2-1-06 The Pittsburgh Penguins @ The New York "Sour Gra

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Postby netwolf on Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:47 pm

Scott wrote:the Pens clearly have some needs at many positions,,
having said that they still have no system.

If this is MT's system(yawn) I am not sure he is the answer either.
Still taking the mental error penalties(i do blame MT for that..seeing how "he holds players to their actions")

Still dump and chase dump and chase, and a lot of times, dump and no chase.

And STILL NO IDENTITY. Talent or not, when you watch this team,,what is their style fo play? THere isnt one.

Teams that lacked the talent still have had an identity. They free wheel, the choke you off, whatever.

WE have none!


The main issue is still the roster. For example, they dressed 6 defensemen tonight, yet Eric Cairns had 6:15 of ice time. If the staff doesn't get him out there more than that and he isn't dressed as a 7th defenseman, that tells me that the staff doesn't think much of his game. Jackman can't even get into the lineup, so that says all you need to know there.

Lefebvre played 14:10. I am guess much of that came on the PK, but still, if a guy like that is playing those kind of minutes there's a problem.

They pretty much had to make a coaching change and I was not a big Edzo guy anyway, but the coach was not the main problem.
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Postby Jesse on Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:20 pm

One thing is for sure, Edmonton fans were sure right about Cross.
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Post-game analysis?

Postby Jerez on Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:26 pm

Why don't you guys start a post-game analysis thread? That would be very nice for us who weren't sitting on the computer during the game and would like to read the opinions of our other valued contributors.

Just a suggestion -- DO IT!

thanks
merci
gracias
danke
obrigada
spasiba

:mrgreen:
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Postby NIN on Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:27 pm

Jesse wrote:One thing is for sure, Edmonton fans were sure right about Cross.


Those new guys make me miss Tarnstrom.
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terrible lines

Postby Elivenspire on Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:44 pm

These lines are awful. It's bad enough that Lemieux retired, but why punish Crosby by not having Rex on his line? and get malon up there too. the Pens continually try to spread their talent around, while every other team gets a legitamate top line. meanwhile, we have thomas and michelle doing nothing for sid. Crosb should get the Calder for being able to play against the other team and still get points with his line
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Postby Jesse on Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:21 am

The one thing that stands out to me about the Penguins is the huge problem with the defenseman relaying the puck to their forwards.

The Penguins can't seem to slow the play down and make a nice, crisp outlet pass.

9 times out of 10 it seems as if the Penguins D-men corral the puck, and with their heads down, simply clear it away. Sometimes out, sometimes into the opposing teams defenseman in the neutral zone.

I saw more nice passes to the other team tonight than to our own forwards.

It seems like this team has a vague idea of what it's supposed to be doing, but isn't putting the idea into practice well.

Example, our forwards understand the importance of cycling in Michel's system, yet they let themselves be forced to the outside, and they are throwing the puck around to no one.

The neutral zone play of this team is a mess, also.

But the biggest thing I saw tonight was the gross inability of our defenseman to deliver the puck to it's forwards.
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Postby netwolf on Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:36 am

Jesse wrote:The one thing that stands out to me about the Penguins is the huge problem with the defenseman relaying the puck to their forwards.

It seems like this team has a vague idea of what it's supposed to be doing, but isn't putting the idea into practice well.

But the biggest thing I saw tonight was the gross inability of our defenseman to deliver the puck to it's forwards.


It all goes back to the roster. As a whole, it just is not good right now.

As far as the passing goes, that's on everyone and has been all season. The next time you go to a game, count the number of consecutive passes the Pens make. Dump-ins and ricochets than land on a Penguins stick don't count. I'll give you a hint, the number never gets very high. If you want to get even more depressed, keep track of whether each string is broken by an attempted shot, a good defensive play, or a flat out miss.

You can do that while watching on TV as well, but I find it easier when actually witnessing the carnage firsthand. :wink:
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like turnovers never happen with the penguins... :(

Postby penny lane on Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:22 am

"Wow, that was glorious! Maybe Sid can get a hat trick of throwing shots into the Ranger's legs tonight"

You're right Sid should never have made that pass; my guess is he'll learn this and it
won't happen again for awhile. how many turnovers a game does
Gonchar make? Sergei's the highest scoring defenseman for all these years...an all-star,
ad nauseum on & on.
I am convinced there is absolutely nothing Sergei does or does not do that will ever make
him a scratch for a game.
Like somebody wrote last night, Sergei is getting his revenge on the penguins from his
CAP losing days.
Why do the pens just let Sergei flounder, get him help...get him a major league
defensive coach.
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Re: like turnovers never happen with the penguins... :(

Postby BCHill on Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:17 am

penny lane wrote:"Wow, that was glorious! Maybe Sid can get a hat trick of throwing shots into the Ranger's legs tonight"

You're right Sid should never have made that pass; my guess is he'll learn this and it
won't happen again for awhile. how many turnovers a game does
Gonchar make? Sergei's the highest scoring defenseman for all these years...an all-star,
ad nauseum on & on.
I am convinced there is absolutely nothing Sergei does or does not do that will ever make
him a scratch for a game.
Like somebody wrote last night, Sergei is getting his revenge on the penguins from his
CAP losing days.
Why do the pens just let Sergei flounder, get him help...get him a major league
defensive coach.


Gonchar is third on the team in turnovers. Who has more than him? Palffy and Crosby. Yes, that's right. Crosby leads the team in turnovers. I wouldn't expect him to learn anytime soon if he hasn't yet.

I'm not giving Gonchar a pass, but I find it interesting that Sid's deficiencies are whitewashed over. He's still young and hopefully will get better, but let's not make excuses for him by saying "well, Gonchar is worse".
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between Sid & Sergei ...

Postby penny lane on Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:27 am

One will be able to adjust and change and one has 1 goal in 37 games.

Penguins sold & told all us that of the veteran, 31 years old, Gonchar's brilliance
and i've seen 5% of him playing to his capabilities.

Sidney, just listen to the pens broadcast he's not getting a pass; he certainly
isn't getting one from the NHL or the veteran players on his own team
or other teams.
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Re: like turnovers never happen with the penguins... :(

Postby netwolf on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:17 pm

BCHill wrote:Gonchar is third on the team in turnovers. Who has more than him? Palffy and Crosby. Yes, that's right. Crosby leads the team in turnovers. I wouldn't expect him to learn anytime soon if he hasn't yet.

I'm not giving Gonchar a pass, but I find it interesting that Sid's deficiencies are whitewashed over. He's still young and hopefully will get better, but let's not make excuses for him by saying "well, Gonchar is worse".


Those turnovers wouldn't be because he's an 18 year old rookie, would they? I hope not because lord knows 18 year old rookies NEVER improve on any aspect of their game. Thirty-something vets are much more likely to change their games, right?
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Re: like turnovers never happen with the penguins... :(

Postby BCHill on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:28 pm

netwolf wrote:
BCHill wrote:Gonchar is third on the team in turnovers. Who has more than him? Palffy and Crosby. Yes, that's right. Crosby leads the team in turnovers. I wouldn't expect him to learn anytime soon if he hasn't yet.

I'm not giving Gonchar a pass, but I find it interesting that Sid's deficiencies are whitewashed over. He's still young and hopefully will get better, but let's not make excuses for him by saying "well, Gonchar is worse".


Those turnovers wouldn't be because he's an 18 year old rookie, would they? I hope not because lord knows 18 year old rookies NEVER improve on any aspect of their game. Thirty-something vets are much more likely to change their games, right?


Notice I said "anytime soon"? I didn't say never. Chill.

I was reacting to someone saying he wouldn't make the mistake again because he'd learn from it. He will eventually, but since he is already the top turnover guy on the team I don't expect him to change that quick.
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Re: like turnovers never happen with the penguins... :(

Postby netwolf on Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:19 pm

BCHill wrote:Notice I said "anytime soon"? I didn't say never. Chill.

I was reacting to someone saying he wouldn't make the mistake again because he'd learn from it. He will eventually, but since he is already the top turnover guy on the team I don't expect him to change that quick.


It sounded to me like you thought there was no hope for him correcting it. If that was not the intent, I apologize for the slight amount of sarcasm. :)

I would also suggest Crosby is up there in turnovers because he's the only guy that can generate offense. Everyone else's turnovers are lower because they don't find themselves in a position to make plays.
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Postby BCHill on Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:26 pm

There is a certain amount of truth to that. Guys who carry the puck are in a position to have a pass picked off. Guys who don't won't. No mistakes means you are playing it safe. Playing safe doesn't always win hockey games even if it keeps the fans off your back. ;)

The same can be said at the other end of the ice. Players who are visible when a goal is scored against often get the blame for not stopping the guy with the puck when in reality they at least were in the mix trying to do the job defensively.

I really wish fans would stop trying to be the coach and picking apart every little thing that happens out on the ice. The coaches know what they expect out of the players. Fans should be looking for the good and not the bad. Ditto for fans playing GM. Why do fans pay so much attention to what a player makes and whether or not he is earning his pay? Sometimes we, as fans, think we are better informed to make decisions than those in charge.

Enjoy the games. Leave the coaching and GMing to those who are paid to do it.
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Postby BurghThing on Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:50 pm

Many of Sid's turnover result from passes to where normal hockey players SHOULD be, but the turnstyle of stiffs we trot out on his wing AREN'T.

If Sid had one winger who would go to the front of the net a'la Robbie Brown, he'd be tearing up the rookie assist record.
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