List of politicans supporting IOC grows

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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:39 pm

SportsFan wrote:http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2006/02/13/daily14.html

"Forest City Enterprises, which wants to build a casino in Pittsburgh that would be operated by Harrah's Entertainment, told local officials its slots plan would be worth nearly $120 million more to the city and state than competing proposals."


IOC is now just coming out with their PR blitz. So I expect most of FC's numbers to be refuted, just like FC was slinging mud at IOC.

I still want an answer to the traffic issues. Which I think is a huge concern for a casino in that area.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:46 pm

SportsFan wrote:IOC said City would get a million a year revenue, The guy from Harrah's Entertainment was on Fred Honsberger the other day and said they could triple that amount.

Now they may also throw some in for a new arena.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=94668


I'm very skeptical of Forest City/Station Square/Harrah's because every time I hear them talk I hear words like "could", "might", or "may."

Let's look at worst case scenario for each. If Harrah's fails to deliver on their projections, the city will have a slots casino and that's it. Those condos (right next to the railroad I might add) might not get built if the projections aren't met. If the IoC project tanks, the city still gets a $290 million multipurpose facility at no cost to them. Not "they might get one" the arena is built off the top. Make no mistake, the city will have to replace it sooner or later. If not now, guess who gets pay for it? I'll guarantee you the politicians won't be giving back anything out of their pockets to help out.

Until another applicant is willing to put that kind of money where their mouth is, I don't care to listen.
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Postby SportsFan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:52 pm

how can you not like 120 Million going into the city and the state?


As a person getting ready to graduate college, I am more into this slot thing for what it means to my future, then what it means to the Penguins.

If they give 120 Million and it builds up the state and gets it moving in the right direction I am all for it.

Trust me, no matter what Plan goes, The pens get a arena. I just dont get the whole love fest over the IOC. I know Mario backs them and they promise 290 million to the city for a new arena, but outside of that what does it do for the community? Pittsburgh is losing its schools and Public Safety is severly damaged. Money is a huge issue.

IOC said they will build up Hill District, but there even starting to move away from that. They now say "They will throw SOMEmoney towards it"

John Steigerwald is a idiot BTW.
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:58 pm

SportsFan wrote:how can you not like 120 Million going into the city and the state?


As a person getting ready to graduate college, I am more into this slot thing for what it means to my future, then what it means to the Penguins.

If they give 120 Million and it builds up the state and gets it moving in the right direction I am all for it.

Trust me, no matter what Plan goes, The pens get a arena. I just dont get the whole love fest over the IOC. I know Mario backs them and they promise 290 million to the city for a new arena, but outside of that what does it do for the community? Pittsburgh is losing its schools and Public Safety is severly damaged. Money is a huge issue.

IOC said they will build up Hill District, but there even starting to move away from that. They now say "They will throw SOMEmoney towards it"

John Steigerwald is a idiot BTW.


How is the bolded statement true?

No other plan has even pledged partial money at this point.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:02 pm

The $290 million IoC spends on the arena means there is $290 million that will NOT come out of the city, county, and state coffers. That's $290 million that can be used for any project you want. Pump some into the school system, pump some into local fire and police departments. Do whatever you want.

Also, with the IoC plan the slots parlor is in the downtown area. Drawing more people into downtown would be better than drawing more people into Station Square. A downtown restaurant or bar own isn't going to get much fallout business from a Station Square parlor. Those people will hit up the restaurants there. Both scaenarios would put money into the city and county, but the IoC location would bring more people into downtown which is something the other plan would not do.
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:06 pm

netwolf wrote:The $290 million IoC spends on the arena means there is $290 million that will NOT come out of the city, county, and state coffers. That's $290 million that can be used for any project you want. Pump some into the school system, pump some into local fire and police departments. Do whatever you want.

Also, with the IoC plan the slots parlor is in the downtown area. Drawing more people into downtown would be better than drawing more people into Station Square. A downtown restaurant or bar own isn't going to get much fallout business from a Station Square parlor. Those people will hit up the restaurants there. Both scaenarios would put money into the city and county, but the IoC location would bring more people into downtown which is something the other plan would not do.


That was very well put.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:08 pm

I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.
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Postby SportsFan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:12 pm

netwolf wrote: but the IoC location would bring more people into downtown which is something the other plan would not do.


What are you talking about?

So putting the casino at SS wouldn't generate business for the downtown area?

"The plan expands Station Square into a bustling new urban mixed-use residential and entertainment community. This will include ground-floor retail, sidewalk dining and cafe eateries, a 400,000-square-foot, $512 million Harrah's Station Square Casino with 3,000 slots, an additional 200 rooms at the Sheraton Station Square Hotel and 1,250 residential condominium units. All of these new elements will be connected by pedestrian scaled streets, creating a neighborhood look and feel. The residential units will have porches and stoops, accompanied by new parks and a riverside esplanade offering improved river access. With more than 50 acres at Station Square, the plan also allows for future expansion of the casino to 5,000 slots and the creation of a new hotel tower with 300-500 rooms.

Forest City and Harrah's also unveiled a significant philanthropic commitment to Pittsburgh, both now and in the long-term, that will be realized should they secure the license to develop a casino, as follows:

- First, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will enable the
Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation to establish an endowment
of $25 million. Proceeds to the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks
Foundation will be invested with its existing funds and used to support
and expand programs to revitalize inner city neighborhoods
.

- In addition, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will give a
total of more than $1 million a year through a foundation to support
the community. Half of the funds must be used in neighborhoods with a
60 percent or higher minority population. Franco Harris will lead the
effort to give these funds back to the community. This money will be
made available as soon as the license is secured.:
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Postby SportsFan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:14 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.


Once again, Rendell has NO SAY SO in this whatsoever.

He is trying a plan B to help the team stay, what some have ******** what he wasn't doing.

Did you watch, Casion life on PNC the other night? It should be on again this week, watch it. It will explain alot to you.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:16 pm

"Half of the funds must be used in neighborhoods with a
60 percent or higher minority population." ---

What kind of crap is that? Only minorities need their neighborhoods improved? Pfff.
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:16 pm

SportsFan wrote:
netwolf wrote: but the IoC location would bring more people into downtown which is something the other plan would not do.


What are you talking about?

So putting the casino at SS wouldn't generate business for the downtown area?

"The plan expands Station Square into a bustling new urban mixed-use residential and entertainment community. This will include ground-floor retail, sidewalk dining and cafe eateries, a 400,000-square-foot, $512 million Harrah's Station Square Casino with 3,000 slots, an additional 200 rooms at the Sheraton Station Square Hotel and 1,250 residential condominium units. All of these new elements will be connected by pedestrian scaled streets, creating a neighborhood look and feel. The residential units will have porches and stoops, accompanied by new parks and a riverside esplanade offering improved river access. With more than 50 acres at Station Square, the plan also allows for future expansion of the casino to 5,000 slots and the creation of a new hotel tower with 300-500 rooms.

Forest City and Harrah's also unveiled a significant philanthropic commitment to Pittsburgh, both now and in the long-term, that will be realized should they secure the license to develop a casino, as follows:

- First, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will enable the
Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation to establish an endowment
of $25 million. Proceeds to the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks
Foundation will be invested with its existing funds and used to support
and expand programs to revitalize inner city neighborhoods
.

- In addition, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will give a
total of more than $1 million a year through a foundation to support
the community. Half of the funds must be used in neighborhoods with a
60 percent or higher minority population. Franco Harris will lead the
effort to give these funds back to the community. This money will be
made available as soon as the license is secured.:



Once again...where is all this supposed new traffic gonna go? I don't get it.
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:16 pm

SportsFan wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.


Once again, Rendell has NO SAY SO in this whatsoever.

He is trying a plan B to help the team stay, what some have ******** what he wasn't doing.

Did you watch, Casion life on PNC the other night? It should be on again this week, watch it. It will explain alot to you.


If you really believe Rendell has no say in who gets the slots liscense you are very very naive.
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Postby SportsFan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:18 pm

If you think he does, then you don't know what you are talking about. Espically since it may be selected when he is out of office, which is a slim chance in my eyes, since Swann has showed no idea of a plan to anyone.
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:20 pm

SportsFan wrote:If you think he does, then you don't know what you are talking about. Espically since it may be selected when he is out of office, which is a slim chance in my eyes, since Swann has showed no idea of a plan to anyone.


Rendell is as crooked as they come. As are all politicians. He has his dirty hands all over this, and I think you are the only person who doesn't see it.
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Postby SportsFan on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:21 pm

skullman80 wrote:
SportsFan wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.


Once again, Rendell has NO SAY SO in this whatsoever.

He is trying a plan B to help the team stay, what some have ******** what he wasn't doing.

Did you watch, Casion life on PNC the other night? It should be on again this week, watch it. It will explain alot to you.


If you really believe Rendell has no say in who gets the slots liscense you are very very naive.


So you think they will build a casino and hotels without a idea of traffic?

You aren't a brain surgeon?
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Postby skullman80 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:23 pm

SportsFan wrote:
skullman80 wrote:
SportsFan wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.


Once again, Rendell has NO SAY SO in this whatsoever.

He is trying a plan B to help the team stay, what some have ******** what he wasn't doing.

Did you watch, Casion life on PNC the other night? It should be on again this week, watch it. It will explain alot to you.


If you really believe Rendell has no say in who gets the slots liscense you are very very naive.


So you think they will build a casino and hotels without a idea of traffic?

You aren't a brain surgeon?


I am just curious as to how they would route the flow of traffic. As I stated before Carson street is the only major street down there. It can't be widened that I am aware of. Are we just gonna erect bridges and put them up.

I'm honestly curious as to what they would do with the traffic situation since it is an absolute nightmare down there now.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:35 pm

SportsFan wrote:What are you talking about?

So putting the casino at SS wouldn't generate business for the downtown area?

"The plan expands Station Square into a bustling new urban mixed-use residential and entertainment community. This will include ground-floor retail, sidewalk dining and cafe eateries, a 400,000-square-foot, $512 million Harrah's Station Square Casino with 3,000 slots, an additional 200 rooms at the Sheraton Station Square Hotel and 1,250 residential condominium units. All of these new elements will be connected by pedestrian scaled streets, creating a neighborhood look and feel. The residential units will have porches and stoops, accompanied by new parks and a riverside esplanade offering improved river access. With more than 50 acres at Station Square, the plan also allows for future expansion of the casino to 5,000 slots and the creation of a new hotel tower with 300-500 rooms.

Forest City and Harrah's also unveiled a significant philanthropic commitment to Pittsburgh, both now and in the long-term, that will be realized should they secure the license to develop a casino, as follows:

- First, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will enable the
Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation to establish an endowment
of $25 million. Proceeds to the Pittsburgh History and Landmarks
Foundation will be invested with its existing funds and used to support
and expand programs to revitalize inner city neighborhoods
.

- In addition, the Forest City/Harrah's development proposal will give a
total of more than $1 million a year through a foundation to support
the community. Half of the funds must be used in neighborhoods with a
60 percent or higher minority population. Franco Harris will lead the
effort to give these funds back to the community. This money will be
made available as soon as the license is secured.:


If you are in a slots parlor at Station Square and decide to go out after for drinks or something to eat, where are you more likely to go: one of the several restuarants in the same development (or one of the new one promised in the quote you posted) or going across the river to someplace downtown? Sure some will venture downtown, but most people will go to what's closest. Sure, all the taxes pour into the same place but if you want people coming into downtown it's common sense to put thind in the downtown area to draw them in.

Per your posts, the FC plan gives $120 to the city and state, and another $25 million for the Landmarks foundation, then an annual donation of $1 million for neighborhood development, half of which has restictions on where it can be used. Then there is a bunch of other developments planned which hinge on FC living up to projections.

IoC provides $290 million up front for the arena up front, which essentially frees up $290 million for the city/county/state to do whatever they want with, no restictions. They also have a bunch of other developments planned which hinge on their ability to live up to their projections.

$290 million vs. $120 million + $25 million + $1 million per year.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:38 am

Zscout wrote:I wonder how much Swann and the eleven cost IOC to show support in a process they have no say in.


Beautiful! Accuse Swann of taking bribes... sure, lets bribe a guy who's running for political office, not the one who's *in* office. :roll:

Zscout wrote:What a joke.
Why won't investors put a billion into the Hill development - without the casino?


Oh yeah, and throw me a billion dollars while your at it... :roll:

Why in gods name would anyone do that? The casino is the bedrock to this whole proposal. Pay attention man.


Zscout wrote:Where have these eleven been the last decade? Where were they during the bankruptcy? Why haven't they thrown any energy into getting a deal done five years ago?



What deal? Five years ago (and it was seven btw) there was NO slots license. That's the whole point here... PRIVATE money so not only is there NO TAX MONEY used, but the $90 million earmarked for the arena can be used for other purposes.

Dude... you gotta quit huff'n that Elmers Glue.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:08 am

SportsFan wrote:Trust me, no matter what Plan goes, The pens get a arena. I just dont get the whole love fest over the IOC. I know Mario backs them and they promise 290 million to the city for a new arena, but outside of that what does it do for the community? Pittsburgh is losing its schools and Public Safety is severly damaged. Money is a huge issue.


Wow. Where do I start?

Educate yourself. You say your graduating from college? What college? Most of the schools I'm aware of teach students the value of research and analysis. (You didn't really go to college did you? I'll bet you really went to Pitt :-) :-) (inside WVU - sorry couldn't resist))

Seriously though. The IoC plan offers more for PITTSBURGH than any competing plan. That's INDISPUTABLE. It's arguable (And this is the Gov. Argument) that FC / Harrahs is better for the state. The argument is that Harrahs wil generate more Tax revenue because their proposal calls for a higher gross than either Barden or IoC (This is highly debatable since in order for Harrahs to acheive the $564.10 - per slot machine figure they'd have to be the single most profitable slots operation in the nation!)

IoC is the only plan which offers to PRIVATELY finance an Arena (Freeing up $90 million plus of tax money for other purposes like schools etc...)

IoC is also the ONLY plan that offers to spend ANY money between the Mon and Allegheny River (uh, if you don;t already know, that's where downtown PITTSBURGH is).

IoC is the ONLY plan which offers to rebuild a blighted, economicly challenged part of Pittsburgh.

Oh yeah, and IoC is the only plan which gaurantees the Pens stay in Pittsburgh.
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Postby dboss on Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:25 pm

skullman80 wrote:
SportsFan wrote:
skullman80 wrote:
SportsFan wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I think it could be true. I really feel like they will get a new arena.... because of the penguins fans and the public. The only thing short of kidnapping Rendell and making him do it would be to apply public pressure. With the emails, the new arena chants, constant hassling by people, media, and the penguins.... it had an effect. Without all of this pressure, I doubt you would have seen Rendell offer up his "Plan B". But hey, who knows.


Once again, Rendell has NO SAY SO in this whatsoever.

He is trying a plan B to help the team stay, what some have ******** what he wasn't doing.

Did you watch, Casion life on PNC the other night? It should be on again this week, watch it. It will explain alot to you.


If you really believe Rendell has no say in who gets the slots liscense you are very very naive.


So you think they will build a casino and hotels without a idea of traffic?

You aren't a brain surgeon?


I am just curious as to how they would route the flow of traffic. As I stated before Carson street is the only major street down there. It can't be widened that I am aware of. Are we just gonna erect bridges and put them up.

I'm honestly curious as to what they would do with the traffic situation since it is an absolute nightmare down there now.


Actually FC has come up with a great idea! They are going to have hand held wireless slot machines distributed by attendants walking up and down the new parking lot that is called Carson Street.

Its obvious that SportsFan has been reached by the grand rhetoric of FC/Harrah's. Its funny that the ONLY quotes he/she can post are directly from FC and he/she ignores the questions raised by INDEPENDENT research groups about FC's revenue figures. He also fails to notice that IoC is LEGALLY committed to redeveloping the Hill with Nationwide Realty if they receive the slots license.

Also, if he is graduating from college then I am ripping my degree in half because it shouldn't be worth anything. The future career he alluded to will need to require zero dependency on articulate writing skills.
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