scouting report on potential Pens pick Erik Johnson

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scouting report on potential Pens pick Erik Johnson

Postby Draftnik on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:15 pm

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Postby Pitts on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:33 pm

I was on the Kessel bandwagon for 2 years...Lately, I've been jumping on the Johnson wagon. I like what I'm reading!
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Postby DrBoni on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:39 pm

"Johnson did a nice job going up against Russian uber prospect Evgeni Malkin--the No. 2 overall selection in 2004 by the Pittsburgh Penguins--in Vancouver."

Would you draft him just so he doesn't become a Scott Stevens? :wink:

Seriously though, I'm excited at the prospect of either one of these guys; and the way things look, we're going to have one of the two.

This is the first I've heard of Kessel playing in Minnesota next year. Is he expected to make the jump to the NHL or is he going to play NCAA for a year?

Man, I'm slacking on this stuff. Damn school :D
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Re: scouting report on potential Pens pick Erik Johnson

Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:39 pm



Nice, thanks. I like the fact that he is big and talented, but the Pens also have the need for his right handed shot.
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Postby Defence21 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:41 pm

Pitts wrote:I was on the Kessel bandwagon for 2 years...Lately, I've been jumping on the Johnson wagon. I like what I'm reading!


I just hope the decision is made for the Pens, meaning they get the 2nd overall pick. That would make things much easier and would eliminate a great deal of the second-guessing.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:44 pm

It's nice to see him get some coverage, and I like the fact that he will be going to the U of M next season. I still think this team needs offense, but if he is the real deal it sure would be tough to pass him up.

Kessel or Johnson, either way, this is a great problem for the team to have.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:44 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Pitts wrote:I was on the Kessel bandwagon for 2 years...Lately, I've been jumping on the Johnson wagon. I like what I'm reading!


I just hope the decision is made for the Pens, meaning they get the 2nd overall pick. That would make things much easier and would eliminate a great deal of the second-guessing.


It would certainly save alot of fan in-fighting down the road: "Well, they should've taken ..."

Unless , of course, Towes or Staal turn out better. Then you'll never hear the end of it regarding the Pen's horrid drafting! :D
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:08 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Pitts wrote:I was on the Kessel bandwagon for 2 years...Lately, I've been jumping on the Johnson wagon. I like what I'm reading!


I just hope the decision is made for the Pens, meaning they get the 2nd overall pick. That would make things much easier and would eliminate a great deal of the second-guessing.


I dunno. Get the #1 pick and just take Johnson and be done with it.
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:09 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:It's nice to see him get some coverage, and I like the fact that he will be going to the U of M next season. I still think this team needs offense, but if he is the real deal it sure would be tough to pass him up.

Kessel or Johnson, either way, this is a great problem for the team to have.


Thing is, how good would the offense be if the Pens had someone who can pass like Johnson can? Offense sometimes starts from defense.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:00 pm

Daniel wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:It's nice to see him get some coverage, and I like the fact that he will be going to the U of M next season. I still think this team needs offense, but if he is the real deal it sure would be tough to pass him up.

Kessel or Johnson, either way, this is a great problem for the team to have.


Thing is, how good would the offense be if the Pens had someone who can pass like Johnson can? Offense sometimes starts from defense.


You mean like Gonchar? Or Whitney?
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:08 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:It's nice to see him get some coverage, and I like the fact that he will be going to the U of M next season. I still think this team needs offense, but if he is the real deal it sure would be tough to pass him up.

Kessel or Johnson, either way, this is a great problem for the team to have.


Thing is, how good would the offense be if the Pens had someone who can pass like Johnson can? Offense sometimes starts from defense.


You mean like Gonchar? Or Whitney?


Yes, like Gonchar and Whitney, only more. I understand the need for a good forward, but a good forward can't do much if the puck can't get up ice.
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Postby Reilly on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:17 pm

With Gonchar, Whitney, Welch and Orpik for at least the next 4 years, I don't see why they would take another defenseman.
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:21 pm

Reilly wrote:With Gonchar, Whitney, Welch and Orpik for at least the next 4 years, I don't see why they would take another defenseman.


Thats why I am glad it isn't my decision. :D Plus, all four of those dmen are left handed. Johnson is right handed. I don't know if that is an issue, but it is something to look at.

I just don't like the idea of taking Kessel. I can only go by what I read, but there is just something that doesn't seem right with taking him in the top 2. Perhaps Toews or Staal would be better than both, who knows.
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Postby Stoosh on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:29 pm

I'm putting next year out of my mind with both Kessel and Johnson. I don't believe either of them are ready to step in next year and contribute.

From what I've seen of him (2 WJC tournaments and a handful of Minnesota games on CSTV or ESPN-U), I still think Kessel's game is too raw for the NHL. I'm not buying into this "selfish player" stuff. I think he tried to do too much on his own at the WJC's, but I don't believe that necessarily means that he's a selfish player. His numbers at Minnesota (17G, 33A in 38 games) don't bear that out. I don't know how much more room he has to grow (currently listed at 6'0", 190), and because of that, I'd have to wonder if he projects more as a center than a wing in the NHL. If they think he's a wing, we're golden. If he projects more as a center, we're probably going to have to move Malkin to wing (Crosby HAS to stay at center).

Johnson hasn't even seen NCAA competition yet. I can't understand how on earth he'd be ready for the NHL next year. I remember Chris Pronger making his NHL debut at 19 in the 1993-94 season and he looked overwhelmed...almost completely lost at times. Rob Blake didn't play a full NHL season until he was 21.

Think about that...some people have suggested that Johnson - an 18-year old kid - could jump right past the NCAA AND the AHL to play a top-four role on this team next year? I just don't see it. I'm not sure if there's a player in the current or modern NHL that's done the equivalent of that...not as a defenseman. It takes too long to learn the position.

As one writer to the Q&A suggested, I COULD see Johnson's career taking off like Dion Phaneuf's has. Phaneuf bypassed the AHL, but he played two full seasons at Red Deer AFTER he was taken in the 2003 draft. So he was 20 when he made his NHL debut this year...in fact, he'll be 21 when the season ends. And I was REALLY impressed with the way Johnson played at the WJC's. He's as good a defenseman as any I've ever seen at the junior level.

If I'm going to have to wait the better part of two years for these players to step in and make an impact, I'd rather take my chances here with Johnson. I don't think I could go wrong either way - this is like choosing between Brett Hull and Rob Blake or Scott Stevens. I just like what Johnson could do on the blueline over the course of the next 10-15 years, so I'll find myself a couple of scoring wingers in free agency.
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Postby Reilly on Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:53 pm

Daniel wrote:I just don't like the idea of taking Kessel. I can only go by what I read, but there is just something that doesn't seem right with taking him in the top 2. Perhaps Toews or Staal would be better than both, who knows.


:roll:
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:02 pm

Reilly wrote:
Daniel wrote:I just don't like the idea of taking Kessel. I can only go by what I read, but there is just something that doesn't seem right with taking him in the top 2. Perhaps Toews or Staal would be better than both, who knows.


:roll:


Does this mean you disagree? :lol:
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Postby Fast B on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:04 pm

Reilly wrote:With Gonchar, Whitney, Welch and Orpik for at least the next 4 years, I don't see why they would take another defenseman.


Even *if* we have Gonchar for the next four years, he'll be getting pretty old by the time Erik Johnson will be ready to play in the NHL. (to say nothing of the fact that he sucks).

We wouldn't be picking Johnson for now, but for the future. Even if Gonchar improves dramatically next season, he won't be here forever.
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Postby Reilly on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:17 pm

Fast B wrote:We wouldn't be picking Johnson for now, but for the future.


I think the Pens are at a point where they can't wait 5 more years for a player to fully develop.
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Postby jmh70 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:20 pm

Regehr + Blake is a bit of an exaggeration, but it does highlight the skills he possesses. It is also a large exaggeration to suggest that he will be ready by 07.


I look at it this way:

If the Pens take Kessel, they will eventually look like today's Thrashers: Three top class forwards but a below average or average defense.

If the Pens take Johnson, they will eventually look similar to today's Flames: Very good defense but average forwards.

Personally, I'd take the second situation.
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Postby Fast B on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:22 pm

Reilly wrote:
Fast B wrote:We wouldn't be picking Johnson for now, but for the future.


I think the Pens are at a point where they can't wait 5 more years for a player to fully develop.


I agree. I'm just saying that Gonchar's presence here now isn't a good enough reason to overlook Johnson in the draft.
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Postby Fast B on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:24 pm

jmh70 wrote:Regehr + Blake is a bit of an exaggeration, but it does highlight the skills he possesses. It is also a large exaggeration to suggest that he will be ready by 07.


I look at it this way:

If the Pens take Kessel, they will eventually look like today's Thrashers: Three top class forwards but a below average or average defense.

If the Pens take Johnson, they will eventually look similar to today's Flames: Very good defense but average forwards.

Personally, I'd take the second situation.


Actually, in your second example they would still have two top-class forwards along with that very good defense and goalie (probably). I would take that in a heartbeat.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:57 pm

Reilly wrote:
Fast B wrote:We wouldn't be picking Johnson for now, but for the future.


I think the Pens are at a point where they can't wait 5 more years for a player to fully develop.


I've read nothing that would suggest Kessel is any more ready for the NHL right now than Johnson is.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Stoosh wrote:Think about that...some people have suggested that Johnson - an 18-year old kid - could jump right past the NCAA AND the AHL to play a top-four role on this team next year? I just don't see it. I'm not sure if there's a player in the current or modern NHL that's done the equivalent of that...not as a defenseman. It takes too long to learn the position.

Jay Bowmeester in Florida played in the NHL in his draft year...never played in the AHL. I think Brad Stuart in San Jose did as well.
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Postby Daniel on Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:26 pm

Pitts wrote:
Stoosh wrote:Think about that...some people have suggested that Johnson - an 18-year old kid - could jump right past the NCAA AND the AHL to play a top-four role on this team next year? I just don't see it. I'm not sure if there's a player in the current or modern NHL that's done the equivalent of that...not as a defenseman. It takes too long to learn the position.

Jay Bowmeester in Florida played in the NHL in his draft year...never played in the AHL. I think Brad Stuart in San Jose did as well.


It might be easier for Johnson to play with the Pens next year, since the team will be very young (minus Gonchar). His mistakes won't be compounded because of expectations.
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Postby Reilly on Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:12 pm

netwolf wrote:
Reilly wrote:
Fast B wrote:We wouldn't be picking Johnson for now, but for the future.


I think the Pens are at a point where they can't wait 5 more years for a player to fully develop.


I've read nothing that would suggest Kessel is any more ready for the NHL right now than Johnson is.


You don't have to read anything. Just look at where they're playing right now. Kessel is in college. Johnson is in highschool. How would Johnson be anywhere close to Kessel in terms of readiness?

Bouwmeester went from the WHL to the NHL. The CHL is the best league for players neing prepared in the NHL. No one should comparing Bouwmeester's progress to where Johnson is.
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