The Richards/Crosby Collision...

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Re: Flyers youth

Postby NIN on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:09 am

FlyerNation wrote:
I said I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Crosby and why is that so hard to understand. Pitkanen has been far and away the Flyers best defenseman this season if not their best player. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he'd be closing in on 70+ points at this point and a plus 25. Never did I say he was more talented or become the better player but he's the best young defenseman in the game aside from Phaneuf and he gets the hype because he's North American and he lays people out. Once Pitkanen develops his game physically which isn't that far off he'll be a beast and perennial Norris canidate. I said he's untouchable and I wouldn't trade him for almost anybody. That's not a rip on Crosby but recognition for how talented Pitkanen is and the value of a no 1 defenseman.

As for your comparisons Pit isn't the only one. It's not like Fleury is playing any stronger than Nitti or vice versa. Umberger already is at a level where Armstrong will need another season to match where he is. I'll take a Meyer over Welch predicition as well.


I understood what you said originally, but he does make an interesting argument. Carter and Richards are going to be fine hockey players but they are and will never be in the same league as Crosby and Malkin.

Other than the fact that I want someone to permenantly wipe that silly grin off of Pitkenans face, he is a solid defensmen for sure. Jonsson is just as good in my opinion but I guess he got hurt too. Pitkanen really reads the play well but Whitney is right there with him in that regard. Whitney is an unbeleivable passer, he blows Pitkanen away in that regard, Whitney is like a Leetch/Thronton hybird with the puck and he is going to wrack up A TON of assists in the future. Defensively Pitkanen is way better but they both need to be more physical out there. I don't know how old Pitkanen is or how much icetime he logs but Whit is over 24 minutes a game as a 22 year old rookie. That work load has made him less aggressive. Eric Johnson will be better then both of them, and Phaneuaf will have something to say about that Norris trophy as well.

I think Nittymaki is a great goalie but Fluery is alittle bit better. I would love to see what he can do with a better defense.

I would'nt trade Armstrong for ANYBODY on your team. I wouldnt even trade Malone or Oullete for Umberger. We have enough divers on our team already. :D
NIN
 

Re: Flyers youth

Postby FlyerNation on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:24 am

NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
I said I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Crosby and why is that so hard to understand. Pitkanen has been far and away the Flyers best defenseman this season if not their best player. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he'd be closing in on 70+ points at this point and a plus 25. Never did I say he was more talented or become the better player but he's the best young defenseman in the game aside from Phaneuf and he gets the hype because he's North American and he lays people out. Once Pitkanen develops his game physically which isn't that far off he'll be a beast and perennial Norris canidate. I said he's untouchable and I wouldn't trade him for almost anybody. That's not a rip on Crosby but recognition for how talented Pitkanen is and the value of a no 1 defenseman.

As for your comparisons Pit isn't the only one. It's not like Fleury is playing any stronger than Nitti or vice versa. Umberger already is at a level where Armstrong will need another season to match where he is. I'll take a Meyer over Welch predicition as well.


I understood what you said originally, but he does make an interesting argument. Carter and Richards are going to be fine hockey players but they are and will never be in the same league as Crosby and Malkin.

Other than the fact that I want someone to permenantly wipe that silly grin off of Pitkenans face, he is a solid defensmen for sure. Jonsson is just as good in my opinion but I guess he got hurt too. Pitkanen really reads the play well but Whitney is right there with him in that regard. Whitney is an unbeleivable passer, he blows Pitkanen away in that regard, Whitney is like a Leetch/Thronton hybird with the puck and he is going to wrack up A TON of assists in the future. Defensively Pitkanen is way better but they both need to be more physical out there. I don't know how old Pitkanen is or how much icetime he logs but Whit is over 24 minutes a game as a 22 year old rookie. That work load has made him less aggressive. Eric Johnson will be better then both of them, and Phaneuaf will have something to say about that Norris trophy as well.

I think Nittymaki is a great goalie but Fluery is alittle bit better. I would love to see what he can do with a better defense.

I would'nt trade Armstrong for ANYBODY on your team. I wouldnt even trade Malone or Oullete for Umberger. We have enough divers on our team already. :D


Pitkanen is 22 and logs over 24 a night and recently played back to back 30 minute games with the suspension to Gautheir. Could argue all day about if he's a better passer than Whitney. He's an incredible passer. He does it all and even with Jonnson at his best he's still not better than Pitkanen.

I agree no one on the Flyers will ever be at the level of Crosby or Malkin. I see Carter someday a 40 80 guy and Richards a 25 60 but not in the elite status. Pitkanen is the only young guy on the Flyers I see in the future being in the elite status at least for defenseman.
FlyerNation
 

Re: Flyers youth

Postby NIN on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:27 am

FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
I said I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Crosby and why is that so hard to understand. Pitkanen has been far and away the Flyers best defenseman this season if not their best player. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he'd be closing in on 70+ points at this point and a plus 25. Never did I say he was more talented or become the better player but he's the best young defenseman in the game aside from Phaneuf and he gets the hype because he's North American and he lays people out. Once Pitkanen develops his game physically which isn't that far off he'll be a beast and perennial Norris canidate. I said he's untouchable and I wouldn't trade him for almost anybody. That's not a rip on Crosby but recognition for how talented Pitkanen is and the value of a no 1 defenseman.

As for your comparisons Pit isn't the only one. It's not like Fleury is playing any stronger than Nitti or vice versa. Umberger already is at a level where Armstrong will need another season to match where he is. I'll take a Meyer over Welch predicition as well.


I understood what you said originally, but he does make an interesting argument. Carter and Richards are going to be fine hockey players but they are and will never be in the same league as Crosby and Malkin.

Other than the fact that I want someone to permenantly wipe that silly grin off of Pitkenans face, he is a solid defensmen for sure. Jonsson is just as good in my opinion but I guess he got hurt too. Pitkanen really reads the play well but Whitney is right there with him in that regard. Whitney is an unbeleivable passer, he blows Pitkanen away in that regard, Whitney is like a Leetch/Thronton hybird with the puck and he is going to wrack up A TON of assists in the future. Defensively Pitkanen is way better but they both need to be more physical out there. I don't know how old Pitkanen is or how much icetime he logs but Whit is over 24 minutes a game as a 22 year old rookie. That work load has made him less aggressive. Eric Johnson will be better then both of them, and Phaneuaf will have something to say about that Norris trophy as well.

I think Nittymaki is a great goalie but Fluery is alittle bit better. I would love to see what he can do with a better defense.

I would'nt trade Armstrong for ANYBODY on your team. I wouldnt even trade Malone or Oullete for Umberger. We have enough divers on our team already. :D


Pitkanen is 22 and logs over 24 a night and recently played back to back 30 minute games with the suspension to Gautheir. Could argue all day about if he's a better passer than Whitney. He's an incredible passer. He does it all and even with Jonnson at his best he's still not better than Pitkanen.

I agree no one on the Flyers will ever be at the level of Crosby or Malkin. I see Carter someday a 40 80 guy and Richards a 25 60 but not in the elite status. Pitkanen is the only young guy on the Flyers I see in the future being in the elite status at least for defenseman.


Wow 30 and then 30 is impressive. He is definately ahead of the curve, I wouldnt be surprised if he won a NOrris someday or at least came close to one. Seabrook is another one to watch out for.
NIN
 

Re: Flyers youth

Postby FlyerNation on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:31 am

NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
I said I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Crosby and why is that so hard to understand. Pitkanen has been far and away the Flyers best defenseman this season if not their best player. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he'd be closing in on 70+ points at this point and a plus 25. Never did I say he was more talented or become the better player but he's the best young defenseman in the game aside from Phaneuf and he gets the hype because he's North American and he lays people out. Once Pitkanen develops his game physically which isn't that far off he'll be a beast and perennial Norris canidate. I said he's untouchable and I wouldn't trade him for almost anybody. That's not a rip on Crosby but recognition for how talented Pitkanen is and the value of a no 1 defenseman.

As for your comparisons Pit isn't the only one. It's not like Fleury is playing any stronger than Nitti or vice versa. Umberger already is at a level where Armstrong will need another season to match where he is. I'll take a Meyer over Welch predicition as well.


I understood what you said originally, but he does make an interesting argument. Carter and Richards are going to be fine hockey players but they are and will never be in the same league as Crosby and Malkin.

Other than the fact that I want someone to permenantly wipe that silly grin off of Pitkenans face, he is a solid defensmen for sure. Jonsson is just as good in my opinion but I guess he got hurt too. Pitkanen really reads the play well but Whitney is right there with him in that regard. Whitney is an unbeleivable passer, he blows Pitkanen away in that regard, Whitney is like a Leetch/Thronton hybird with the puck and he is going to wrack up A TON of assists in the future. Defensively Pitkanen is way better but they both need to be more physical out there. I don't know how old Pitkanen is or how much icetime he logs but Whit is over 24 minutes a game as a 22 year old rookie. That work load has made him less aggressive. Eric Johnson will be better then both of them, and Phaneuaf will have something to say about that Norris trophy as well.

I think Nittymaki is a great goalie but Fluery is alittle bit better. I would love to see what he can do with a better defense.

I would'nt trade Armstrong for ANYBODY on your team. I wouldnt even trade Malone or Oullete for Umberger. We have enough divers on our team already. :D


Pitkanen is 22 and logs over 24 a night and recently played back to back 30 minute games with the suspension to Gautheir. Could argue all day about if he's a better passer than Whitney. He's an incredible passer. He does it all and even with Jonnson at his best he's still not better than Pitkanen.

I agree no one on the Flyers will ever be at the level of Crosby or Malkin. I see Carter someday a 40 80 guy and Richards a 25 60 but not in the elite status. Pitkanen is the only young guy on the Flyers I see in the future being in the elite status at least for defenseman.


Wow 30 and then 30 is impressive. He is definately ahead of the curve, I wouldnt be surprised if he won a NOrris someday or at least came close to one. Seabrook is another one to watch out for.


The one reason I think that might hinder his chances of winning multiple Norris trophies is I believe there is a bias in that award when it comes to european defenseman. Lidstrom has broken that mold but he's been the only one. I see Phaneuf getting more hype than Pitkanen and it's because of his physical play and he's Canadien. I think somehow the common opinion is that Euro defenseman are only one dimensional. Chara might help break that tag as well. Euro defenseman have to really play above their peers to get rcognition when it comes to Norris voting.
FlyerNation
 

Postby roast on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:34 am

Pitkanen and Phaneuf will be tops in the NHL for probably the next decade. I'd love to have him on the pens. I think people under estimate Pitkanen's physical play.
roast
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Postby FlyerNation on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:36 am

roast wrote:Pitkanen and Phaneuf will be tops in the NHL for probably the next decade. I'd love to have him on the pens. I think people under estimate Pitkanen's physical play.
As do I roast. He never lays anyone out but he's always taking the body in front of the net and actually plays a physical game in the corners. I think he's as physical as most defenseman but just never gets those big licks in like Phaneuf or Kasparitis.
FlyerNation
 

Re: Flyers youth

Postby NIN on Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:36 am

FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
NIN wrote:
FlyerNation wrote:
I said I wouldn't trade Pitkanen for Crosby and why is that so hard to understand. Pitkanen has been far and away the Flyers best defenseman this season if not their best player. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he'd be closing in on 70+ points at this point and a plus 25. Never did I say he was more talented or become the better player but he's the best young defenseman in the game aside from Phaneuf and he gets the hype because he's North American and he lays people out. Once Pitkanen develops his game physically which isn't that far off he'll be a beast and perennial Norris canidate. I said he's untouchable and I wouldn't trade him for almost anybody. That's not a rip on Crosby but recognition for how talented Pitkanen is and the value of a no 1 defenseman.

As for your comparisons Pit isn't the only one. It's not like Fleury is playing any stronger than Nitti or vice versa. Umberger already is at a level where Armstrong will need another season to match where he is. I'll take a Meyer over Welch predicition as well.


I understood what you said originally, but he does make an interesting argument. Carter and Richards are going to be fine hockey players but they are and will never be in the same league as Crosby and Malkin.

Other than the fact that I want someone to permenantly wipe that silly grin off of Pitkenans face, he is a solid defensmen for sure. Jonsson is just as good in my opinion but I guess he got hurt too. Pitkanen really reads the play well but Whitney is right there with him in that regard. Whitney is an unbeleivable passer, he blows Pitkanen away in that regard, Whitney is like a Leetch/Thronton hybird with the puck and he is going to wrack up A TON of assists in the future. Defensively Pitkanen is way better but they both need to be more physical out there. I don't know how old Pitkanen is or how much icetime he logs but Whit is over 24 minutes a game as a 22 year old rookie. That work load has made him less aggressive. Eric Johnson will be better then both of them, and Phaneuaf will have something to say about that Norris trophy as well.

I think Nittymaki is a great goalie but Fluery is alittle bit better. I would love to see what he can do with a better defense.

I would'nt trade Armstrong for ANYBODY on your team. I wouldnt even trade Malone or Oullete for Umberger. We have enough divers on our team already. :D


Pitkanen is 22 and logs over 24 a night and recently played back to back 30 minute games with the suspension to Gautheir. Could argue all day about if he's a better passer than Whitney. He's an incredible passer. He does it all and even with Jonnson at his best he's still not better than Pitkanen.

I agree no one on the Flyers will ever be at the level of Crosby or Malkin. I see Carter someday a 40 80 guy and Richards a 25 60 but not in the elite status. Pitkanen is the only young guy on the Flyers I see in the future being in the elite status at least for defenseman.


Wow 30 and then 30 is impressive. He is definately ahead of the curve, I wouldnt be surprised if he won a NOrris someday or at least came close to one. Seabrook is another one to watch out for.


The one reason I think that might hinder his chances of winning multiple Norris trophies is I believe there is a bias in that award when it comes to european defenseman. Lidstrom has broken that mold but he's been the only one. I see Phaneuf getting more hype than Pitkanen and it's because of his physical play and he's Canadien. I think somehow the common opinion is that Euro defenseman are only one dimensional. Chara might help break that tag as well. Euro defenseman have to really play above their peers to get rcognition when it comes to Norris voting.


I agree, Lidtrom doesnt go out of his way to hit anybody. In fact, he should be deserving of the Lady Bing award. He thinks the game at a higher level then anyone else, he is 2 plays ahead of everyobdy and doesnt really need to hit because of that. The fact that he is a euro and plays on an american team (altough original 6 teams carry some rep.) and still wins the Norris on a regular basis shows that if your good enough it just doent matter.

If it comes down to a tie breaker there could be some bias against Pitkenan, I agree.
NIN
 

Postby Steve on Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:39 am

The Flyers have done a great job developing players the last few years - i think some of the assumptions (of being old and slow) come from seeing Hatcher on their blueline. (and as a Pens fan, i hope he's a flyer for a long long time. :) )

but back to that hit on Sid - i hope peeps outside of the burgh realize how tough this kid is. Players have been bouncing off of him all season...

let's go Pens!
Steve
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FN

Postby vcip on Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:48 pm

First I am not just a political guy over there. When I joined that site it was the end of a season than the lock out came. it was in the midst of a huge political/news period which is why I posted much more on the pol site.

As for no one taking me serious, big deal? A bunch of idiots opinions do not bother me. I see they are moving right along with the current PR thread. Real classy.

As for hockey opinion there are no real geniuses there. Mostly they are all complainers. If you can't see that you are blind.

I love Pitkanan. he is one of the best young d-men right now. But he is just not on a level of Crosby.
Would you rather have an in the prime Sakic or Niedermeyer? i think that is the comparison that will come.

I like Meyer alot. He seems to have great hockey sense & skills. he may end up being better than Welch. We'll see
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