. (How many people do you think it takes to run a slots parlor? - ans. VERY VERY Few)

I just hope there's as much sunshine as possible on these proposals.
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Postby Jim on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:48 pm

I do not care who gets the slots... I just can't wait for all the hot chicks to show up like on "Las Vegas" Yeah baby!
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Postby Bowser on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:51 pm

Jim, you live in Pittsburgh.

How many hot babes actually live here or come to visit?

Can you imagine some 10 babe saying... "girls, let's go to Pittsburgh!"
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:53 pm

i can't wait for the Vegas like acts! Like this one: Image
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Postby Jim on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:53 pm

HEY! DON'T RUIN IT!!!

I am fully aware that the slopt will only pull in 50+ year old yinzers and rednecks... but let a brother dream!
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all this week at IOC

Postby rasbatch on Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:56 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:i can't wait for the Vegas like acts! Like this one: Image


Jeff Jimerson sings the hits of Wayne Newton. Dunke Scheun, darlin Dunke Scheun
If only I could buy tickets now, since they won't last long. :roll:
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Postby dboss on Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:33 pm

Its pretty obvious to me that Harrah's is attempting to lie through their teeth to get this license and they are trying to cover-up the fact that they are giving NOTHING to Pittsburgh. They are going to create all these jobs, they are sooooo pro-union (full page ad in the PG on Sunday), and their average wages are soooo much higher than IoC's. It shows me they are getting to be very, very desperate because their proposal is beginning to be shown for what it really is, a second-rate 'offer' intended to fill Forest City's and Harrah's pockets with Pittsburgh's money.

I would think a lot more of their proposal if they had at least committed a large amount of $$$ for something in the city, and it wouldn't have even had to be a new arena (although that is what I want). They can say that Harrah's would be a destination, but as the PG pointed out the vast majority of revenue will be generated by Allegheny County $$$. Its just another one of the many lies being perpetrated by the Forest City group.
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