Can anyone name some available players coming up in FA?

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Can anyone name some available players coming up in FA?

Postby cs6687 on Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:52 pm

nm.
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Postby borohcky9 on Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:08 pm

D- Frantisek Kaberle, Karlis Skrastins, Willie Mitchell, Niklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Joe Corvo, Nathan Dempsey, Danny Markov, Marek Zidlicky, Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden, Kim Johnssonj, Aki Berg, Ed Jovanovski, Ivan Majesky


F- David Vyborny, David Legwand, Jeff Halpern, Sergei Samsonov

Max Afinogenov could possibly be, but no one knows for sure.
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Postby wondermoose on Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:29 pm

I want Redden or Chara, those two know how to play defense, and I don't think Ottawa can afford both of them.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:45 pm

borohcky9 wrote:Max Afinogenov could possibly be, but no one knows for sure.


Anybody with sufficient reading comprehension to understand the NHL CBA FAQ posted at NHL.com knows for sure.
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Postby Stoosh on Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:51 pm

Honestly, if they're going to do anything in free agency, I'd almost rather see them spend money on balancing out the roster as opposed to investing a huge chunk of money in one player.

For what it may cost to sign an A-grade player like Chara or Redden, I'd almost rather see them spend the same money on a B-grade defenseman and maybe a C+ winger.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:59 pm

Stoosh wrote:Honestly, if they're going to do anything in free agency, I'd almost rather see them spend money on balancing out the roster as opposed to investing a huge chunk of money in one player.

For what it may cost to sign an A-grade player like Chara or Redden, I'd almost rather see them spend the same money on a B-grade defenseman and maybe a C+ winger.


Totally agree. Loading up on big $$$ UFAs is a total waste of $$$ for teams like the Pens that are 10+ players away from contending. They could pick up a few #3 type Dmen or 2nd/3rd line F types for the same $$$ it takes to sign a floater like Gonchar and/or Palffy.
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Postby borohcky9 on Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:58 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Stoosh wrote:Honestly, if they're going to do anything in free agency, I'd almost rather see them spend money on balancing out the roster as opposed to investing a huge chunk of money in one player.

For what it may cost to sign an A-grade player like Chara or Redden, I'd almost rather see them spend the same money on a B-grade defenseman and maybe a C+ winger.


Totally agree. Loading up on big $$$ UFAs is a total waste of $$$ for teams like the Pens that are 10+ players away from contending. They could pick up a few #3 type Dmen or 2nd/3rd line F types for the same $$$ it takes to sign a floater like Gonchar and/or Palffy.


Why would we need more 2nd/3rd line forwards? We have a ton of mid-level players already. We need a high profile wing.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:20 am

borohcky9 wrote:Why would we need more 2nd/3rd line forwards? We have a ton of mid-level players already. We need a high profile wing.


The Pens had a high profile wing and they still sucked with him. The time to add expensive high profile pieces is when the Pens are a player or two away from making a legitimate Cup run. Until then they need to build from within and add some young reasonably priced pieces that can grow with their core.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:21 am

I'm with Boro on this one. We have a roster full of role players, we need a knockout punch. A 30-40 goal man or two, this would push the half-decent players we already have into their ideal lines/situations. A solid defense-first defenseman would be ideal as well.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:26 am

Draftnik wrote:
borohcky9 wrote:Why would we need more 2nd/3rd line forwards? We have a ton of mid-level players already. We need a high profile wing.


The Pens had a high profile wing and they still sucked with him. The time to add expensive high profile pieces is when the Pens are a player or two away from making a legitimate Cup run. Until then they need to build from within and add some young reasonably priced pieces that can grow with their core.


So palffy was the reason we lost all of those games? I don't think so. And even if it was, you can't say adding a different player will have the same results as Palffy did. Legitimate scoring threats are not a bad thing to have.
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Postby wondermoose on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:37 am

We need a scorer, a Jonathan Cheechoo. We got Palffy to do that, which he did throughout his career, but he had 3x more assists than goals. Not what we were looking for.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:44 am

FallenHero96 wrote:So palffy was the reason we lost all of those games? I don't think so. And even if it was, you can't say adding a different player will have the same results as Palffy did. Legitimate scoring threats are not a bad thing to have.


The Pens need to thank their lucky stars Palffy retired. He isn't the reason they lost but he added absolutely nothing to help them win. Same with Gonchar. When they tie up 33% of their payroll in 2 players it cripples the franchise because they can't dress 20 legitimate NHL players. If you think the Pens are stocked with competent NHL role players we will agree to disagree. I think they need 10-15 new players. Look at the UFA signings that worked out well from the summer of 05. Most of them were teams adding a few pieces to round out an already solid core. Building through UFA has always been a recipe for disaster in the NHL. The teams that were most successful were complimenting an organic (draft/trade) core. With the Pens limited finances and the impossibility of unloading mistakes due to the Cap (Gonchar) the risk of high priced signings outweighs the possible reward of moving from 30th to 25th in the standings.

The UFA age will drop to 30 this offseason and eventually as low as 25-28 depending on when a player entered the NHL. As the age drops UFAs will become better buys since they may still be on an upward developmental curve. Right now signing 30+ year old players is a big waste of $$$ on guys with declining skills and production.

I'm turning in for the evening but maybe tomorrow I'll look up a link from the summer of 05 UFA class to show you how the Gonchars, Palffys, Khabibulins, Aucoins, Zhamnovs, Murrays, etc. far outnumber the Forsbergs.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:50 am

wondermoose wrote:We need a scorer, a Jonathan Cheechoo. We got Palffy to do that, which he did throughout his career, but he had 3x more assists than goals. Not what we were looking for.


Big difference. Cheechoo plays right into my point. I think his previous career high was 28 goals, definitely not many more than 30, but his career was on an upward tangent and his age in a range that indicated his production would increase. Thornton obviously helps as well. Palffy's production was declining and his age indicated the drop could be steep and immediate.

Most guys that are UFAs are declining in production due to advanced age. The UFA contract is a career achievement bonus paid to them for production provided for another organIzation. Appreciating assets won't be acquired through UFA.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:53 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=freeagentsignings&prov=st&type=lgns

Here is a list from Yahoo of UFAs that signed to play with new teams. I don't know if the list is complete, but it certainly is from a credible source, not some joke fan site at geocities.

Look at the guys that received multi-million dollar salaries to change teams. A cursory glance indicates conservatively 3 out of 4 signings did not work out well and the multi-year deals will only look worse as time passes.

The UFA age will go down over the next few years which should increase the success rate for signing UFAs, but there is no reason to think the Pens will be smarter than the rest of the league and consistently hit on the 25% of guys that pan out. The risk of getting the 75% compared to the reward of hitting on 25% and still probably not making the playoffs makes no sense. The Pens are severely restricted in what they can do next season because of Gonchar, LeClair, Roy, and Thibault (bad trade). Imagine if they still had to pay a soft floating piece of crap like Palffy $5M for each of the next 2 seasons. They will be limited in what they can do the next 4 years because of Gonchar. Mistakes signed to multi-year deals are unmovable until the last year of their contract.

If the Pens were 2 players away from being a legitimate Cup contender the risk of signing high priced UFAs to multi-year deals might make sense. Right now it makes no sense to add expensive pieces until their core is almost complete and more mature. Then they can shoot for a 2-4 year run as Crosby, Malkin, MAF enter their productive 4th-7th (some overlap, MAF ahead, Malkin behind) years with the Pens.
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:05 pm

Draftnik wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=freeagentsignings&prov=st&type=lgns

Here is a list from Yahoo of UFAs that signed to play with new teams. I don't know if the list is complete, but it certainly is from a credible source, not some joke fan site at geocities.

Look at the guys that received multi-million dollar salaries to change teams. A cursory glance indicates conservatively 3 out of 4 signings did not work out well and the multi-year deals will only look worse as time passes.

The UFA age will go down over the next few years which should increase the success rate for signing UFAs, but there is no reason to think the Pens will be smarter than the rest of the league and consistently hit on the 25% of guys that pan out. The risk of getting the 75% compared to the reward of hitting on 25% and still probably not making the playoffs makes no sense. The Pens are severely restricted in what they can do next season because of Gonchar, LeClair, Roy, and Thibault (bad trade). Imagine if they still had to pay a soft floating piece of crap like Palffy $5M for each of the next 2 seasons. They will be limited in what they can do the next 4 years because of Gonchar. Mistakes signed to multi-year deals are unmovable until the last year of their contract.

If the Pens were 2 players away from being a legitimate Cup contender the risk of signing high priced UFAs to multi-year deals might make sense. Right now it makes no sense to add expensive pieces until their core is almost complete and more mature. Then they can shoot for a 2-4 year run as Crosby, Malkin, MAF enter their productive 4th-7th (some overlap, MAF ahead, Malkin behind) years with the Pens.


I totally agree with you except on one point.

The biggest problem the Pens had was signing guys near the end of their prime or past their prime. If were to sign a big name guy who is in their prime than it would definitely improve the team.
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Postby Draftnik on Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:17 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I totally agree with you except on one point.

The biggest problem the Pens had was signing guys near the end of their prime or past their prime. If were to sign a big name guy who is in their prime than it would definitely improve the team.


I agree the Pens would be better if they signed a big name UFA in their prime, but what does better mean? They could sign a Chara for example and still not make the playoffs IMO. Big Z will likely get a 5 year deal in the $30M-$35M range. By the time the Pens are ready to contend in 2 or 3 seasons Z (and most summer 06 UFAs) will be in a downward tangent and not producing commensurately with his $5M-$7M salary. It makes much more sense IMO to wait 2 to 3 years to see what pieces the Pens are missing so they can #1) sign the right pieces and #2) get some production commensurate with their bloated salary.

Look at this season for example. Gonchar blows and he is only 31. How bad do you think he will suck in 3 more years when he is pulling down $6M and his Cap value is still $5M? His contract will severely limit what the Pens can do when they finally are good. The only UFAs they should sign in the next few seasons are guys willing to take 1 year deals.
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:28 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I totally agree with you except on one point.

The biggest problem the Pens had was signing guys near the end of their prime or past their prime. If were to sign a big name guy who is in their prime than it would definitely improve the team.


I agree the Pens would be better if they signed a big name UFA in their prime, but what does better mean? They could sign a Chara for example and still not make the playoffs IMO. Big Z will likely get a 5 year deal in the $30M-$35M range. By the time the Pens are ready to contend in 2 or 3 seasons Z (and most summer 06 UFAs) will be in a downward tangent and not producing commensurately with his $5M-$7M salary. It makes much more sense IMO to wait 2 to 3 years to see what pieces the Pens are missing so they can #1) sign the right pieces and #2) get some production commensurate with their bloated salary.

Look at this season for example. Gonchar blows and he is only 31. How bad do you think he will suck in 3 more years when he is pulling down $6M and his Cap value is still $5M? His contract will severely limit what the Pens can do when they finally are good. The only UFAs they should sign in the next few seasons are guys willing to take 1 year deals.


I guess it all depends on what level management feels the team is at. Or what kind of gamble they want to make.

I think that the team could contend for a playoff spot next year if they sign a premier d-man, winger, and have malkin come over. Along with improved play and experience from Christensen, Welch, Orpik, Malone, etc... they could compete for a playoff spot.

But it could make more sense to wait another year or two and not take that gamble.
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my thought

Postby Pens4Life on Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:46 pm

i think they should spent 3mil.$ at most for new d-man,UFA signing.
Only if they can trade away Gonchar. Cause we already have Whitney,Welch,Lannon,Orpik as young d-corps....
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Postby ville5 on Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:11 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:I totally agree with you except on one point.

The biggest problem the Pens had was signing guys near the end of their prime or past their prime. If were to sign a big name guy who is in their prime than it would definitely improve the team.


The only UFAs they should sign in the next few seasons are guys willing to take 1 year deals.

I think that is part of the beauty of the new CBA and the cap. You should start to see a shift to ALOT more 1 year deals. 2 years tops. Because no GM is gonna want to be strangled by a 4-5 year deal for a vet nearing the end of the line. Then the complacency and lackadaisical play of your Yashins and Roenicks and Tkachuks should come to end. They'll have to play for that next contract.
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Postby Stoosh on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:04 pm

I'd love to see Chara or Redden in a Pens sweater as much as the next Pens fan, but sometimes it really helps to take a step back and look at the big picture here, folks.

The Pens have 48 points with 11 games left to play. They'll need to pick up 10 of those remaining 22 points to match the point total of 58 from the '03-04 season. So with the way the team is playing right now, let's say they manage to accomplish that much. We finish the season with 58 points.

It's going to take upwards of about 90 points to qualify for the Cup playoffs next year. That means it's going to take an improvement of 32 points in the standings just to back into one of the bottom four seeds in the East.

Chara and Redden are each going to command Scott Niedermeyer money and maybe more. You're going to be looking at $6-7 million a year and some significant years (3-5 years) to sign either of those two on the open market. You've already got $5 million tied up over the next four years in Gonchar (who can be valuable if used properly...more on that in a minute). So if it costs you another 4 years @ $7 million per to bring in Chara or Redden, you've now tied up $48 million over the next four years in two defensemen.

I'll even give them the benefit of the doubt and say Malkin comes over. Are those two enough to make up those 32 points you need just to compete for a playoff spot next year? I doubt it. You still haven't addressed your gaping hole at wing. You still haven't re-signed your franchise goalie or any of your other free agents, so it's not like there's going to be much cap room to go out and upgrade at other spots.

So why waste that money on one guy when you could very easily balance out your roster with some lesser names? If you're going to overpay for someone, overpay for a guy like Willie Mitchell. Mitchell might cost you some money, but he still could be signed for significantly less than Chara or Redden. Plus you know what you're getting with him and he can be an integral part of your future beyond two seasons. Or take another step down and go a couple of players like Markov, Kaberle, Dempsey or Hal Gill.

As far as wingers go, I'll reserve judgment on free agents until I see a more complete list of pending UFAs. But I'd also seriously explore the possibility of dealing the first-round pick for a relatively young winger as well.

It's about getting value for the personnel moves and sticking to the plan. Patrick made the mistake of using free agency to replace the rebuilding process rather than supplement it. We can't afford to do it again by throwing a ton of money at someone like Chara and Redden. This club is still too far away from serious contention to justify that kind of investment in one player.
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Postby Pitts on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:23 pm

All of that assumes Chara or Redden would even think of coming here to play. Considering they should get very lucrative deals from teams already in the playoff picture...call it a pipe dream.
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Postby Stoosh on Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:11 pm

Pitts,

I agree with that completely. If you're looking at it from a pure hockey standpoint, Pittsburgh wouldn't be a BAD destination to some free agents because the pieces are clearly in place for the club to improve. But this team is still at least another full season away from being a legitimate playoff contender, so I don't see that being an attractive option for someone like Chara or Redden.

I'm just using them as examples because they're two of the biggest names in free agency, and I can already hear the barrage of complaints coming when they sign with someone other than the Pens.
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Postby Paulie_Walnutz on Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

borohcky9 wrote:D- Frantisek Kaberle, Karlis Skrastins, Willie Mitchell, Niklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Joe Corvo, Nathan Dempsey, Danny Markov, Marek Zidlicky, Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden, Kim Johnssonj, Aki Berg, Ed Jovanovski, Ivan Majesky


F- David Vyborny, David Legwand, Jeff Halpern, Sergei Samsonov

Max Afinogenov could possibly be, but no one knows for sure.


There are very many players on that list who I would like to see, but I'll list the realistic possibilities.
Defense. Chara-no way Ottawa parts with this guy. Lidstrom - the best offensive defenseman in the game since Coffey in his prime. With Yzerman most likely retiring, Lidstrom will remain a Wing. Markov - I'm kind of on the fense with him. He is one of those players who isn't quite in his prime anymore. I'd be worried that his ability could turn south. I wouldn't sign him for alot of money. Redden - I'll say, that if the Pens want to get a good, responsible defenseman to teach Welch, this is the guy they need to get. Seems like a pretty realistic signing. I could go either way with Berg and Jonsson. Jovo would be a nice addition, but I'm trying to be too realistic.

As for forwards, I think the Pens do need a speedy winger, who can finish to put along side Crosby. Malone would work, I feel, but he could not keep up in the skating department. Legwand or Afinogenov seem like logical picks, but I don't think it will happen. However, what I think they need even more is a good, reliable 3rd line center. In this case, I do believe that Halpern will be in Pittsburgh next year. Wait, Halpern is a center isn't he??? If so, I think this will show that Malone as a center was just an experiment. I think Malone will be far more valueble on the 2nd line with Malkin, than as the 3rd line center. Provided he doesn't come out of training camp with the attitude that it's his birthrite to be on the team.
And they will round out the 4th line with a combination of Roy, Talbot, Vandenbusche, Koltsov.
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Postby NIN on Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:46 pm

Paulie_Walnutz wrote:
borohcky9 wrote:D- Frantisek Kaberle, Karlis Skrastins, Willie Mitchell, Niklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Joe Corvo, Nathan Dempsey, Danny Markov, Marek Zidlicky, Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden, Kim Johnssonj, Aki Berg, Ed Jovanovski, Ivan Majesky


F- David Vyborny, David Legwand, Jeff Halpern, Sergei Samsonov

Max Afinogenov could possibly be, but no one knows for sure.


There are very many players on that list who I would like to see, but I'll list the realistic possibilities.
Defense. Chara-no way Ottawa parts with this guy. Lidstrom - the best offensive defenseman in the game since Coffey in his prime. With Yzerman most likely retiring, Lidstrom will remain a Wing. Markov - I'm kind of on the fense with him. He is one of those players who isn't quite in his prime anymore. I'd be worried that his ability could turn south. I wouldn't sign him for alot of money. Redden - I'll say, that if the Pens want to get a good, responsible defenseman to teach Welch, this is the guy they need to get. Seems like a pretty realistic signing. I could go either way with Berg and Jonsson. Jovo would be a nice addition, but I'm trying to be too realistic.

As for forwards, I think the Pens do need a speedy winger, who can finish to put along side Crosby. Malone would work, I feel, but he could not keep up in the skating department. Legwand or Afinogenov seem like logical picks, but I don't think it will happen. However, what I think they need even more is a good, reliable 3rd line center. In this case, I do believe that Halpern will be in Pittsburgh next year. Wait, Halpern is a center isn't he??? If so, I think this will show that Malone as a center was just an experiment. I think Malone will be far more valueble on the 2nd line with Malkin, than as the 3rd line center. Provided he doesn't come out of training camp with the attitude that it's his birthrite to be on the team.
And they will round out the 4th line with a combination of Roy, Talbot, Vandenbusche, Koltsov.


Afiniganev is actually an RFA this season, so I think you can move over to the unrealistic list. Unfortunately.
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Postby Paulie_Walnutz on Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:59 pm

NIN wrote:
Paulie_Walnutz wrote:
borohcky9 wrote:D- Frantisek Kaberle, Karlis Skrastins, Willie Mitchell, Niklas Lidstrom, Andreas Lilja, Joe Corvo, Nathan Dempsey, Danny Markov, Marek Zidlicky, Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden, Kim Johnssonj, Aki Berg, Ed Jovanovski, Ivan Majesky


F- David Vyborny, David Legwand, Jeff Halpern, Sergei Samsonov

Max Afinogenov could possibly be, but no one knows for sure.


There are very many players on that list who I would like to see, but I'll list the realistic possibilities.
Defense. Chara-no way Ottawa parts with this guy. Lidstrom - the best offensive defenseman in the game since Coffey in his prime. With Yzerman most likely retiring, Lidstrom will remain a Wing. Markov - I'm kind of on the fense with him. He is one of those players who isn't quite in his prime anymore. I'd be worried that his ability could turn south. I wouldn't sign him for alot of money. Redden - I'll say, that if the Pens want to get a good, responsible defenseman to teach Welch, this is the guy they need to get. Seems like a pretty realistic signing. I could go either way with Berg and Jonsson. Jovo would be a nice addition, but I'm trying to be too realistic.

As for forwards, I think the Pens do need a speedy winger, who can finish to put along side Crosby. Malone would work, I feel, but he could not keep up in the skating department. Legwand or Afinogenov seem like logical picks, but I don't think it will happen. However, what I think they need even more is a good, reliable 3rd line center. In this case, I do believe that Halpern will be in Pittsburgh next year. Wait, Halpern is a center isn't he??? If so, I think this will show that Malone as a center was just an experiment. I think Malone will be far more valueble on the 2nd line with Malkin, than as the 3rd line center. Provided he doesn't come out of training camp with the attitude that it's his birthrite to be on the team.
And they will round out the 4th line with a combination of Roy, Talbot, Vandenbusche, Koltsov.


Afiniganev is actually an RFA this season, so I think you can move over to the unrealistic list. Unfortunately.

Well, that was based on the names provided. However, I think the biggest need is for that 3rd line center, who can step up to the 2nd line if need be. And I think Halpern is that guy. Plus, I don't think he will command that much money. With all of the rumors going on in the last 4 years, I can't say that it's impossible. However, Nik Antropov has been rumored to be traded to Pitt, virtually, ever since he donned a Leafs jersey.

As for someone with speed who can play, and keep up with Crosby, I think that will come from within. Perhaps, Oullette can improve on his speed in the offseason.

Could you imagine if Oullette had the wheels of Koltsov.
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