Interesting take on the Crosby haters....

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Interesting take on the Crosby haters....

Postby wondermoose on Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:12 pm

As a Pens fan, I am sure all of you are starting to second guess Sid. It hurts that EVERYONE likes Ovechkin and EVERYONE, besides us, hates Sid. We know he's going to be great, but a lot of Pens fans seem like they're starting to resent his attitude.

Well let me tell you what. Sid's attitude makes me love him so much more than I could ever like Ovechkin. He has a winning attitude. He needs to win and when he doesn't he doesn't "whine", he gets downright pissed! Ovechkin doesn't seem to care one way or another if he wins or loses. He just likes to play hockey.

Personally, I like the fact that everyone hates our best player. That's the way it should be. I'm pretty sure that no one liked Gretzky or Mario, and if Sid's career is half as good as theirs, I'll be happy with that.
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Postby borohcky9 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:13 pm

Good optimistic outlook, are you sure your a pens fan?
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Postby netwolf on Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:58 pm

What led you to that conclusion? I could care less what other people think of the players on my team. Their opinions have no bearing on how I form my own.

And for the record, I enjoy watching both of them play.
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Re: Interesting take on the Crosby haters....

Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:01 pm

wondermoose wrote:I'm pretty sure that no one liked Gretzky or Mario


:?: :?:
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Re: Interesting take on the Crosby haters....

Postby wondermoose on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:05 pm

Vanbiesbrouck wrote:
wondermoose wrote:I'm pretty sure that no one liked Gretzky or Mario


:?: :?:


Other than Pittsburgh fans or Edmonton fans. Sorry if that was unclear.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:07 pm

No, I got you there. Certainly they were liked best in these cities, but I'm not sure the comparison to how people feel about Sid is accurate. I don't like the Red Wings, but I think Stevie Y is a great player and I'm happy to see him do well. Sure there are people who are going to hate the good rookie on the other team, but I believe that fades quickly for those that are actually fans of the game.
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Postby wondermoose on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:08 pm

People didn't like Yzerman when he got into the league either. People don't like teens in general playing hockey I guess. BUT I'm saying that's a good thing! I don't want people to like Crosby 8)
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Re: Interesting take on the Crosby haters....

Postby FuturePens on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:12 pm

wondermoose wrote:As a Pens fan, I am sure all of you are starting to second guess Sid. It hurts that EVERYONE likes Ovechkin and EVERYONE, besides us, hates Sid. We know he's going to be great, but a lot of Pens fans seem like they're starting to resent his attitude.

Well let me tell you what. Sid's attitude makes me love him so much more than I could ever like Ovechkin. He has a winning attitude. He needs to win and when he doesn't he doesn't "whine", he gets downright pissed! Ovechkin doesn't seem to care one way or another if he wins or loses. He just likes to play hockey.

Personally, I like the fact that everyone hates our best player. That's the way it should be. I'm pretty sure that no one liked Gretzky or Mario, and if Sid's career is half as good as theirs, I'll be happy with that.


You're nuts, everyone loved Mario, he' was the real sizzle !!!
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Postby FallenHero96 on Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:56 am

I don't think anyone has second guessed Crosby, I don't know where that came from. Pretty much everybody knows he is going to be a awesome player.
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Postby Stoosh on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:42 am

I am sure all of you are starting to second guess Sid.


I don't know of anyone that's second-guessed this kid at all. I know I haven't, not for one second.

Ovechkin brings different things to the table than Crosby does, but it doesn't diminish the value of either of them. They're both superstar-caliber players. For two guys to be putting up the kind of numbers that they are at their respective ages, I mean...wow. Seriously, this is like going on a date and having your choice of company be Scarlett Johansson or Halle Berry. There's no wrong answer here. It's all in your matter of preference.

It's going to be awfully fun to be a hockey fan over the next 15 years. Now I know what it was like when Magic and Bird entered the NBA.
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Postby Jim on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:54 am

I am second guessing him... but the other way.

Before the season I totally expected this little 18 year old kid to get consistantly physically ******** by the huge defensemen in this league, to possibly get injured, and to max at maybe 50 points. Guess I made an error in judgement.
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Postby FlyerNation on Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:33 am

No one liked Gretzky? Please he was never ripped the way Crosby was when he came into the league or when he reached star status. Lemeuix was hated to a point but that was more out of an unfair French Canadien bias and his inability to speak english upset some.
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Postby The Snapshot on Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:48 am

FlyerNation wrote:No one liked Gretzky? Please he was never ripped the way Crosby was when he came into the league or when he reached star status. Lemeuix was hated to a point but that was more out of an unfair French Canadien bias and his inability to speak english upset some.


I agree, I can never recall a player that has made such a huge impact on the league - and is still hated by so many outside of Pittsburgh. This has huge potential to be a big nagative for the League as a whole. He should be one of the most marketable players in the league, possibly even the face of the league in the coming years - and yet many fans don't like him, or more importantly RESPECT him.

Most every other player that has been hated (i.e. Gretzy haters) still had the respect of the fans in other cities.

It's a big problem that Sid needs to fix. It's funny, because his burning intensity should be what makes folks love him - and instead it is something that he is turning into a rallying point for his detractors.
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Postby wondermoose on Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:02 pm

When I say second guess, I mean his attitude. It's like you see him implode on camera in games whiles Ovechkin scores 2 goals in his, and for awhile, I couldn't help but think, "Gee, I wish he acted like him..."


And yes, everyone hated Gretzky far more than you realize. He got the same whiner nicknames, etc, when he first came into the league.
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Postby Steve on Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:38 pm

When I say second guess, I mean his attitude. It's like you see him implode on camera in games whiles Ovechkin scores 2 goals in his, and for awhile, I couldn't help but think, "Gee, I wish he acted like him..."


True - but the other 99% of the time when he's making an unbelievalble pass or move etc etc, I think "gee, How lucky we were to win that lottery".

If I could chose Sid or AO right now, I'd take Sid. If AO played for the Pens now instead of Sid, my answer probably would be different.

Point is, they are both unbelievable players already and I'm thrilled that we were able to land one of them.

Alot of the Sid bashing comes from some Caps fans, who can't stand that there is another rookie phenom besides theirs...

Let's go Pens!
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Postby Pitts on Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:48 pm

The Futuristic Bird wrote:I remember very clearly going to Pens games as a kid when they visited New Jersey. I can say, with 100% conviction, that when Mario came to NJ they hated him. They yelled at him, called him names, etc. As a kid I thought that was perverse.

Perhaps that was due to the fact that New Jersey was poised to select 1st overall the year Mario was drafted until the Pens went into full tank mode to secure the last place spot.
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Postby Stoosh on Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:56 pm

No one liked Gretzky? Please he was never ripped the way Crosby was when he came into the league or when he reached star status.


Because I was only 4 years old when Gretzky made his NHL debut in the 1979-80 hockey season, I obviously can't comment with any authority on this.

I do recall earlier in the season a column written by Jim Kelley that appeared on sportsnet.ca. The column appeared when the Crosby-bashing was probably at its peak (maybe December-ish), and Kelley used the column to really go after some of the Crosby bashers. He mentioned that Gretzky was subjected to a lot of same type of criticism that Crosby's been receiving. Kelley made it sound like most of Gretzky's criticism came from the Canadian media outside of Edmonton. And that makes sense...not many non-NHL American media outlets would've cared much, and even those that were in NHL cities probably didn't care much more. But Kelley did say that Gretzky was branded a whiner and a crybaby by the media and fans of many opposing NHL clubs.

It'd be interesting to see what the criticism of Gretzky would've been like had he broken into the league with the media outlets that exist now (or vice versa for Crosby). When Gretzky was playing his first NHL games, there was no internet. Cable TV was in its fledgling days - as was ESPN - and my guess is that most hockey fans in Pittsburgh or Chicago weren't reading what columnists and beat writers in Calgary and Vancouver were saying about Gretzky.

Myself, I love the fact that most fans outside Pittsburgh cheer against Crosby. It would be awfully stale if they didn't. Just because the fans here think he's a good guy doesn't mean the rest of the league has to. I would hope that fans of other teams would perceive him as "the enemy" (for lack of a better term). Here's what I mean...

Back when I used to follow the NBA, I used to be a Knicks fan and I hated, hated, HATED Jordan and the Bulls. It wasn't so much that I hated Jordan or his teammates. I hated the fact that at the end of the day, the guy was so competitive and so good that you just knew he was going to find a way to beat you no matter what. I hated the fact that I was a fan of some pretty good Knicks teams (early 1990s) that were never able to get over that hump of Jordan's Bulls teams. I never came remotely close to rooting for Jordan. But as a basketball fan, I respected the hell out of him, mostly because he was so damn tough to beat and because his very presence on the floor made the game more fun to watch.

That's what makes rivalries what they are. Take Lindros, for example. I never, ever liked the guy. I don't think I ever HATED him, but I certainly would never cheer for him (although if he was traded from Quebec to Pittsburgh instead of Philly, I may have felt differently about him). But I loved the fact that he played for Philly because it just made those games so much more intense for me. And like Jordan, when Lindros was healthy and in his prime, you knew he was going to get his points. I just always hoped the team would do enough to keep the rest of the club in check, shut Lindros down as much as possible and maybe give him a good roughing-up here and there. I always looked forward to Flyers games because of that. I still don't care for the Flyers...I still look forward to the games, but I will say that for me, the games aren't as much fun as they used to be because Lindros is no longer there.

So in a roundabout way, I think it's good that Crosby is villified to some degree by fans of other teams because I think he's villified for a lot of good reasons (namely, fans recognize superior talent, especially when superior talent is smoking their team). The league could use more polarizing figures like this to ratchet up the interest in games.
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Postby wondermoose on Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:43 pm

Stoosh wrote:
No one liked Gretzky? Please he was never ripped the way Crosby was when he came into the league or when he reached star status.


Because I was only 4 years old when Gretzky made his NHL debut in the 1979-80 hockey season, I obviously can't comment with any authority on this.

I do recall earlier in the season a column written by Jim Kelley that appeared on sportsnet.ca. The column appeared when the Crosby-bashing was probably at its peak (maybe December-ish), and Kelley used the column to really go after some of the Crosby bashers. He mentioned that Gretzky was subjected to a lot of same type of criticism that Crosby's been receiving. Kelley made it sound like most of Gretzky's criticism came from the Canadian media outside of Edmonton. And that makes sense...not many non-NHL American media outlets would've cared much, and even those that were in NHL cities probably didn't care much more. But Kelley did say that Gretzky was branded a whiner and a crybaby by the media and fans of many opposing NHL clubs.

It'd be interesting to see what the criticism of Gretzky would've been like had he broken into the league with the media outlets that exist now (or vice versa for Crosby). When Gretzky was playing his first NHL games, there was no internet. Cable TV was in its fledgling days - as was ESPN - and my guess is that most hockey fans in Pittsburgh or Chicago weren't reading what columnists and beat writers in Calgary and Vancouver were saying about Gretzky.

Myself, I love the fact that most fans outside Pittsburgh cheer against Crosby. It would be awfully stale if they didn't. Just because the fans here think he's a good guy doesn't mean the rest of the league has to. I would hope that fans of other teams would perceive him as "the enemy" (for lack of a better term). Here's what I mean...

Back when I used to follow the NBA, I used to be a Knicks fan and I hated, hated, HATED Jordan and the Bulls. It wasn't so much that I hated Jordan or his teammates. I hated the fact that at the end of the day, the guy was so competitive and so good that you just knew he was going to find a way to beat you no matter what. I hated the fact that I was a fan of some pretty good Knicks teams (early 1990s) that were never able to get over that hump of Jordan's Bulls teams. I never came remotely close to rooting for Jordan. But as a basketball fan, I respected the hell out of him, mostly because he was so damn tough to beat and because his very presence on the floor made the game more fun to watch.

That's what makes rivalries what they are. Take Lindros, for example. I never, ever liked the guy. I don't think I ever HATED him, but I certainly would never cheer for him (although if he was traded from Quebec to Pittsburgh instead of Philly, I may have felt differently about him). But I loved the fact that he played for Philly because it just made those games so much more intense for me. And like Jordan, when Lindros was healthy and in his prime, you knew he was going to get his points. I just always hoped the team would do enough to keep the rest of the club in check, shut Lindros down as much as possible and maybe give him a good roughing-up here and there. I always looked forward to Flyers games because of that. I still don't care for the Flyers...I still look forward to the games, but I will say that for me, the games aren't as much fun as they used to be because Lindros is no longer there.

So in a roundabout way, I think it's good that Crosby is villified to some degree by fans of other teams because I think he's villified for a lot of good reasons (namely, fans recognize superior talent, especially when superior talent is smoking their team). The league could use more polarizing figures like this to ratchet up the interest in games.


Yeah that's the point I was going for. Thanks for explaining it better! 8)
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challenge to Sid... :)

Postby penny lane on Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:24 pm

Can Sidney get 13 points but no additional PIMS? :lol:
Currently has 87 points & 100 penalty mins :!:
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Postby HomerPenguin on Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:37 pm

The Snapshot wrote:I agree, I can never recall a player that has made such a huge impact on the league - and is still hated by so many outside of Pittsburgh. This has huge potential to be a big nagative for the League as a whole. He should be one of the most marketable players in the league, possibly even the face of the league in the coming years - and yet many fans don't like him, or more importantly RESPECT him.

Most every other player that has been hated (i.e. Gretzy haters) still had the respect of the fans in other cities.

It's a big problem that Sid needs to fix. It's funny, because his burning intensity should be what makes folks love him - and instead it is something that he is turning into a rallying point for his detractors.


Why the F does Sid have to fix anything? Is he legally liable if he isn't universally loved and respected as an ambassador for the game of hockey? Screw the fans in other cities. They're pissed that their team didn't win the lottery and double-plus pissed that Crosby has turned out to be as advertised.

If the league wants to use Crosby as a marketing tool, then they could try, oh, MARKETING HIM. When Michael Jordan hit the NBA refs would let him walk three laps up and down the court without dribbling if he wanted. If Crosby blinks twice at a ref he gets a double minor and ten minute misconduct. Maybe the problem is that NHL officials care more about whose **** looks bigger than about the state of the league they work for. If the NHL really wants to improve its image from garage league to respectable niche major league sport, nothing would have a greater impact than a mass firing of every single referee currently under contract. THEY are the main reason why this league is and will continue to be a joke.
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Re: challenge to Sid... :)

Postby HomerPenguin on Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:39 pm

penny lane wrote:Can Sidney get 13 points but no additional PIMS? :lol:
Currently has 87 points & 100 penalty mins :!:


So if he gets 100 of each...what? Is this some kind of occult numerology? Will it open a portal to another dimension?
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Postby wondermoose on Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:42 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:I agree, I can never recall a player that has made such a huge impact on the league - and is still hated by so many outside of Pittsburgh. This has huge potential to be a big nagative for the League as a whole. He should be one of the most marketable players in the league, possibly even the face of the league in the coming years - and yet many fans don't like him, or more importantly RESPECT him.

Most every other player that has been hated (i.e. Gretzy haters) still had the respect of the fans in other cities.

It's a big problem that Sid needs to fix. It's funny, because his burning intensity should be what makes folks love him - and instead it is something that he is turning into a rallying point for his detractors.


Why the F does Sid have to fix anything? Is he legally liable if he isn't universally loved and respected as an ambassador for the game of hockey? Screw the fans in other cities. They're pissed that their team didn't win the lottery and double-plus pissed that Crosby has turned out to be as advertised.

If the league wants to use Crosby as a marketing tool, then they could try, oh, MARKETING HIM. When Michael Jordan hit the NBA refs would let him walk three laps up and down the court without dribbling if he wanted. If Crosby blinks twice at a ref he gets a double minor and ten minute misconduct. Maybe the problem is that NHL officials care more about whose **** looks bigger than about the state of the league they work for. If the NHL really wants to improve its image from garage league to respectable niche major league sport, nothing would have a greater impact than a mass firing of every single referee currently under contract. THEY are the main reason why this league is and will continue to be a joke.



That is an interesting point.... They WANT the young guns to run the league, but they aren't throwing their number 1 marketing tool a friggin' bone. In the past, it was accepted that if you messed with an elite player, you were gonna get pounded for the rest of the game. After the Bertuzzi incident, it's all different. They don't want that happen anymore, but yet, they aren't telling the refs to protect the younger players either. Case in point: Crosby's knees get taken out, refs toss Roy before he can do anything about it. Go figure.
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