Pierre saying Malkin to Kings for Kopitar, Dustin Brown

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Postby farnham16 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:49 pm

crzymike wrote:wow 20 pages? :shock:


Seriously man.
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Postby crzymike on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:56 pm

farnham16 wrote:
crzymike wrote:wow 20 pages? :shock:


Seriously man.
lol Now 21 pages and no I wont keep counting (unless this thread hits 30) :D
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Postby penny lane on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:07 pm

I hope it doesn't overtake Recchi's Rug! 8-)
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:19 pm

Has anyone stopped to consider why LA would trade Kopitar, Brown, and possibly Johnson to us when they can make an offer to Geno after this season?

Also, LA needs a goaltender. I'd be more worried about the going after Fleury.

After this draft, LA is sitting where we were two years ago...with a ton of young talent. Putting the shoe on the other foot, I'm not so sure I would trade my young talent (that will be cap friendly for a few years) when I could just plug in a couple of solid veterans and maybe get a lucky cup run.
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Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:22 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:Has anyone stopped to consider why LA would trade Kopitar, Brown, and possibly Johnson to us when they can make an offer to Geno after this season?


Because Penguins will match any offer. How we deal with it later is another subject. But we are not letting Malkin get away for 4 draft picks.
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Postby doublem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:23 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:Has anyone stopped to consider why LA would trade Kopitar, Brown, and possibly Johnson to us when they can make an offer to Geno after this season?

Also, LA needs a goaltender. I'd be more worried about the going after Fleury.

After this draft, LA is sitting where we were two years ago...with a ton of young talent. Putting the shoe on the other foot, I'm not so sure I would trade my young talent (that will be cap friendly for a few years) when I could just plug in a couple of solid veterans and maybe get a lucky cup run.


They have a goalie they drafter Bernier two years ago.
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:31 pm

doublem wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Has anyone stopped to consider why LA would trade Kopitar, Brown, and possibly Johnson to us when they can make an offer to Geno after this season?

Also, LA needs a goaltender. I'd be more worried about the going after Fleury.

After this draft, LA is sitting where we were two years ago...with a ton of young talent. Putting the shoe on the other foot, I'm not so sure I would trade my young talent (that will be cap friendly for a few years) when I could just plug in a couple of solid veterans and maybe get a lucky cup run.


They have a goalie they drafter Bernier two years ago.


And he's projected to play in the QMJHL next year.

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:35 pm

Do you sign Geno and Sid to Ovechkin type deals?

13 years, 124 million = $9.5m cap hit for 13 years?

In the long run, since they are established stars, it would seem it would work out. In 4 years, if Ovechkin, Sid, or Malkin weren't signed, I could see someone offering the cap max for them.

It gives cap relief for your team by having your stars locked up, but the relief will not come until years down the road.
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Postby HeyNow71871929 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:47 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:Bottomline is, if it come down to Hossa or Malkin, you let Hossa walk. Malkin is much more valuable right now and will be in the future. Gino makes us a 2 line team, Hossa makes us a one line team.


HeyNow,

I know we've gone round and round on this topic, but it does not come down to Hossa or Malkin....it comes down to Malkin or Hossa.......and a whole lot more. Hossa walks for nothing. Malkin doesn't.

Keeping Malkin doesn't ensure us two effective scoring lines because it wasn't the case until Hossa was brought in. After Crosby returned from injury, 90% of his production was on the PP. Until Hossa arrived, the first line was virtually non-existent at even strength.

This whole issue comes down to whether or not you believe; (1) the Pens will be able to keep Malkin and Crosby long term (i.e. Malkin wants to play in Crosby's shadow), (2) if the Pens would be wise to devote so much salary to two players and (3) will doing so prevent them from filling other keys roles, and in doing so ultimately hurt the franchise.

Like I've said before, to me, this league is now about depth and balance. I see Malkin as a guy who will want his own team to lead. I also think it will be in the Penguins best interest to move Malkin long before he forces them to. The benefit of considering a trade now is obviously not only to maximize the return, but also to keep Hossa, who may well be a crucial piece to the Pens in coming years. I'm not sure I see the sense of bringing in a guy like Kopitar though; I think the Pens would be wiser to look for players that could be signed long term for more reasonable contracts, i.e. Johnson and O'Sullivan. LA certainly is a logical partner, with the #2 pick and young guys like Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson, but for all we know McGuire is spreading this rumor after reading these boards.

Either way, it will be an interesting summer.


Well, once and if the time comes for Malkin to move we will worry about it then. And as for you saying that Hossa goes for nothing and Malkin would go for quality players. I think that is a false statement. If Hossa goes, we more than likely will get Malone and Orpik back, with leftover money to still acquire a Stillman, Rolston, or Straka. And I still don't understand why can't the Penguins lock up Malkin and Crosby long terms and invest money in those two? We have enough money to sign these two long term and still have money leftover to put a solid team around 87 and 71. Tampa Bay didn't succeed in that because their management was unwilling to spend to the cap and plus Malkin and Crosby > Lecavalier and St.Louis. Ottawa has a similar situation, they have 4 players (Heatley, Spezza, Alfredsson, and Fisher) that they locked up 29 million between. I think the Penguins can give Crosby and Malkin a combined salary of 18-19 million and still have enough to keep a solid core together.
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Postby Pipes Hochuli on Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:55 pm

i dont think that if we do not resign hossa we will have enough to get malone, orpik, and one of the players you mentioned. if we did do that, we wouldnt need to resign eaton and hopefully we could get sydor's contract dumped freeing up 3.5 mill for another winger for sid. so it would be the steel city line, and then crosby, one of the guys you mentioned, and then another ufa withe the dumped D contracts. i wouldnt necessarily be oppossed to that. i'd just be worried that the asking prices for maloney and brooks would be too high.
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Postby Maestro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:03 pm

Rohit wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
crzymike wrote:
farnham16 wrote:
Maestro wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:I don't see how that helps the Pens. Malkin's the best player involved in that deal, and while Brown is signed to a nice bargain deal, Kopitar is going to be very expensive himself. I like Kopitar and Brown, but it still seems like a quantity over quality move that dilutes your talent and doesn't give you THAT much of a cap relief in the long run.

But, it does give you an AWESOME left wing (Brown) for Crosby and Hossa, and a very nearly equal 2nd line center (Kopitar) to replace Malkin. Kopitar would be a better cap hit for the foreseeable future too.


Kopitar's not even in the same league as Evgeni Malkin. He is nowhere nearly as equal as Malkin. What has Kopitar done so far in 2 years that has been so marvelous? He had 61 points his first season and 77 this past season. Malkin had more points his rookie season than Kopitar did either of his 2 seasons. And Evgeni Malkin is fully capable of carrying a team by himself to the playoffs and beyond. He is a one man show. For anyone to suggest that there is equal trade value coming back to Pittsburgh for Malkin is absolutely insane. I just don't get people like you.


Wow, someome's drank the Geno Koolaid. :)


I really don't think its Geno Koolaid. I can't believe people on here would trade him and think that getting Brown and Kopitar would be equal value, because it would be highway robbery for LA.
I wonder if these same people who believe these trades of Geno are actually worthwhile, would feel the same way if it was Sid instead.


AMEN CRZYMIKE. I was just going to post that too. People like some on these board just make you ask yourself questions. Is there that much difference between Malkin and Crosby? Do people really love Crosby that much more than Malkin? Is Crosby really that much better than Malkin? Does the language barrier hve anything to do with the bias against Malkin?


crosby an malkin are once in a lifetime talents

like one of you two said: any trade involving malkin is bad for the penguins

here is what i dont understand: why are people so bent out of shape NOW about cap trouble? Either way if you have to trade geno you are going to lose, so why not wait until you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that there is NO WAY IN HELL that it is possible to keep geno

right now people are talking about fair return for malkin and most scenarios end up being 3 good players for 1 great player. at the end of the day signing those 3 good players would be just as difficult as signing geno so either way you are screwed cap wise, so why wouldnt you just stick with geno who you know is the real deal

dont forget that crosby and malkin are still nhl young even though they play like vets. imagine how good they are going to be once they actually are vets.

i dont care what people say about tampa bay because geno and crosby >>>>vinny and st louis when it comes to their prime

imo if shero can manage to keep fleury, crosby, and malkin and then somehow fill the rest of the slots will the "right guys" this team will ALWAYS be competitive, maybe not in the cup winning dynasty sense, but as long as you have crosby and malkin on your team with solid goaltending you will have a chance to win every single game you play

the same cannot be said of any other player that you would get in return for a guy like geno and why it makes NO SENSE at all to talk about trading him at this stage in his career.


I don't think they should trade Malkin, but Kopitar, Brown and the Kings #1 pick this year and next would not be too bad a haul and if you keep Hossa, Orpik and Malone + Staal long term with that payload I think the Pens would still be pretty good over the next 8 years.
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Postby Pipes Hochuli on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:18 pm

so you'd rather trade malkin before his entry level contract ended?
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:26 pm

Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html
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Postby Scott on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:32 pm

HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:Sometimes I'd rather trade Crosby than Malkin.... Malkin is the best of the 3 imo


I think so too. And if he isn't already the best in the world, Gino Malkin will be the best in a year or two. I have never seen, since the days of Mario, a guy who is so explosive with the puck. Even more explosive than Crosby is.


There is a player in Washington I think is just a tad more explosive than # 71.

I also think Sidney is more explosive with the puck than Malkin...but Malkin does have a much better slapshot.
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:36 pm

Scott wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:Sometimes I'd rather trade Crosby than Malkin.... Malkin is the best of the 3 imo


I think so too. And if he isn't already the best in the world, Gino Malkin will be the best in a year or two. I have never seen, since the days of Mario, a guy who is so explosive with the puck. Even more explosive than Crosby is.


There is a player in Washington I think is just a tad more explosive than # 71.

I also think Sidney is more explosive with the puck than Malkin...but Malkin does have a much better slapshot.


The most explosive player I can remember was Bure. He was unbelievable. Selanne when he first came into the league as well.
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Postby Kovy27 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:37 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
Scott wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:Sometimes I'd rather trade Crosby than Malkin.... Malkin is the best of the 3 imo


I think so too. And if he isn't already the best in the world, Gino Malkin will be the best in a year or two. I have never seen, since the days of Mario, a guy who is so explosive with the puck. Even more explosive than Crosby is.


There is a player in Washington I think is just a tad more explosive than # 71.

I also think Sidney is more explosive with the puck than Malkin...but Malkin does have a much better slapshot.


The most explosive player I can remember was Bure. He was unbelievable. Selanne when he first came into the league as well.


I actually agree with you on those 2. Bure's speed and shot were one of a kind...too bad he got hurt and had to call it quits. Selanne has lost speed but still has one hell of a snapshot.
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Postby Maestro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:40 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html


King's fans have certainly drank the KoolAid - Brown and a pick? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

As far as the actual trade - I think Kpitar + Brown + 2 #1s would be too good to pass up - those 2 + this year's high #1 I'd think long and hard about it - anything less, I'd fart into the speaker phone.
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Postby Bob McKenzie on Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:55 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Scott wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:Sometimes I'd rather trade Crosby than Malkin.... Malkin is the best of the 3 imo


I think so too. And if he isn't already the best in the world, Gino Malkin will be the best in a year or two. I have never seen, since the days of Mario, a guy who is so explosive with the puck. Even more explosive than Crosby is.


There is a player in Washington I think is just a tad more explosive than # 71.

I also think Sidney is more explosive with the puck than Malkin...but Malkin does have a much better slapshot.


The most explosive player I can remember was Bure. He was unbelievable. Selanne when he first came into the league as well.


I actually agree with you on those 2. Bure's speed and shot were one of a kind...too bad he got hurt and had to call it quits. Selanne has lost speed but still has one hell of a snapshot.


For ol' times memory sake, check out the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th goal that Bure has in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_p_kMMc5E&NR=1
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Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:12 pm

crzymike wrote:wow 20 pages? :shock:


I know it's crazy..I'm absent from this site for 1 day and there's a 21 page trade Malkin thread!
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Postby Pitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:33 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html

But, I thought Malkin was the shizzz. Seems Kings fans hold Anze to just as high a standard.
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Postby LdubsRoot23 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:57 pm

Pitts wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html

But, I thought Malkin was the shizzz. Seems Kings fans hold Anze to just as high a standard.


I love how people act like Dustin Brown and Kopitar are dog meat. Nobody in their right mind thinks they are better then Geno, but if Dustin Brown pots 30 goals, is a righty, and the biggest hitter in the league at THAT age...he'll more than outplay his long-term contract.

As was said before, Geno is a much better center than Kopitar, but the kid is also still very young, an all-star, will never cost what Geno does, and fits very nicely in that 2nd center slot.

We all know you can't keep Sid, Geno, Fleury, Staal, etc. forever, so Shero can never win in these situations.
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Postby crzymike on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:27 pm

LdubsRoot23 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html

But, I thought Malkin was the shizzz. Seems Kings fans hold Anze to just as high a standard.


I love how people act like Dustin Brown and Kopitar are dog meat. Nobody in their right mind thinks they are better then Geno, but if Dustin Brown pots 30 goals, is a righty, and the biggest hitter in the league at THAT age...he'll more than outplay his long-term contract.

As was said before, Geno is a much better center than Kopitar, but the kid is also still very young, an all-star, will never cost what Geno does, and fits very nicely in that 2nd center slot.

We all know you can't keep Sid, Geno, Fleury, Staal, etc. forever, so Shero can never win in these situations.
Actually we dont all believe we can't keep the ''big four''. I believe it's very possible if the players that accompany them are values similar to Sykora. Even with Hossa we'd still be able to keep our core intact. We might have to move Whitney but that's a small price to pay in the scheme of things. A much more viable option then trading Geno, thats for damn sure.
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Postby HeyNow71871929 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:30 pm

LdubsRoot23 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Seems that all the fans at letsgokings.com think this trade is as bad as most of us do.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/f4/has_a ... 79315.html

But, I thought Malkin was the shizzz. Seems Kings fans hold Anze to just as high a standard.


I love how people act like Dustin Brown and Kopitar are dog meat. Nobody in their right mind thinks they are better then Geno, but if Dustin Brown pots 30 goals, is a righty, and the biggest hitter in the league at THAT age...he'll more than outplay his long-term contract.

As was said before, Geno is a much better center than Kopitar, but the kid is also still very young, an all-star, will never cost what Geno does, and fits very nicely in that 2nd center slot.

We all know you can't keep Sid, Geno, Fleury, Staal, etc. forever, so Shero can never win in these situations.


You can think whatever the hell you want. And a lot of players compared to Malkin are dog meat. I just don't understand why people like you honestly believe there is equal value that would come in return for 71. Thank God Ray Shero is the GM and not posters like you.
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Postby meecrofilm on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:
Scott wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Maagwa wrote:Sometimes I'd rather trade Crosby than Malkin.... Malkin is the best of the 3 imo


I think so too. And if he isn't already the best in the world, Gino Malkin will be the best in a year or two. I have never seen, since the days of Mario, a guy who is so explosive with the puck. Even more explosive than Crosby is.


There is a player in Washington I think is just a tad more explosive than # 71.

I also think Sidney is more explosive with the puck than Malkin...but Malkin does have a much better slapshot.



The most explosive player I can remember was Bure. He was unbelievable. Selanne when he first came into the league as well.


I actually agree with you on those 2. Bure's speed and shot were one of a kind...too bad he got hurt and had to call it quits. Selanne has lost speed but still has one hell of a snapshot.


For ol' times memory sake, check out the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th goal that Bure has in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_p_kMMc5E&NR=1


The Finnish Flash, and The Russian Rocket. The extra-awesome players always have alliteration worked into their nicknames somehow =p

And goal #4 = sick.

Crosby centering Selanne and Bure in their primes.... now that line would be hard to see at some points.
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Postby HeyNow71871929 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:36 pm

I'm still wondering what the same people who are saying trading Malkin wouldn't be a bad thing would say if Crosby and Malkin were to replace roles.
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