Penguins vs. Debs... 1/2/06.... semi official thread

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Postby HomerPenguin on Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:50 pm

dagny wrote:
jmh70 wrote:I'm not sure whether to blame Gonchar for his atrocious play on the tying goal or MT for putting Gonchar out there with 30 seconds left. Shockingly bad decisions all around. Maybe they really are tanking.


Try blaming the incredibly stupid, ill-advised, badly-timed, careless, lazy, unnecessary, last-minute penalty when the game was almost won!

I don't care who commited it. He should be tarred and feathered, then forced to dance around the igloo on his skates! Like a real penguin.... :evil:

Aaahhh... I feel better now. Sometimes ya just gotta get it out. :D

Too bad we couldn't have gotten one of those empty netters........ :roll: :wink: :lol:


Ditto :D :) :( :o :shock: :? 8) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow:
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Postby netwolf on Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:Once again today, the Pens are done in by incompetent officiating. The way this league is, you just know there will be a grossly wrong call or two favoing a good team in a close game. Today, it was Melichar's penalty on Elias. I defy anyone to watch the replay of that and tell me that Melichar touched him before he went flying through the air on a perfect 10 dive. How that was called a hook and not a dive simply defies belief. You cannot win when you are forced to play 5 on 7 the last few minutes like that. The refs in this league are the most incmpetent of those in any sport. It's not even close. Once a garage league, always a garage league.


MCM, I really hate it when you force me to absolve these goobers. :lol:

That trip was most assuredly a dive and it was painfully obvious to everyone except whichever ref made the call. However, they let Melichar off with a hit from behind moments before. He should have been in the box anyway.

They had a chance to clear the zone in between the missed call and the bad one, plus they had 2 or 3 shots at an empty netter. Rita missed an empty net early, Hilbert failed to score on a couple of his chances. On top of that, the Devils could have easily had two more.

They had their chances to win this game and the Devils were better, especially the second half of the game.
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Postby dagny on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:06 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:Once again today, the Pens are done in by incompetent officiating. The way this league is, you just know there will be a grossly wrong call or two favoing a good team in a close game. Today, it was Melichar's penalty on Elias. I defy anyone to watch the replay of that and tell me that Melichar touched him before he went flying through the air on a perfect 10 dive. How that was called a hook and not a dive simply defies belief. You cannot win when you are forced to play 5 on 7 the last few minutes like that. The refs in this league are the most incmpetent of those in any sport. It's not even close. Once a garage league, always a garage league.


I'm not real big on blaming the officiating. Personal responsibility dictates that a good team will rise above the obstacles and still find a way to get it done.

Having said that, I'm unable to rise to your challenge, as I have no means of rewatching it now.

I can tell you that penalty was called in my house, as it was occuring, before the officials called it.

Melichar got beat one too many times and he let it get the best of him. Elias was doing everything to maintain puck position and get a clear path.

Dive or not, that is a chance you DO NOT take, in your own end, at that point in the game, when up by one goal. You do everything in your power to AVOID handicapping your team with a couple minutes left in the game!

His embellishment is arguable, however it does not negate the fact that if Melichar had moved his legs and jockeyed for BODY position, we probably wouldn't be having this debate right now.

Having said alllll that.... I could be totally wrong, but that's how we saw it here. :D
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Postby pfim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:09 pm

That trip was most assuredly a dive and it was painfully obvious to everyone except whichever ref made the call. However, they let Melichar off with a hit from behind moments before. He should have been in the box anyway.


I wouldn't blame the loss on the call either, simply because the puck should have been out of the zone at that point. Still, any ref who makes a "makeup" call is gutless. Their job isn't to make the game fair, but to call penalties when they see them. If they miss one, they're not allowed to make one up to even it out.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:09 pm

Stoosh wrote:
The fact that they let this kid rot in the AHL for about 1 1/2 years too many is another nail in Patricks coffin.


I actually can't fault CP for this too much, NIN. Take a look at the players drafted within five spots either way of Armstrong. and almost all of them are just seeing their first regular NHL duty this year.

I think there were some legitimate concerns about Armstrong's game translating to the NHL level, whether they were about his speed, skills or his physical makeup (concerns about him being too skinny). I'll admit...from everything I heard about him prior to seeing him up here, I'm really impressed. He might be one of those players whose game is just tailor-made for this level, so he'll outperform expectations. The kid shows mroe skill and offensive awareness than I ever expected to see out of him.


I can understand the concern about him fitting in at the nHL level but you never know until you try. He IS too skinny and he IS STILL too slow. Hell even his hands arent very fast! He has reach, heart , but most of all the hockey sense of a grizzled 10 year veteran. Those smarts have more than compensated for his lack of break away speed (compared to Oullette he is Paul COffey) and over powering physique. I don't see any reason why he could'nt have played this exact same way 4 years ago in the NHL. Maybe they do send him back down but c'mon, we KNOW what RIco Fata is going to do, let someone else get a chance. Geezz luieeez Patrick.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:10 pm

netwolf wrote:
MCM, I really hate it when you force me to absolve these goobers. :lol:

That trip was most assuredly a dive and it was painfully obvious to everyone except whichever ref made the call. However, they let Melichar off with a hit from behind moments before. He should have been in the box anyway.

They had a chance to clear the zone in between the missed call and the bad one, plus they had 2 or 3 shots at an empty netter. Rita missed an empty net early, Hilbert failed to score on a couple of his chances. On top of that, the Devils could have easily had two more.

They had their chances to win this game and the Devils were better, especially the second half of the game.


I will say the Pens did not deserve to win today. They basically played 20 minutes of hockey. They seemed satisfied to be ahead 2-0 after 1 and quit playing. Give credit to the Lamoriellos (he is the devil after all) for cranking it up a notch, but the Pens failed to match that. They generated maybe one or two good chances after the first period.

The empty nets they missed were from long range, except maybe one by Hilbert where the camera coverage was at its usual pathetic level and you couldn'tt se where the shot came from. So I can't blame this.

But you are right, the horrendous attempts to clear right before the penalty and then right before the equalizer are to blame. But blame the idiot GM for a lot of that because they have no RH defensemen to get the job done.

But the fact is, Elias dove, and for a ref to make that call in that situation is either bias toward a good team or gross incompetence. Considering the same clown missed the penalty seconds earlier (also very well-embellished, btw) and these same guys blew the whistle for that delayed call for no reason, I guess I will go with gross incompetence. Nithr of these guys has any business calling NHL games.
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Postby pfim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:12 pm

NIN wrote:
Stoosh wrote:
The fact that they let this kid rot in the AHL for about 1 1/2 years too many is another nail in Patricks coffin.


I actually can't fault CP for this too much, NIN. Take a look at the players drafted within five spots either way of Armstrong. and almost all of them are just seeing their first regular NHL duty this year.

I think there were some legitimate concerns about Armstrong's game translating to the NHL level, whether they were about his speed, skills or his physical makeup (concerns about him being too skinny). I'll admit...from everything I heard about him prior to seeing him up here, I'm really impressed. He might be one of those players whose game is just tailor-made for this level, so he'll outperform expectations. The kid shows mroe skill and offensive awareness than I ever expected to see out of him.


I can understand the concern about him fitting in at the nHL level but you never know until you try. He IS too skinny and he IS STILL too slow. Hell even his hands arent very fast! He has reach, heart , but most of all the hockey sense of a grizzled 10 year veteran. Those smarts have more than compensated for his lack of break away speed (compared to Oullette he is Paul COffey) and over powering physique. I don't see any reason why he could'nt have played this exact same way 4 years ago in the NHL. Maybe they do send him back down but c'mon, we KNOW what RIco Fata is going to do, let someone else get a chance. Geezz luieeez Patrick.


What exactly did he do to merit a callup in 02-03 or 03-04? That sends quite the message, even though you're an underachieving first round pick, you don't have to produce in the AHL.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:12 pm

dagny wrote:
Mad City Mike wrote:Once again today, the Pens are done in by incompetent officiating. The way this league is, you just know there will be a grossly wrong call or two favoing a good team in a close game. Today, it was Melichar's penalty on Elias. I defy anyone to watch the replay of that and tell me that Melichar touched him before he went flying through the air on a perfect 10 dive. How that was called a hook and not a dive simply defies belief. You cannot win when you are forced to play 5 on 7 the last few minutes like that. The refs in this league are the most incmpetent of those in any sport. It's not even close. Once a garage league, always a garage league.


I'm not real big on blaming the officiating. Personal responsibility dictates that a good team will rise above the obstacles and still find a way to get it done.

Having said that, I'm unable to rise to your challenge, as I have no means of rewatching it now.

I can tell you that penalty was called in my house, as it was occuring, before the officials called it.

Melichar got beat one too many times and he let it get the best of him. Elias was doing everything to maintain puck position and get a clear path.

Dive or not, that is a chance you DO NOT take, in your own end, at that point in the game, when up by one goal. You do everything in your power to AVOID handicapping your team with a couple minutes left in the game!

His embellishment is arguable, however it does not negate the fact that if Melichar had moved his legs and jockeyed for BODY position, we probably wouldn't be having this debate right now.

Having said alllll that.... I could be totally wrong, but that's how we saw it here. :D


If Melichar played the body on ELias, he not only doesnt get beat but he doesnt get a chance to dive. Melichar let his conscience ref the game by thinking he should have been called for boarding (it was marginal IMO) just before. Hey thats Melicar, he just isnt mean enough and this time it cost us the game.

I could name 3 other players that didnt help matters but I would like Melicar to speak up with that A on his chest and take some accountibility out there. 8)
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:14 pm

pfim wrote:
NIN wrote:
Stoosh wrote:
The fact that they let this kid rot in the AHL for about 1 1/2 years too many is another nail in Patricks coffin.


I actually can't fault CP for this too much, NIN. Take a look at the players drafted within five spots either way of Armstrong. and almost all of them are just seeing their first regular NHL duty this year.

I think there were some legitimate concerns about Armstrong's game translating to the NHL level, whether they were about his speed, skills or his physical makeup (concerns about him being too skinny). I'll admit...from everything I heard about him prior to seeing him up here, I'm really impressed. He might be one of those players whose game is just tailor-made for this level, so he'll outperform expectations. The kid shows mroe skill and offensive awareness than I ever expected to see out of him.


I can understand the concern about him fitting in at the nHL level but you never know until you try. He IS too skinny and he IS STILL too slow. Hell even his hands arent very fast! He has reach, heart , but most of all the hockey sense of a grizzled 10 year veteran. Those smarts have more than compensated for his lack of break away speed (compared to Oullette he is Paul COffey) and over powering physique. I don't see any reason why he could'nt have played this exact same way 4 years ago in the NHL. Maybe they do send him back down but c'mon, we KNOW what RIco Fata is going to do, let someone else get a chance. Geezz luieeez Patrick.


What exactly did he do to merit a callup in 02-03 or 03-04? That sends quite the message, even though you're an underachieving first round pick, you don't have to produce in the AHL.


Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense... :roll:
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Postby Mad City Mike on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:15 pm

dagny wrote:Melichar got beat one too many times and he let it get the best of him. Elias was doing everything to maintain puck position and get a clear path.



Any resemblence between Joe Melichar and an actual NHL defensman is purely coincidental. The guy was brutal all game long today. He never got the puck out of the zone when he had a chance. They smoked him like a ciragr store indian late in the game.

You'll know the Pens are actually improving when this guy is no longer taking a regular shift. Hopefully, that will be as early as next year.
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Postby pfim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:16 pm

Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.
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Postby dagny on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:21 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
dagny wrote:Melichar got beat one too many times and he let it get the best of him. Elias was doing everything to maintain puck position and get a clear path.



Any resemblence between Joe Melichar and an actual NHL defensman is purely coincidental. The guy was brutal all game long today. He never got the puck out of the zone when he had a chance. They smoked him like a ciragr store indian late in the game.

You'll know the Pens are actually improving when this guy is no longer taking a regular shift. Hopefully, that will be as early as next year.


I completely left out the missed clearing attempts! We were screaming at those before we called Melichar's brain fart. Definitely lead to the poor decision making on Melichar's part. He let his frustration get to him. Hopefully, he LEARNS from this mistake.

Btw, you dig my 'make em skate around like a shamed penguin' punishment? 8) :lol:
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:21 pm

pfim wrote:
Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.


Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...
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Postby pfim on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:25 pm

Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...


When Colby learns how to play center, give me a call.
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Postby borohcky9 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:29 pm

NIN wrote:
pfim wrote:
Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.


Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...


evauate talent? are you serious, hindsight is 20/20...no one in the organization let alone the NHL (he was on waivers) saw talent enough in this kid to warrant a call-up any sooner than it happened.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:43 pm

:D DUDES!! Listen to me. If Therrian wasnt the coach Armstrong WOULD STILL be in the AHL wasteing away! WHy? Because he didnt gain the weight and look good on paper like Patrick wanted him too. Patrick is about as personable as my right gonad after some serious chaffing. He doesnt realize that maybe JUST MAYBE for some players...you need to let them get a taste of what it is like at the NHL level so they can better prepare themselves for it.

Look. There was no Crosby in those years so of course he wouldnt be putting up the numbers he is now. All I am saying is that he would be even BETTER today if patrick had showed just alittle faith in his 1st round pick and let him get a shot. Hussey got 2 games. Various other players like Pirjetta got their chance. What does that do to your confidence when a player afraid of contact like Hussey gets called up before you who are breaking your back punishing people with checks. Oh yeah he didnt have as many points, thats all that matters right?

If Armstrong was switched to center tommarrow he would instantly be 10 times better at playing center than Endicott is after what 40 games?

Try and understand that AHL points dont equal NHL talent.
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Postby DelPen on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:47 pm

NIN wrote:
pfim wrote:
Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.


Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...


Why is this an issue? Would Armstrong from game 1 or anytime before that have won this team the Cup or even helped them sniff the playoffs. No. We might be looking at 6-10 points out at best but all that means is we pick 11th or 12th instead of getting a top 5 pick this year.

I'll take the great things Colby has done so afr setting us up well for next year AND either Johnson, Kessel, Toews or Staal.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:49 pm

DelPen wrote:
NIN wrote:
pfim wrote:
Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.


Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...


Why is this an issue? Would Armstrong from game 1 or anytime before that have won this team the Cup or even helped them sniff the playoffs. No. We might be looking at 6-10 points out at best but all that means is we pick 11th or 12th instead of getting a top 5 pick this year.

I'll take the great things Colby has done so afr setting us up well for next year AND either Johnson, Kessel, Toews or Staal.
\

Maybe im just sick and tired of not watching the best players we have available because the money is mismanaged or because they just dont know what the **** they are doing. Maybe im just sick and tired of Patrick **** everything up every season. Maybe some of the players we have now would be alot better if the GM wasnt a total **** dickhole drunk.
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Postby dagny on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:10 pm

NIN wrote: Maybe some of the players we have now would be alot better if the GM wasnt a total **** dickhole drunk.


Is your. . .

middle name: com :?:

last name: poop :?:

:lol: heh heh... get it? :lol:

Man... ya gotta be more careful. I mostly enjoy your posts, and I don't want to see you get banned. Seriously. :idea: :wink: :D
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Postby Defence21 on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:14 pm

NIN wrote:
DelPen wrote:
NIN wrote:
pfim wrote:
Right, why bother shaking things up when your current roster is going to finish bottom 5. Makes sense...


45 points in 140 games. Bring him up! He'll really help. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he got better last year, unless I'm discussing it with you I guess.

Rico Fata outscored him in 03-04 in the NHL when Colby was in the AHL. I'm not dumping on the guy, but he didn't deserve to be in the NHL before this year.


Ok why did they call up Hussey and Endocott? Why the **** is Endocott even given an NHL contract? WHY? Because he has NHL "size"? Give me a break. When you and Patrick learn to evaluate talent give me a call kid...


Why is this an issue? Would Armstrong from game 1 or anytime before that have won this team the Cup or even helped them sniff the playoffs. No. We might be looking at 6-10 points out at best but all that means is we pick 11th or 12th instead of getting a top 5 pick this year.

I'll take the great things Colby has done so afr setting us up well for next year AND either Johnson, Kessel, Toews or Staal.
\

Maybe im just sick and tired of not watching the best players we have available because the money is mismanaged or because they just dont know what the **** they are doing. Maybe im just sick and tired of Patrick **** everything up every season. Maybe some of the players we have now would be alot better if the GM wasnt a total **** dickhole drunk.

Maybe if you used a few more curse words, you'd get your point across better. Three times isn't enough in one paragraph. :roll:

Maybe if you were GM this team would be run perfectly. :roll:

Maybe hindsight is 20/20 and everything you are saying now, you should have said years ago.

Maybe, if you can't stand the way this team is run and the players that are/aren't on it, you should find another team to watch :!:

Seriously, here. Armstrong has played great. No one will dispute that. But he certainly has done nothing to deserve a callup until this season. The team hasn't been run perfectly over the years, but to say that they were stupid for not giving him a chance is ridiculous. Obviously every other team in the NHL didn't think he was worth it either. So every general mananger is stupid -- right? Wrong. Fact is, he has surprised everyone -- and I venture so include even Therrien.
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Postby BurghThing on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:14 pm

Just got home and a couple of observations...why Melichar is wearing an A let alone an NHL sweater is completely beyond me...Gonchar couldn't be a bigger detriment to this team if he skated to center ice and just sat there for his entire shift...and the funniest moment was when the lady whiffed on her Giant Eagle shot and wound up on her ass.
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Postby Ben Klingston on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:19 pm

BurghThing wrote:...and the funniest moment was when the lady whiffed on her Giant Eagle shot and wound up on her ass.


No, that was Andre Roy.

And I wouldn't call him a lady. He might get mad and let you hit him in the face really hard. (to paraphrase Spoon or Stoosh... one of those two pre-season)
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:31 pm

Defence21 wrote:Seriously, here. Armstrong has played great. No one will dispute that. But he certainly has done nothing to deserve a callup until this season. .


OK. This is my last attempt at trying to make my point about this.

DEEP BREATH....

and exhale...


The most important atrbibute a hockey player can have is knowing how to play the game of hockey. Rita may have the most raw potential in the franchise (outside of the obvious) but he doesnt know how to play the game at the same level that the tall skinny slow kid does. Hussey was called up because he is super fast and put up decent numbers in the AHL. Colby was banging poeple and creating room out there in the AHL, back checking, killing penalties, playing smart hockey. Armstong was not brought up because he did'nt produce points.

So yinz tell me who the better player is: the high scoring AHL speedy Hussey or the slower low scoring AHL Armstrong?

If you awnser Hussey than you play too much Sega Playstation.

If you awnser Armstrong than you might know that finding out what players can do at the AHL is vastly different than knowing what that player can do in the NHL.

That was my original post before everybody got me all rielled up with their nonsensical jibber jabber. Armstrong deserved his cup of coffee because of all the hitting, penalty killing, and hard work he displayed in the AHL. Here we are today and I am happy to see he is making the most of the chance THERRIAN (not Patrick) has awarded him. I hope I live to see the day Crosby hands the Stanley Cup to Armstrong while sporting old school colored Pittsburgh Penguins Jerseys in the Comcast Arena.
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Postby NIN on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:35 pm

Yeah Defence21...nobody knew what he could do in the NHL..did they. DO you think that if he played 10 games in 03-04 they would have put him on waivers?
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Postby wondermoose on Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:42 pm

I was sitting in A12, four rows from the ice. Kolstov got annhilated like 10 feet from me. It was freaking hilarious. All the Devils were laughing, I felt bad, cause Koltsy is one of my favorite Pens :(
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