Choice of stay home D-man?

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Choice of stay home D-man?

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:33 pm

If you guys were GM of Pens who would you sign?
REDDEN, MITCHELL, CHARA, JOVANOVSKI...... CHOOSE ONLY ONE!?
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:36 pm

Redden. Cheaper than what Zdeno will command on the open market, but still gets the job done.
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Re: Choice of stay home D-man?

Postby NIN on Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:14 pm

Pens4Life wrote:If you guys were GM of Pens who would you sign?
REDDEN, MITCHELL, CHARA, JOVANOVSKI...... CHOOSE ONLY ONE!?


Only one of those could be considered a stay at home defenseman, so I would go with Mitchell.
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Postby wondermoose on Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:56 pm

Both Chara and Redden can do it all. Chara is extra special because he's like Andre the Giant on ice.
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Postby NJ5934 on Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:29 pm

Chara, no doubt ....... ask Cairns why.

Chara can do it all. Only problem is why in the hell would he want to play in Pittsburgh? After this past season, Therrien, and now Mario gone, the Pens are going to be a tough sell for UFA's.
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Postby NIN on Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:45 pm

NJ5934 wrote:Chara, no doubt ....... ask Cairns why.

Chara can do it all. Only problem is why in the hell would he want to play in Pittsburgh? After this past season, Therrien, and now Mario gone, the Pens are going to be a tough sell for UFA's.


Please, you act like Chara actually won that fight? If you asked Cairns he would laugh at the fact that Chara broke his hand off of his face, did'nt even stun him, could'nt knock Cairns off balance while he got his jersey back on and fended him off with one arm, and then proceeded to beat him like a *****.

Chara also dove to draw a call against Crosby. I think it's awesome that a player that big has the guile to draw penalties but I know how some posters get their delicate sensibilities all upset over players that dive.

Chara would be a welcome addition to the team but he isn't without his flaws. He moves the puck with average skill. He is by no means Nicklos Lidstrom or even Redden when it comes to moving the play up ice. Sure he takes faceoffs when he is facing an embarrassment like Pittsburgh but he still sucks at them. While he is next to impossible to beat one on one he is merely average at recovering when caught out of position.

Would you throw another 4.0-6.0 MILLION per. year for another defenseman and like you said why on earth would he want to play here?

Trust me dude, Joe Corvo isnt as good but his assets will look remarkable on our team and he could be lured here for under 3.5/year. He has a decent NHL frame and is a righty shot. He moves the puck better than Chara but he would'nt be nearly as good on the PK. We already have LeClair and Malone to work the front of the net on the power play and Whitney and Gonchar on the points. As far as carrying the puck up ice (the most critical element when you look at adding another blueline to this team) Corvo is slightly better.
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Postby Stoosh on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:36 am

P4L,

If I can only choose one of those four, I'm going with Mitchell. Of anyone on that list, he'll easily provide the best value for their dollar, and that's what I believe the Pens should be trying to do this summer.

I would love to see Chara here, but I just can't justify dropping another $6-7 million a year on another defenseman like that when we're still at least another season away from playoff contention. I've said this before...guys like Chara and Redden are the players you get when you're trying to go from playoff contender to Cup contender. We're not even playoff contenders right now.
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Postby Reilly on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:38 am

Jovanovski is the most overrated player in the league. The man has done NOTHING to even be considered an elite defenseman let alont a #1.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:58 am

Stoosh wrote:P4L,

If I can only choose one of those four, I'm going with Mitchell. Of anyone on that list, he'll easily provide the best value for their dollar, and that's what I believe the Pens should be trying to do this summer.

I would love to see Chara here, but I just can't justify dropping another $6-7 million a year on another defenseman like that when we're still at least another season away from playoff contention. I've said this before...guys like Chara and Redden are the players you get when you're trying to go from playoff contender to Cup contender. We're not even playoff contenders right now.


That is pretty much what I was thinking Stoosh. You are a wise man indeed. :wink:
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Postby mikey287 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:27 am

Chara would be my choice, he can do it all...he'll forecheck and rag time with his body on a 2 man disadvantage. He's a great all around defenseman...

Redden, who I've watched over the years, is a solid defenseman, but I believe he is a product of his environment...he's not all that special to me, he could be an Adrian Aucoin-esque disappointment in free agency this summer. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong, but I really don't see the a top 10 NHL defenseman in him like a lot of people see.

Mitchell might be a good value, but sometimes he's out of position and he'll take himself right out of play looking for a big hit...I'd rather mold Brooksy into an out of position big hitter than bring in Willie Mitchell I think.

Jovanovski, as it was said before, is one of the most overrated defenseman and players in the league. He's not all that great, that's all...

I'm an Ossi Vaananen fan me-self, and although untouchable, Rostislav Klesla. Mike Komisarek and Carlo Colaiacovo (not as stay at home) would be good pickups too.
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Postby NJ5934 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:45 am

NIN wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:Chara, no doubt ....... ask Cairns why.

Chara can do it all. Only problem is why in the hell would he want to play in Pittsburgh? After this past season, Therrien, and now Mario gone, the Pens are going to be a tough sell for UFA's.


Please, you act like Chara actually won that fight? If you asked Cairns he would laugh at the fact that Chara broke his hand off of his face, did'nt even stun him, could'nt knock Cairns off balance while he got his jersey back on and fended him off with one arm, and then proceeded to beat him like a *****.

Chara also dove to draw a call against Crosby. I think it's awesome that a player that big has the guile to draw penalties but I know how some posters get their delicate sensibilities all upset over players that dive.

Chara would be a welcome addition to the team but he isn't without his flaws. He moves the puck with average skill. He is by no means Nicklos Lidstrom or even Redden when it comes to moving the play up ice. Sure he takes faceoffs when he is facing an embarrassment like Pittsburgh but he still sucks at them. While he is next to impossible to beat one on one he is merely average at recovering when caught out of position.

Would you throw another 4.0-6.0 MILLION per. year for another defenseman and like you said why on earth would he want to play here?

Trust me dude, Joe Corvo isnt as good but his assets will look remarkable on our team and he could be lured here for under 3.5/year. He has a decent NHL frame and is a righty shot. He moves the puck better than Chara but he would'nt be nearly as good on the PK. We already have LeClair and Malone to work the front of the net on the power play and Whitney and Gonchar on the points. As far as carrying the puck up ice (the most critical element when you look at adding another blueline to this team) Corvo is slightly better.


Not saying he won the fight at all. Just saying that he stood his ground against one of the legit 'heavyweights' in the league. You don't get that from Redden, Jovo and Co.

And I'm not saying Redden isn't an elite blueliner (because he is), I'm just saying Chara's game has a completly different level to it. He can be as nasty as anyone and play as physical as anyone and still be able to QB the PP. He's a beast. I'd be just as happy getting Redden or as you mentioned Corvo, but if I had a choice........there is no choice, Chara is a monster and can do it all.
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Postby NJ5934 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:52 am

Stoosh wrote:P4L,

If I can only choose one of those four, I'm going with Mitchell. Of anyone on that list, he'll easily provide the best value for their dollar, and that's what I believe the Pens should be trying to do this summer.

I would love to see Chara here, but I just can't justify dropping another $6-7 million a year on another defenseman like that when we're still at least another season away from playoff contention. I've said this before...guys like Chara and Redden are the players you get when you're trying to go from playoff contender to Cup contender. We're not even playoff contenders right now.


I agree Stoosh but, you add Chara to the blueline next year along with Whitney, Welch, Orpik, and Gonchar...... and we have a playoff contending blueline in front of MAF.

You throw in Malkin, find a home for Christensen on one of the top lines and bring in replacement for Palffy, this could be a completely different team next season.
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Postby Stoosh on Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:41 am

I agree Stoosh but, you add Chara to the blueline next year along with Whitney, Welch, Orpik, and Gonchar...... and we have a playoff contending blueline in front of MAF.

You throw in Malkin, find a home for Christensen on one of the top lines and bring in replacement for Palffy, this could be a completely different team next season.


Good points, but what about the money this is going to cost?

Chara will AT LEAST command Scott Neidermeyer money this summer (something just shy of $7 million a year). Practically every team in the league - including his own team - is going to be calling with interest, so it's got to be an attractive offer to him. For the sake of argument, let's say he gets $7 million a year from the Pens and he takes it.

If the time comes to address Malkin and the Russian federation still hasn't signed the transfer agreement, there's a chance the Pens may have to fork over a significant amount of money to Magnitogorsk to buy out Malkin's deal. How much? I'm not sure because this is unprecedented as far as I know. But what if we're talking $2 million? What if we're talking more than that? And don't forget,...you're still going to have to Malkin close to $1M himself, too.

Finally, a solid replacement for Palffy could cost in the neighborhood of $3-4 million a year.

Between Chara and the replacement for Palffy, this club could invest in the neighborhood of $10-11 million. Factor that in with the club still being on the hook to Gonchar for roughly another $5 million, and they've got $15-16 million tied up in three players. And that's before Malkin and before they sign any of their own free agents.

On paper, it would probably make the team better, but maybe I just see too many other holes that need to be addressed as well. I just think they'd be better off taking that some money that they'd spend on Chara and spreading it over two guys instead of one.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:05 am

NJ5934 wrote:Not saying he won the fight at all. Just saying that he stood his ground against one of the legit 'heavyweights' in the league. You don't get that from Redden, Jovo and Co.

And I'm not saying Redden isn't an elite blueliner (because he is), I'm just saying Chara's game has a completly different level to it. He can be as nasty as anyone and play as physical as anyone and still be able to QB the PP. He's a beast. I'd be just as happy getting Redden or as you mentioned Corvo, but if I had a choice........there is no choice, Chara is a monster and can do it all.


He really is a beast of the blueline. He did stand in there with a heavy weight and hold his own which is more than I can say about the supposedly BIG defensemen in the league, who dont play big.

Chara is the best all around defensmen that will be available but I dont have my hopes set high and I am trying to point out a few things that will keep some posters from even pretending he will ever wear a Pens jersey because he wont. He isnt perfect.

The Penguins WILL draft Eric Johnson, I 100% gaurentee it. All the moves they made at the deadline bolsterd their group of forwards and only took away from the defenseive troups. If say for example Columbus wins the 1st pick they will pick a play maker for Nash and wont even consider Johnson. The Pens know this but they also know that if they pick 3rd they will lose Johnson. It's the basement or bust baby!
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Postby tluke53 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:21 pm

NIN: The deadline moves made by the pens should have no barring on who is drafted. Johnson, if drafted, will spend time in the minors before he plays. The moves you describe assume that he would play next season.

Stoosh: I am pretty sure the Pens cannot lure Malkin without the transfer agreement. I think it would be against NHL policy. I don't think Malkin will be here unless an agreement is signed.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:28 pm

tluke53 wrote:NIN: The deadline moves made by the pens should have no barring on who is drafted. Johnson, if drafted, will spend time in the minors before he plays. The moves you describe assume that he would play next season.

Stoosh: I am pretty sure the Pens cannot lure Malkin without the transfer agreement. I think it would be against NHL policy. I don't think Malkin will be here unless an agreement is signed.


I disagree with your assessment of what I typed...wha??

The moves they made don't even gaurentee that they improved their forwards NOW let alone next season or the season after that. All I was saying is that they did'nt see a need to add more bodies to the blueline. In fact thay traded their only righty shot D-man away. I don't know what that tells you, but to me it suggests that they will address the most glaring weakness on the team in the draft...defensemen...and especially righty shots...Johnson is both and a damn fine one by most accounts.

I will wager money on it that if the Pens finish last overall they will claim Johnson with either the 1st or 2nd pick, depending on "the world of balls".
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Postby tluke53 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:35 pm

There are so many 'ifs". "if" they finish last, "if" they get the draft pick. My contention is that it would be foolish for the Pens to make such assumptions dictate thier personell moves. Of course, recent history does not make the idea so outlandish.


Wow, my response sounds like a certain post-gazette writer. :wink:
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:43 pm

tluke53 wrote:There are so many 'ifs". "if" they finish last, "if" they get the draft pick. My contention is that it would be foolish for the Pens to make such assumptions dictate thier personell moves. Of course, recent history does not make the idea so outlandish.


Wow, my response sounds like a certain post-gazette writer. :wink:


I think your right, but the odds do favor the Penguins picking 1st or 2nd. It seems pretty obvious to me that 11 or 12 of the 14 non-playoff teams need a play making center in their system more than they need a defender. The Pens have Crosby and perhaps Malkin so they need to look at addressing other needs.

The thing is, the worst case scenerio would mean they draft Kessel. That kid could be traded for the likes of Seabrooke or Crosbys buddy Jake Jonson without much trouble.

Say what you want about the ifs but the fact remains that a #1 defenseman is what this team lacked most before the deadline and it is even more of a need because of the moves they made.

$20 bucks. I'll wager $20!!
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Postby tluke53 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:02 pm

Say what you want about the ifs but the fact remains that a #1 defenseman is what this team lacked most before the deadline and it is even more of a need because of the moves they made.


I don't neccessarily agree with that. This team needs a goal scoring winger as much as a d-man. Hopefully, we can fill one of the needs.
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Postby Pens4Life on Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:47 pm

No,dont choose between those four.... All-round UFA D-man,who would you have!? Thats what i meant.
Chara is too expensive... We probably can afford 3-3,5 milion $ d-man,or two solid 1,5 mil.$!!!!
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Postby mikey287 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:36 pm

"The thing is, the worst case scenerio would mean they draft Kessel. That kid could be traded for the likes of Seabrooke or Crosbys buddy Jake Jonson [I assume that's Jack Johnson] without much trouble. "

Nah, that might work in NHL video games and stuff like that, but in real life, the Penguins aren't gonna draft a player 1st overall, sign him, trade him to the Avs and expect them to give up J.M. Liles, or to Chicago for Brent Seabrook. These teams are trying to get back in it right now (or in Colorado's case, trying to stay in "it") So they aren't going to take vital piece of their rebuilding process and push it back for a few years until Johnson or whoever is ready to play in the NHL. I have not seen too many instances, if any, of this in hockey. From what I understand (and his name gets kicked around at the deadline here too) J.M. Liles is absolutely untouchable, and Brent Seabrook is virtually untouchable, Duncan Keith too. And trading Jack Johnson before he can even step foot in a pro league (he just rejected a pro contract correct?) is crazy...so either trade the pick , or take the player, but don't play around it won't work...
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:45 pm

mikey287 wrote:"The thing is, the worst case scenerio would mean they draft Kessel. That kid could be traded for the likes of Seabrooke or Crosbys buddy Jake Jonson [I assume that's Jack Johnson] without much trouble. "

Nah, that might work in NHL video games and stuff like that, but in real life, the Penguins aren't gonna draft a player 1st overall, sign him, trade him to the Avs and expect them to give up J.M. Liles, or to Chicago for Brent Seabrook. These teams are trying to get back in it right now (or in Colorado's case, trying to stay in "it") So they aren't going to take vital piece of their rebuilding process and push it back for a few years until Johnson or whoever is ready to play in the NHL. I have not seen too many instances, if any, of this in hockey. From what I understand (and his name gets kicked around at the deadline here too) J.M. Liles is absolutely untouchable, and Brent Seabrook is virtually untouchable, Duncan Keith too. And trading Jack Johnson before he can even step foot in a pro league (he just rejected a pro contract correct?) is crazy...so either trade the pick , or take the player, but don't play around it won't work...


Right, trade the pick, thats what I said isnt it? :P
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Postby netwolf on Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:46 pm

NIN wrote:The thing is, the worst case scenerio would mean they draft Kessel. That kid could be traded for the likes of Seabrooke or Crosbys buddy Jake Jonson without much trouble.

Say what you want about the ifs but the fact remains that a #1 defenseman is what this team lacked most before the deadline and it is even more of a need because of the moves they made.

$20 bucks. I'll wager $20!!


And why exactly would these other teams want to make that move? The Canes were going hard after Johnson to get him out of college early because they wanted him in their lineup for the playoffs. I would imagine Seabrook is just as untouchable in Chicago.

I agree with the need for a #1 d-man, but Erik Johnson isn't that, at least not for a few seasons anyhow. The roster moves they made don't make any difference in that regard. The only defenseman they moved was Jackman.
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Postby FlyerNation on Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:06 pm

Reilly wrote:Jovanovski is the most overrated player in the league. The man has done NOTHING to even be considered an elite defenseman let alont a #1.
I agree completely. Ohlund has been their best defenseman going on 3 years straight. I don't get the love with Jovanowski neither, never have.

As for Chara on Satellite hotstove the other night, they said he might be asking for about 7 a year. I'd love to have him but that's ridiculous.
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Postby pmh118 on Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:45 pm

wondermoose wrote:Chara is extra special because he's like Andre the Giant on ice.


Only without the drinking problem. :lol:
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