Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

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Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:02 am

Basically, he says it was the lack of a system that caused his early-season woes.

"The biggest adjustment was the system. In the beginning of the season I had a lot of freedom. Obviously, you need the forwards to play this way because they can create a lot of things, but for offensive defensemen, you have to find a hole to jump in and you have to be able to predict what's going on to create something. That was kind of tough for me at the beginning of the year because every time, it seems, I was going up [to join the offense], it ended up in our end, so I felt uncomfortable.

"Probably if we had continued playing that way, I would have figured it out, but we had a coaching change [in December] and the new coach uses something similar to what we used in Washington system-wise. It's kind of easier to read and find the holes."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/06092/678861.stm
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Postby Zscout on Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:40 am

Was it Edzo or Lemieux?
Edzo had a solid system last year. It was the same system they were deploying in WBS. It had a team of journeyman and young players playing very competitive down the stretch.
This season it was thrown aside to meet the needs of the additions of Lemieux, Palffy, Leclair, Recchi and Crosby. It was also expected that the wide open style was the way of the new NHL and the Penguins thought they had made the off season changes to take advantage of it. It was frequently talked about going into camp and Edzo was left hanging out to dry.
We all know Lemieux did not like to play in a restrictive system and as owner, he had more say than Edzo on how the team would play.
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Postby kovyman1127 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:41 am

Does this surprise anyone? As much flack as I'm going to take...I think Edzo and Mario leaving this year has helped the team more than anyone will ever realize.

I love what Mario has done for this team....but Nepotism got carried away with this team....and the team suffered because of that.
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Re: Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby DelPen on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:29 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:Basically, he says it was the lack of a system that caused his early-season woes.

"The biggest adjustment was the system. In the beginning of the season I had a lot of freedom. Obviously, you need the forwards to play this way because they can create a lot of things, but for offensive defensemen, you have to find a hole to jump in and you have to be able to predict what's going on to create something. That was kind of tough for me at the beginning of the year because every time, it seems, I was going up [to join the offense], it ended up in our end, so I felt uncomfortable.

"Probably if we had continued playing that way, I would have figured it out, but we had a coaching change [in December] and the new coach uses something similar to what we used in Washington system-wise. It's kind of easier to read and find the holes."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/06092/678861.stm


Gonchar needed a strong system and a partner very good in hos own end to be effective. He had neither in October. Then he injures his groin, probably came back too early and hasn't been able to skate with a full stride the rest of the year.

We all knew what we were getting with Gonchar. Anyone who rips his defense doesn't know anything about Gonchar's game. But when the guy isn't getting points we have a problem.
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Postby Jim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:32 pm

I do not see how anything he said could be labeled as throwing anyone under the bus...

When I saw this article this morning I was expecting a bunch of "Gonchar makes excuses for his suckiness" posts...
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:39 pm

Zscout wrote:Was it Edzo or Lemieux?


The ONLY reason Edzo was even an NHL head coach is because he is a FOM. Keep that in mind when you try to blame Lemieux for Edzo's failure. No other NHL organIzation would have hired a guy with no coaching experience at any level that also happened to be a Charmin soft floater as a player.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:51 pm

All I know is that if Gonchar has a couple more multi point games he could finish as high as 7th in scoring among defensmen. That aint 5.5 million worth of offense but it aint 2.5 either.
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Postby Ben Klingston on Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:43 pm

Jim wrote:I do not see how anything he said could be labeled as throwing anyone under the bus...

When I saw this article this morning I was expecting a bunch of "Gonchar makes excuses for his suckiness" posts...


Patience, young grasshopper. :wink:
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Postby pfim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:59 pm

Jim wrote:I do not see how anything he said could be labeled as throwing anyone under the bus...

When I saw this article this morning I was expecting a bunch of "Gonchar makes excuses for his suckiness" posts...


I agree. And I'll add that he needs to stop making excuses for his suckiness. :lol:
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:07 pm

NIN wrote:All I know is that if Gonchar has a couple more multi point games he could finish as high as 7th in scoring among defensmen. That aint 5.5 million worth of offense but it aint 2.5 either.


Nothing like a guy hitting his stride after 65% of the season is over and his team is out of playoff contention.

Gonchar is 10th in scoring but makes more money than all but 3 players ahead of him and also has a contract longer in term than any of them. Considering he can't play defense he is grossly overpaid. I don't begrudge the $$$ athletes make, but as a Pens fan it is important considering their finite budget for player salaries. They could have used his $3.5M salary and $5M Cap space for a competent defenseman or two. When his salary moves up as high as $6.5M and his production declines even more as he ages this signing will look much worse.

Next year when the season starts we will hear the same excuses. He is a slow starter, he has a nagging injury, his defense partner doesn't cover for him.... This signing is a huge mistake any way it is analyzed.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:22 pm

Draftnik wrote:
NIN wrote:All I know is that if Gonchar has a couple more multi point games he could finish as high as 7th in scoring among defensmen. That aint 5.5 million worth of offense but it aint 2.5 either.


Nothing like a guy hitting his stride after 65% of the season is over and his team is out of playoff contention.

Gonchar is 10th in scoring but makes more money than all but 3 players ahead of him and also has a contract longer in term than any of them. Considering he can't play defense he is grossly overpaid. I don't begrudge the $$$ athletes make, but as a Pens fan it is important considering their finite budget for player salaries. They could have used his $3.5M salary and $5M Cap space for a competent defenseman or two. When his salary moves up as high as $6.5M and his production declines even more as he ages this signing will look much worse.

Next year when the season starts we will hear the same excuses. He is a slow starter, he has a nagging injury, his defense partner doesn't cover for him.... This signing is a huge mistake any way it is analyzed.


Edzo was coach for about 50% of the season so some of Gonchars comments are justified. He was left to defend forwards one on one and at top speed WAYY too often. Therrians system has slowed the game down so that Gonchar doesnt appear to suck as much as he does.

Long story short, he was over0hyped and slightly overpaid. 4 million would have been very acceptable to me but 5.5 isnt outrageous for a guy who was at the top of the league for 6 seasons and is comming to a bad team that relies heavily on the power play.

Having said that, there is no defense for Gonchars bad defense and perhaps more importantly: his lack of heart. One thing is for sure, the Capitals NEVER played a system as bad as Edzos.
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Postby DrBoni on Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:28 pm

Gonchar being anywhere near the top ten in scoring after the start he had is a feat of its own. He's had a strong second half and that cannot be overlooked. It's no coincidence at all that his better play has been with Therrien. It's no knock on Edzo, but Gonchar needed the structure. I think that in the long run this signing will pay off. I don't know about five years, but I'm excited about him being here for the next couple anyway.

That said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OkqFdcC ... rch=straka

We need to find another way to bring the puck up the ice.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:44 pm

DrBoni wrote:Gonchar being anywhere near the top ten in scoring after the start he had is a feat of its own. He's had a strong second half and that cannot be overlooked. It's no coincidence at all that his better play has been with Therrien. It's no knock on Edzo, but Gonchar needed the structure. I think that in the long run this signing will pay off. I don't know about five years, but I'm excited about him being here for the next couple anyway.

That said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OkqFdcC ... rch=straka

We need to find another way to bring the puck up the ice.


Dude thanks for the memories! That was the last win I got to enjoy. :D
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Postby Ginger on Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:10 pm

DrBoni wrote:Gonchar being anywhere near the top ten in scoring after the start he had is a feat of its own. He's had a strong second half and that cannot be overlooked. It's no coincidence at all that his better play has been with Therrien. It's no knock on Edzo, but Gonchar needed the structure. I think that in the long run this signing will pay off. I don't know about five years, but I'm excited about him being here for the next couple anyway.

That said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OkqFdcC ... rch=straka

We need to find another way to bring the puck up the ice.


I've been behind him all along & knew that it wasn't so much something wrong with him as it was the system he was trying to operate in. You can go back & look at any of my posts this season & you'll see that I said it was in part, the system, that he had lost all confidence (no help from the fans that booed him continually there) & he wasn't EVER matched with the right linemate until Orpik. That was beginning to work for both him AND Orpik but by then the season was winding down. He had Witt in Washington & that was exactly the ype of player he neds.

Fans never seem to learn either, that if you want a player to play better, then shut up & let them regain some of their game. Being booed every time they hit the ice isn't going to do anything but shoot the team in the foot.

zscout wrote-

Was it Edzo or Lemieux?
Edzo had a solid system last year. It was the same system they were deploying in WBS. It had a team of journeyman and young players playing very competitive down the stretch.
This season it was thrown aside to meet the needs of the additions of Lemieux, Palffy, Leclair, Recchi and Crosby. It was also expected that the wide open style was the way of the new NHL and the Penguins thought they had made the off season changes to take advantage of it. It was frequently talked about going into camp and Edzo was left hanging out to dry.
We all know Lemieux did not like to play in a restrictive system and as owner, he had more say than Edzo on how the team would play.


I'm sure it's some of each. Edzo was in over his head being coach of an NHL team that quickly with little to no experience. He could have (should have) said to Mario that "Look you hired me to do a job, now if you want me to do it well, then let me do it." If he'd been experienced enough in the ways of the NHL, he would have done that.
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Re: Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby HomerPenguin on Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:44 pm

Hey, I've got an idea. How about if somebody throws Gonchar under a bus? I mean a real one, not a verbal one.
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Postby Kicksave on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:07 pm

Zscout wrote:Was it Edzo or Lemieux?
Edzo had a solid system last year. It was the same system they were deploying in WBS. It had a team of journeyman and young players playing very competitive down the stretch.
This season it was thrown aside to meet the needs of the additions of Lemieux, Palffy, Leclair, Recchi and Crosby. It was also expected that the wide open style was the way of the new NHL and the Penguins thought they had made the off season changes to take advantage of it. It was frequently talked about going into camp and Edzo was left hanging out to dry.
We all know Lemieux did not like to play in a restrictive system and as owner, he had more say than Edzo on how the team would play.


It was Lemieux's fault that Edzo was hired. It was Edzo's fault that he completly sucked as a head coach. Sure, he was able to coach a team, 3/4 of which were no-talent scrubs, but when he got a little bit of talent, he wasn't able to adjust. He doesn't have the balls to coach in the NHL.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:03 pm

Is it the "systems" fault that Gonchar went from October to March 31 without scoring a PP goal?

He will be 32 when next season starts. The odds are he will get worse. not better as time passes.
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Postby Ginger on Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:30 pm

Draftnik wrote:Is it the "systems" fault that Gonchar went from October to March 31 without scoring a PP goal?

He will be 32 when next season starts. The odds are he will get worse. not better as time passes.


Hey, odds mean diddley! I beat the odds & others do it all the time. Come to Vegas baby!

Do you honestly think Gonchar had the best atmosphere here to be on top of his game? He mentioned very early in the year that he was finding it tough, after virtually spending most of his career with one team. He wasn't using it as an excuse as much as it was an apology to the fans when he said it. He wished as much as anyone that things were different with the way things were going.

This team as a whole didn't give any of the players a chance to shine, not even Crosby. What was the reason, or reasons? Where do you want to start? Old vs young, poor coaching up & down the line, constant shuffling of lines, constant worrying about where you're gonna be in a month, or if there'll even be a team to play with; two different coaches, an ill captain/owner...do you really think this stuff didn't cross their minds a few times? Making good money doesn't erase those thoughts.

...or maybe I'm just too charitable, who knows?
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Re: Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby Jim on Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:17 am

HomerPenguin wrote:Hey, I've got an idea. How about if somebody throws Gonchar under a bus? I mean a real one, not a verbal one.


That was worth reading...
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Re: Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:13 am

Mad City Mike wrote:Basically, he says it was the lack of a system that caused his early-season woes.

"The biggest adjustment was the system. In the beginning of the season I had a lot of freedom. Obviously, you need the forwards to play this way because they can create a lot of things, but for offensive defensemen, you have to find a hole to jump in and you have to be able to predict what's going on to create something. That was kind of tough for me at the beginning of the year because every time, it seems, I was going up [to join the offense], it ended up in our end, so I felt uncomfortable.

"Probably if we had continued playing that way, I would have figured it out, but we had a coaching change [in December] and the new coach uses something similar to what we used in Washington system-wise. It's kind of easier to read and find the holes."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/06092/678861.stm


do we know if Craig Patrick wanted Sergei or Mario? Either one has
seen Sergei enough to know his success in DC was being part of
a defensive system certainly much better than the pens since the
pens never have any defensive system till M Therrien.

Yesterday Sergei took the high risk on the play and it just didn't
work out. He'll always be a person to trigger an OT winner, good or bad.
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Re: Gonchar Throws Edzo Under the Bus

Postby HomerPenguin on Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:40 am

Jim wrote:
HomerPenguin wrote:Hey, I've got an idea. How about if somebody throws Gonchar under a bus? I mean a real one, not a verbal one.


That was worth reading...


Rest assured that when science finds a way for me to give you back 0.8 seconds of your life, I will be on that like white on rice.
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