Jackman Thoughts

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Jackman Thoughts

Postby Mad City Mike on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:19 pm

"Ric Jackman has been a pretty good offensive defencemen for the Penguins and he`s been riding the pine for several weeks. That one I don`t get, I guess he ticked off somebody. Jackman wants out of Dodge and Craig Patrick will accomodate. The Toronto native will not be coming home to roost as Pat Quinn does not enjoy the play of one Richard Jackman. Somebody will certainly grab Jackman by March 9th, how about Tampa Bay? their Power play percentage at home is 12, that`s horrible, worst in the league."

Courtesy Kevin Gibson at http://v2.hockeybuzz.com/blogworld/blog ... &post=1184
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Postby yeltzen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:22 pm

Maybe he said something our darling little assistant captain didn't agree with.
yeltzen
 

Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:26 pm

Are we actually quoting blogs now?

I guess this guy knows what is going on in Pittsburgh because he writes about hockey from Toronto.
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Postby Bowser on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:26 pm

I think if Tampa Bay trades Kubina to help get a goalie, they'll be after Jackman because of ability on the power-play.
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Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:27 pm

yeltzen wrote:Maybe he said something our darling little assistant captain didn't agree with.


Well, he was too young to retire like Palffy did.
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Postby yeltzen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Shooters wrote:More like he's been a sive on defense and can't hit the net with his shot.

As opposed to our other defensively-sound, deadly-accurate blueliners.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:29 pm

kramer wrote:Are we actually quoting blogs now?

I guess this guy knows what is going on in Pittsburgh because he writes about hockey from Toronto.


And what that he said do you disagree with? Gibson is actually a pretty respected hockey writer. He's not saying he heard anything, just that Tampa Bay would be a good fit. And do you argue that Jackman has ticked somebody off, either with his play or off the ice? I think his only mistake is thinking our zombi GM would be awake enough to try to make a trade.
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Postby MarioLives on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:32 pm

I feel for the guy.....he is a good player.
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Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:32 pm

Bowser wrote:I think if Tampa Bay trades Kubina to help get a goalie, they'll be after Jackman because of ability on the power-play.


What ability? He has the 5th most PP time on ice and second of defense for the Pens and only has 2 goals and 8 assists to show for it.
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Postby yeltzen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:33 pm

Shooters wrote:
yeltzen wrote:
Shooters wrote:More like he's been a sive on defense and can't hit the net with his shot.

As opposed to our other deadly-accurate blueliners.


Whitney at least plays defense AND has hit the net more often than not with his shot. Gonchar can't even control the puck long enough to get a shot it seems. After that, the rest are defensive defensemen.

Jackman, Tarnestrom, and Gonchar are 3 BIG reasons the Pens are sporting such a poor record. How many giveaways have they had that have led to goals?

Whitney hasn't been great but, at least he's young and playing better. He at least has the excuse of being young. Jackman's been around long enough to not be playing so poorly.


Whitney hits the net more often than not?
How about the other night on the Isle where he took a shot from the point that hit the corner boards...
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Postby yeltzen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:34 pm

kramer wrote:
Bowser wrote:I think if Tampa Bay trades Kubina to help get a goalie, they'll be after Jackman because of ability on the power-play.


What ability? He has the 5th most PP time on ice and second of defense for the Pens and only has 2 goals and 8 assists to show for it.

You're not going to get many points on the PP playing on the second unit, I don't care how good you are.
yeltzen
 

Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:35 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
kramer wrote:Are we actually quoting blogs now?

I guess this guy knows what is going on in Pittsburgh because he writes about hockey from Toronto.


And what that he said do you disagree with? Gibson is actually a pretty respected hockey writer. He's not saying he heard anything, just that Tampa Bay would be a good fit. And do you argue that Jackman has ticked somebody off, either with his play or off the ice? I think his only mistake is thinking our zombi GM would be awake enough to try to make a trade.


I think quoting blogs is rather funny, that's all. His opinion isn't any more than that - an opinion. But go ahead and quote away! We can fill these boards with other people's opinions. Makes sense to me.
kramer
 

Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:36 pm

yeltzen wrote:You're not going to get many points on the PP playing on the second unit, I don't care how good you are.


I repeat: He has the 2nd most ice time on the PP of all the defenseman. That translates to 1st line time.
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Postby yeltzen on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:40 pm

kramer wrote:
yeltzen wrote:You're not going to get many points on the PP playing on the second unit, I don't care how good you are.


I repeat: He has the 2nd most ice time on the PP of all the defenseman. That translates to 1st line time.

He doesn't play on the first unit.
The end.
yeltzen
 

Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:46 pm

Here's a request for Jackman from me.

Stop sucking.

He has been beyond terrible this year, and I can't understand why he has supporters. He scored, but while he was racking up points, the team was pretty hot. Pretty much the entire team was scoring at that time at a good pace.

I highly doubt having him in the lineup right now will create anymore offense. The ONLY player on the entire team who can do that is Crosby.

Jackman is downright awful on defense. There were several plays earlier this year where he played so fundamentally unsound that it was hard to believe he was in the league. One particular play that sticks out in my mind was a two on one where he didn't bother to take the pass or the shot, and completely left Fleury out to dry.

He sucks. He is worse than the 6 they have and that is why he is being scratched. The Pens would be lucky to get a 7th round pick for him. There is a reason that Toronto gave him up for Berehowsky.
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Postby Mad City Mike on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:56 pm

kramer wrote:I think quoting blogs is rather funny, that's all. His opinion isn't any more than that - an opinion. But go ahead and quote away! We can fill these boards with other people's opinions. Makes sense to me.


It generated conversation, did it not :roll:
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Postby kramer on Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:59 pm

yeltzen wrote:
kramer wrote:
yeltzen wrote:You're not going to get many points on the PP playing on the second unit, I don't care how good you are.


I repeat: He has the 2nd most ice time on the PP of all the defenseman. That translates to 1st line time.

He doesn't play on the first unit.
The end.


Not now, but he did. He still has the 5th most PP ice time of any player on the team.

The end.
kramer
 

Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:06 pm

Yep. Back when Jackman was in the lineup regularly, the top PP unit had he and Gonchar on the points for an extended time.

Anyways, it doesn't matter much. Put Jackman on the first unit and he will pick up points as long as Crosby is out there. Put Melichar on the point with Crosby and he will pick up some points too. Crosby is the catalyst of the power play, and putting Jackman on there isn't going to make it better or worse.
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Postby NIN on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:15 pm

MrKnowNothing wrote:Here's a request for Jackman from me.

Stop sucking.

He has been beyond terrible this year, and I can't understand why he has supporters. He scored, but while he was racking up points, the team was pretty hot. Pretty much the entire team was scoring at that time at a good pace.

I highly doubt having him in the lineup right now will create anymore offense. The ONLY player on the entire team who can do that is Crosby.

Jackman is downright awful on defense. There were several plays earlier this year where he played so fundamentally unsound that it was hard to believe he was in the league. One particular play that sticks out in my mind was a two on one where he didn't bother to take the pass or the shot, and completely left Fleury out to dry.

He sucks. He is worse than the 6 they have and that is why he is being scratched. The Pens would be lucky to get a 7th round pick for him. There is a reason that Toronto gave him up for Berehowsky.


I have to agree with everything you say except for the last paragraph. Jackman is among the top 5 in the entire NHL in scoring since he became a Penguin. That isnt just chipping in a few points here and there, that is all-star quality offense we are talking about.

As bad as he is defenseively, and despite his best efforts he is terrible, he isnt that far of a drop off from the current talent poll. That is the frustrating part about it. A closer look reveils that Melichar actually helped make Jackman look like a capable NHL defender by backing him up and allowing Jackman to wonder. Why does Gonchar get Orpik to cover for him and a ton of icetime but fail to produce points? Jackman has been more involved and effective then Gonchar and he hasnt had nearly as much icetime and the guy they used to back him up most of the time was Tarnstrom!

The Pens have been **** with Jackman all season and I don't understand it. There is probably some financial reason behind it like there always seems to be with the team, their probably setting him up for a failed arbitration case for all I know. Jackman and Melichar played as a unit for only 3 games and they stood out (as far as quality pairings go on this team) all 3 games yet both coaches refuse to help Jackman or keep him in a postition of strength that would help him be more effective at his game.

In closing I would just like to reiterate that it isnt so much about Jackmans ability, it's about playing your best players and putting them in the best possible situation to succeed. Whitney,Orpik,Scuderi,Gonchar,Melichar, and Jackman are the teams top 6 defensmen right now. Cairns is your 7th man and CP is a joke for aquireing a 35 year old waste of roster space like Cross.
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:33 pm

Well, first, Patrick got Cross in that deal to even out salary. I'd put money on that. If that deal could have been done for just Rita, it would have.

But, getting back to Jackman. He does have some good offensive abilities, but his downside is his defense, which makes him unplayable. As bad as some of the defenders on this team are, Jackman has got them all beat, even Cairns, which is almost unfathomable if you have followed Cairns' carreer.

Jackman is like a poor man's Andy Delmore, which if you think about it, is pretty telling as to his defensive shortcomings. In the right situation, he might put up points, but in the long run, it is bad to have him in the lineup regularly.

Some playoff bound team might want him for depth, or some borderline team might want him to try to improve some aspect of their offense for a playoff push. If this is true, they should take whatever kind of pick they could get for him. He should not be in the future plans of this team, and definitely not as a top 4 defenseman. Welch will be ready for some time next year almost for sure.

Slightly off topic, but I don't know what can really be done about this defense. They need to weed out players like Tarnstrom (check) and Jackman, as well as Cross, Cairns, Melichar (may want to keep him for depth). We're stuck with Gonchar. I question whether it is a good idea to have guys like Whitney and Welch be thrown right into the fire and play 23+ minutes against top players, but they may have no choice. It would be nice to get a world beater like Redden to anchor the turning around of this defense, but we are kinda stuck with Gonchar.
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jackman

Postby Pipes Hochuli on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:38 pm

As I posted earlier, but didnt get much response, I'd like to se himi go to Vancouver with Jovo out for that kid Ryan Kesler. Anyone know anything on Kesler? I've heard he's an extremely hard worker with great feet and a tenacious forecheck, and that the Canucks are only looking to ship him because he's getting so much interest.
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Postby NIN on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:42 pm

Well lets see they traded away the teams leading scorer from 03-04 for what will amount to absolutely nothing so if CP plays his cards right he might be able to trade away one of the NHL's top 5 scorers among defensemen for over the past 70 games played for a 6th round pick.

Yeah that sounds about right. This organization doesnt act when it should and when they do act its WWAAYYYYY too late.
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Postby netwolf on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:42 pm

If (and I stress IF) Whitney gets a larger percentage of his shots on net than Jackman, then it's only because he fans on most of his one-time chances and those don get recorded as attempted shot.

I still think he deserves to be here and he has excellent potential, but his shot is not a strength right now by any means.

As far as Jackman goes, I readily admit he is a sieve on defense. My point was that earlier in the season when he first began to get sat down he was producing at a level that at least made up for it (a point per game average). Other guys that continued to play and were just as bad defensively without producing any offense, let alone close to what he had. Maybe that was because the team was hot (though I don't remember this team ever being hot), or maybe it wasn't, but the fact is, no one else that's played in his place has done the same ofensively. In Gonchar's case, that's understandable - he wasn't going to get benched because of his contract and quite frankly, I doubt it would do any good.

All that aside, Jackman playing would have little to no impact on the team's record.
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:42 pm

Kesler is a pretty good prospect. I have only seen him once or twice, so I don't know that much about him. I don't think Jackman would command him in a trade.

What the Penguins might be looking for is a player similar to Rita, who has been with a team for a while but might need a change of scenery to succeed.

It would have been nice to get Anton Babchuk, who is looking like a steal for Carolina.
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Postby MrKnowNothing on Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:47 pm

NIN wrote:Well lets see they traded away the teams leading scorer from 03-04 for what will amount to absolutely nothing so if CP plays his cards right he might be able to trade away one of the NHL's top 5 scorers among defensemen for over the past 70 games played for a 6th round pick.

Yeah that sounds about right. This organization doesnt act when it should and when they do act its WWAAYYYYY too late.


I really don't understand what you mean. Tarnstrom is a power play specialist who is a bottom pairing defenseman if you have the roster spot for him.

Jackman is a project who can't crack the worst defense in the league. Nobody is going to give up much of anything for him.

As for your last statement, if you want to say that about the Pens, I'd agree in general, especially when you look at past deals like the Jagr trade, but not about Tarnstrom or Jackman. They are overglorified for some reason among Penguin fans when they really just don't have that much value leaguewide.

Reminds me of a certain number 11 who used to play defense here.
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