NHL Bias

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NHL Bias

Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:26 am

These last two Sunday games against Toronto and Montreal have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is indeed a subconscious bias amonst NHL referees and officials in favor of Canadian teams. Last Sunday against Toronto, it was there. It was one of the few games this year where the refs swallowed the whistle. And amazingly, who does that favor but the old slow Maple Laughingstocks? But the NHL needs eastern Canadian teams in the playoffs, so my guess is if you watch most Toronto games, you will see this type of officiating.

But last night took the cake. First, St. Pierre allows a blatant hit from behind by the Habs to go uncalled, leading to a goal. Then, Armstrong scores a legitimate goal and St. Pierre is baffled, then goes to Toronto for help. Well, imagine that, the Canadian warroom helping the Habs. I'm shocked. And yes, that was a legitimate goal. We slow-mo'd the slow motion replay on TiVo, and it was clearly obvious that Armstrong did not move his arm to direct the puck until after the puck had hit him. This is fully covered under NHL Rules 57c and d.

c. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who deliberately bats the puck with any part of his body across the goal line. A goal cannot be scored where an attacking player bats the puck and it is deflected off any player or goalkeeper into the net.
d. If an attacking player has the puck deflect into the net, off his skate or body, in any manner, the goal shall be allowed. The player who deflected the puck shall be credited with the goal.


Now, if I have the technology in my living room to slow this down and see that the puck hit him before he made a "batting motion," then surely they have even better in the warroom. So there can be no other explanation for this other than deliberate bias in favor of Canadian teams.
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Re: NHL Bias

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:28 am

Mad City Mike wrote:These last two Sunday games against Toronto and Montreal have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is indeed a subconscious bias amonst NHL referees and officials in favor of Canadian teams. Last Sunday against Toronto, it was there. It was one of the few games this year where the refs swallowed the whistle. And amazingly, who does that favor but the old slow Maple Laughingstocks? But the NHL needs eastern Canadian teams in the playoffs, so my guess is if you watch most Toronto games, you will see this type of officiating.

But last night took the cake. First, St. Pierre allows a blatant hit from behind by the Habs to go uncalled, leading to a goal. Then, Armstrong scores a legitimate goal and St. Pierre is baffled, then goes to Toronto for help. Well, imagine that, the Canadian warroom helping the Habs. I'm shocked. And yes, that was a legitimate goal. We slow-mo'd the slow motion replay on TiVo, and it was clearly obvious that Armstrong did not move his arm to direct the puck until after the puck had hit him. This is fully covered under NHL Rules 57c and d.

c. A goal cannot be scored by an attacking player who deliberately bats the puck with any part of his body across the goal line. A goal cannot be scored where an attacking player bats the puck and it is deflected off any player or goalkeeper into the net.
d. If an attacking player has the puck deflect into the net, off his skate or body, in any manner, the goal shall be allowed. The player who deflected the puck shall be credited with the goal.


Now, if I have the technology in my living room to slow this down and see that the puck hit him before he made a "batting motion," then surely they have even better in the warroom. So there can be no other explanation for this other than deliberate bias in favor of Canadian teams.


Which is strange considering their boss hails from Moon Twp. :-)
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Re: NHL Bias

Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:36 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Which is strange considering their boss hails from Moon Twp. :-)


Does he control the warroom too?
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Re: NHL Bias

Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:41 am

Mad City Mike wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
Which is strange considering their boss hails from Moon Twp. :-)


Does he control the warroom too?


It would make sense that he does. That operations center would be one of the main tools at his disposal for overseeing his duties.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:43 am

By the way Mike, glad to see you're back to being your old self... your optimism was begining to scare me. :shock: :twisted: :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:47 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:By the way Mike, glad to see you're back to being your old self... your optimism was begining to scare me. :shock: :twisted: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Not to mention that non-goal that was given to, oh, my, it was Calgary, earlier this year. Amazing that all these strange things happen against Canadian teams, isn't it?

There is at least a strong subconscious bias working for Canadian teams and against cellar-dwellers this year.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:54 am

Mad City Mike wrote:
Not to mention that non-goal that was given to, oh, my, it was Calgary, earlier this year. Amazing that all these strange things happen against Canadian teams, isn't it?

There is at least a strong subconscious bias working for Canadian teams and against cellar-dwellers this year.


I think the bias against poor teams is something that happens every year and in all sports.

It's a respect thing.

I think I've mentioned many times on LGP about the fact that I wore a "stripped shirt" in different sports for many years.

It was very very difficult not to give the benefit of the doubt to Veteran well performing teams over youthful underperformers.

It's a human instinct. They're playing the game at a higher level so obviously they're better at staying within the rules too right?

That's an easy trap for an offical to fall into subconciously.

Now these guys are professional officials with years of experience making outrageous money. But it still happens, right or wrong. The league needs to really work with them about it in the off-season.

On a related note, the league *is* trying. Did you read the article that said during the Olympic break the officials were all brought back to a central location (Toronto?) and given a 'refresher course' on the new rules?
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Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:32 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
On a related note, the league *is* trying. Did you read the article that said during the Olympic break the officials were all brought back to a central location (Toronto?) and given a 'refresher course' on the new rules?


Apparently many of them slept through these meetings. Oh, and of course last night's buffoon du jour, Blind Massenhoven, was over in Torino screwing up the Olympics.
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Postby netwolf on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:34 pm

I only saw one TV reply in my box at the game last night, and I thought Armstrong's arm did not move until after it had hit him as well. Thanks for the slow-motion validation. :wink:

And again, Justin St. Pierre is listed in the game program as a minor league referee. That should shock no one. :?
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:51 pm

Ok so I understand the rule and all of that.... and whether he directed in or not is up for debate.

But my question is, why should it be against the rules to redirect a puck in with your hand, head, leg, knee or any other part of your body? Goals arent scored that often, and some might say it makes sense to be able to get it in any way you can. So why should it not count if someone directs it with their hand? Does the league think it will have players dropping thier sticks and trying to throw the puck in or what?

What is the reason for this rule? Does anyone think it should be changed?
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Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:27 pm

netwolf wrote:I only saw one TV reply in my box at the game last night, and I thought Armstrong's arm did not move until after it had hit him as well. Thanks for the slow-motion validation. :wink:

And again, Justin St. Pierre is listed in the game program as a minor league referee. That should shock no one. :?


Plus, he's French (at least absed on that name). So he has a double bias.

I tried to look him up on the NHL Officials' site, but they don't have a bio of him. That's how low in the pecking order he is.
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Postby Guido on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:32 pm

well, for one, you cannot close your hand on the puck and hold it. for two, you'd have players lobbing it into the air in the slot where 7 ft. tall guys are waiting to dunk the puck into the net.

No, the rule is correct, no batting into the goal....you're thinking about basketball.

Close call on armstrong's elbow goal. His intent was to bat it in, did it deflect off his elbow BEFORE he could bat it? who knows.
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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:37 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:Ok so I understand the rule and all of that.... and whether he directed in or not is up for debate.

But my question is, why should it be against the rules to redirect a puck in with your hand, head, leg, knee or any other part of your body? Goals arent scored that often, and some might say it makes sense to be able to get it in any way you can. So why should it not count if someone directs it with their hand? Does the league think it will have players dropping thier sticks and trying to throw the puck in or what?

What is the reason for this rule? Does anyone think it should be changed?


If not for the rule you could pick up the puck and attempt to throw it into the net. I like the rule. the players have sticks for a reason.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:48 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:Ok so I understand the rule and all of that.... and whether he directed in or not is up for debate.

But my question is, why should it be against the rules to redirect a puck in with your hand, head, leg, knee or any other part of your body? Goals arent scored that often, and some might say it makes sense to be able to get it in any way you can. So why should it not count if someone directs it with their hand? Does the league think it will have players dropping thier sticks and trying to throw the puck in or what?

What is the reason for this rule? Does anyone think it should be changed?


If not for the rule you could pick up the puck and attempt to throw it into the net. I like the rule. the players have sticks for a reason.


Do you actually think that any player would be attempting to pick up the puck? I don't, unless they are in the crease on their belly. But even so, then keep the rule to where you cannot close your hand on the puck, so you will never have anyone grabbing it. Now, still why shouldnt a player be allowed to swat the puck in with his hand, or put it in with a kicking motion, or delibrately steer it in with any part of his body?

I can see the rule with the kicking motion, you dont want players accidently kicking each other with sharp skate blades trying to score, but that isnt likely to happen anyways. Just because you allow a kicking motion to score, doesnt make the game soccer. I really dont think it would affect gameplay, just more goals would be counted. I would understand if they left that one intact though.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:51 pm

Sure you'll get the very occasional goal that is disallowed because of the writing of the rules. As far as changing things though, there comes a point where it's not hockey anymore.

Imagine the Crosby flip pass to Colby and Rita both standing in front of the goal swatting away with their hands like they were trying to beat off a purse snatcher.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:02 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:Sure you'll get the very occasional goal that is disallowed because of the writing of the rules. As far as changing things though, there comes a point where it's not hockey anymore.

Imagine the Crosby flip pass to Colby and Rita both standing in front of the goal swatting away with their hands like they were trying to beat off a purse snatcher.


But that's my point, do you really think it would come to that? I'm not saying it wouldn't.... i really dont know.

On one hand, I can see guys doing what ever they can to get a goal, including the purse snatcher bit. On the other hand, these guys have played hockey all their lives a certain way, and they arent going to change it. I just cant see anyone dropping thier stick and trying to smack the puck around. For these guys, its easier to control the puck with the stick than with their hands.

Its probably best the rule is kept the way it is, but im just trying to think outside of the box.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:14 pm

Hey Boom Boom, why are you raising your stick in that haphazard manner and using a swinging motion to hit the puck?

I guess I would say it might not be an immediate change, but I wouldn't fault anyone for taking advantage of whatever they can to win. Lou and the mighty Devils, boring as it was, won the cup. I'm sure even their fans didn't enjoy watching some of those games, but they won.

If Endicott has to go out there with no stick and mittens because that's how the rules are written, then I say go for it Shane.
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Postby BurghThing on Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:06 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:If Endicott has to go out there with no stick and mittens because that's how the rules are written, then I say go for it Shane.


Actually I'm all in favor of Endicott going out without a stick. Its not like he could play any worse.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:13 pm

BurghThing wrote:Actually I'm all in favor of Endicott going out without a stick. Its not like he could play any worse.


Exactly. I say, lets get the rules rewritten to allow swatted in goals, and send him out there with two blocker gloves on. Go to the net slug, go to the net.
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Postby Jamie on Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:07 pm

BurghThing wrote:
Vanbiesbrouck wrote:If Endicott has to go out there with no stick and mittens because that's how the rules are written, then I say go for it Shane.


Actually I'm all in favor of Endicott going out without a stick. Its not like he could play any worse.


Actually, I think they should give Endo an extra wide tennis raquet and tell him to swing for the net, but he stinks so bad he would probably screw that up to.
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Postby Peter on Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:03 pm

Boo hoo the refs the refs.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:31 am

Peter wrote:Boo hoo the refs the refs.


Thanks for sharing that insightful post peter
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Postby Peter on Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:47 am

Wow, you're up at 5:30 too? Cool.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:49 am

Peter wrote:Wow, you're up at 5:30 too? Cool.


Yeah, I have a strange schedule. And I have a laptop that I keep a browser window with LGP running all the time.. guess I'm addicted :-)
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Postby Admin on Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:52 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:And I have a laptop that I keep a browser window with LGP running all the time.. guess I'm addicted :-)

Oh, we're definitely going to have to move the tiiming of EPPs intervention sooner, people. Can everyone make it today at lunch?
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