McKenzie: Scouts can't agree on Kessel

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McKenzie: Scouts can't agree on Kessel

Postby Mosby on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:10 pm

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But

Postby Ironhorse on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:42 pm

Remember tht the draft is getting close and misinformation will start to flow as teams position themselves for the draft. Unlike the past two years there really is not a top person--a top 3 yes. However, what they are saying could be true too. It is just that time of the year for these things to start happening.
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Re: But

Postby DelPen on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:46 pm

Ironhorse wrote:Remember tht the draft is getting close and misinformation will start to flow as teams position themselves for the draft. Unlike the past two years there really is not a top person--a top 3 yes. However, what they are saying could be true too. It is just that time of the year for these things to start happening.


But 2003 and 2002 had a clear top 3 but who knew where they would fall. Last year was rare with Crosby being so far ahead of #2 you had to have the top pick. This looks more like 1990 where Nolan, Nedved, Primeau and Ricci went 1-2-3-4. Jagr at #5 was considered a risk.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:48 pm

Maybe it's the 'Sid factor', but it just doesn't seem to me like any of these guys are 'Franchise Players'.
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Postby Reilly on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:55 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Maybe it's the 'Sid factor', but it just doesn't seem to me like any of these guys are 'Franchise Players'.


:roll:
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Postby Tocchet on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:14 pm

This year's stats:

Kessel: 39 games, 18 goals, 33 assists, 51 points, 28 PIMs. Right-handed shot.

Toews: 41 games, 21 goals, 17 assists, 38 points, 22 PIMs. Left-handed shot.

Unless it's clear that Kessel peaked too early and his upside isn't nearly as high as Toews, I have to think that he'll be the #1 choice on the Pens' board. And the fact that he's a righty must play a role since the Pens have a dearth of right-handed shots for top-line play.
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Re: But

Postby Mosby on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:15 pm

DelPen wrote:
Ironhorse wrote:Remember tht the draft is getting close and misinformation will start to flow as teams position themselves for the draft. Unlike the past two years there really is not a top person--a top 3 yes. However, what they are saying could be true too. It is just that time of the year for these things to start happening.


But 2003 and 2002 had a clear top 3 but who knew where they would fall. Last year was rare with Crosby being so far ahead of #2 you had to have the top pick. This looks more like 1990 where Nolan, Nedved, Primeau and Ricci went 1-2-3-4. Jagr at #5 was considered a risk.


Jagr was a risk not based on talent level. He was considered a risk because he was still in Czechoslovakia. NHL scouts were intrigued, but many teams were hesitant to use a high draft pick to select Jagr. Unlike other highly rated standouts from his homeland such as Petr Nedved, Jagr was still in Czechoslovakia. He still had a year remaining on his contract with Kladno, after which he would have to perform two to three years of military service before he would be available to sign with a North American team, assuming that Kladno did not then hold him for a king's ransom.
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Postby Defence21 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:16 pm

Reilly wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Maybe it's the 'Sid factor', but it just doesn't seem to me like any of these guys are 'Franchise Players'.


:roll:

Once again, great insight, Reilly! Why don't you just change your handle to "Rolling Eyes?" Seriously, how about adding some of your ever-wonderful knowledge instead of acting so smart and all-knowing.
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Postby Reilly on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:21 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Reilly wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Maybe it's the 'Sid factor', but it just doesn't seem to me like any of these guys are 'Franchise Players'.


:roll:

Seriously, how about adding some of your ever-wonderful knowledge instead of acting so smart and all-knowing.


Ok

I think your opinion sucks.

Happy now?
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Postby freq019 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:25 pm

Tocchet wrote:This year's stats:

Kessel: 39 games, 18 goals, 33 assists, 51 points, 28 PIMs. Right-handed shot.

Toews: 41 games, 21 goals, 17 assists, 38 points, 22 PIMs. Left-handed shot.

Unless it's clear that Kessel peaked too early and his upside isn't nearly as high as Toews, I have to think that he'll be the #1 choice on the Pens' board. And the fact that he's a righty must play a role since the Pens have a dearth of right-handed shots for top-line play.


I'm hesistant to jump on Kessel if what I hear about his parents is true, but maybe they won't behave the same once he's in the pro's of course they could always hang out with Orpiks dad and slag the franchise ;)

I just go back to Herb saying its not the best players its the right players...
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Postby Mad City Mike on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:28 pm

The good news here seems to be that there at least three good players, maybe four, available. It looks like the Pens will finish no worse than next to last, so they will get one of the top 3.
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Postby Defence21 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:29 pm

Reilly wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Reilly wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Maybe it's the 'Sid factor', but it just doesn't seem to me like any of these guys are 'Franchise Players'.


:roll:

Seriously, how about adding some of your ever-wonderful knowledge instead of acting so smart and all-knowing.


Ok

I think your opinion sucks.

Happy now?

Nope. I didn't voice an opinion, I noted facts. You obviously can't comprehend what I said. How about adding INSIGHT, like an opinion -- your reasoning for disagreeing.

I have rarely, if ever, seen you post anything that offers a counterstance. Instead, I always see you act almighty by using your favorite rolling eyes smiley or a one-liner.

If you have differning opinions, that's great -- it creates conversation. But you always seem to disagree, but never have an actual opinion. All I am asking is for you to defend why you think someone's opinion is wrong. All you're doing is making yourself look dumb, while trying to make others look dumb.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:30 pm

Reilly wrote: I think your opinion sucks.

Happy now?


It must really suck to live the Life of Reilly. It must be tough being a person who everyone ridicules. It must be horrible to continually post, yet never add anything meaningful to the conversation.

I pity you.
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Postby Reilly on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:44 pm

Defence21 wrote:Nope. I didn't voice an opinion, I noted facts.


Where?


Defence21 wrote:All I am asking is for you to defend why you think someone's opinion is wrong.


Speculating on a players possible career in the NHL is stupid.
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Postby Tocchet on Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:47 pm

I pity you.

"I pity the fool who don't eat my cereal." Hopefully that's the first -- and only -- Pee Wee Herman's Big Adventure reference on LGP.com.

I just go back to Herb saying its not the best players its the right players...

I hadn't heard about any issue's with Kessel's parents, but he seems to be the right kind of player: elite offensive talent who can play on the wing of one of the top two lines, and a righty.
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Postby Ron` on Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:22 pm

All I can say is that if you have honestly watched this guy's progress over this year maybe you can understand why he is sliding. This draft is not a strong draft by anyones estimation. Kessel did very little to distance himself from the weak field. I am just glad he may slide right out of the Pittsburgh pick picture. But thats my opinion.
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Postby Tocchet on Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:40 pm

He out-produced (by 13 points in 2 less games) the guy who is catching up to him. How is that sliding?
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Postby DelPen on Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:41 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:The good news here seems to be that there at least three good players, maybe four, available. It looks like the Pens will finish no worse than next to last, so they will get one of the top 3.


Bj's have 67 points with 32 wins and beat us. The best we can finish is also 67 points so we lose on the tie breakers. This means the worst we pick now is 5th.
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Postby wondermoose on Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:44 pm

He's small and can't take care of himself. If we're going to get another elite offensive player, it should be someone big who can throw down and hit people if need be.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:58 pm

Where was all this wonderful insight when this was first posted 2 days ago?

:P :lol:
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Postby jmh70 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:01 pm

Toews had a strong recent run of games, so that's why he is catching up/overtaking Kessel. If Toews has a strong Frozen Four he may further the idea amongst scouts that he is the better player. Toews is on ESPN2 tomorrow if anyone's interested.
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Postby Tocchet on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:02 pm

If we're going to get another elite offensive player, it should be someone big who can throw down and hit people if need be.

Okay, who of the big four does that describe? Not Toews and not Staal.
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Postby wondermoose on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:07 pm

Tocchet wrote:
If we're going to get another elite offensive player, it should be someone big who can throw down and hit people if need be.

Okay, who of the big four does that describe? Not Toews and not Staal.


Exactly! Get Johnson instead!
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Postby Tocchet on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:19 pm

Check out the organization's depth chart. This team has two legit top-line players, and each plays center. Christensen plays center as well. Otherwise, the team doesn't have much high-end talent to play on the wings with Crosby and Malkin. They must address it in this draft.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:26 pm

Tocchet wrote:Check out the organization's depth chart. This team has two legit top-line players, and each plays center. Christensen plays center as well. Otherwise, the team doesn't have much high-end talent to play on the wings with Crosby and Malkin. They must address it in this draft.


Problem is, Kessel, Toews, and Staal are all primarily centers as well, at least according to RLR. I am sure one or all of them COULD move to wing, but are you taking away from their top level effectiveness if you do that? Crosby was way more productive in the middle as opposed to wing.

RLR's highest rated W is Nicklas Backstom (a MrKN favoritre) and he's 5th. Another reason why I would throw the pick out there as bait, looking to ill the need at wing.

Otherwise, I go with best player available and make a trade down the road if it comes to that. I don't believe any of these guys are NHL ready, but I am only going off what I have read. I have not been fortunate enough to see any of them play.
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