Pierre saying Malkin to Kings for Kopitar, Dustin Brown

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:41 pm

I can never understand it when people that acknowledge rumors tear into the people that started them. They wouldn't gain any steam if you didn't talk about them, so if you are so against rumors why do you even read/listen to them.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,955
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Postby Rocco on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:43 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:Well, this is the first "rumor" that has any credence to me. Pierre and Rejean are good friends. Yu have to at least wonder where McGuire would get such info. But is it such a bad deal anyway? I'm not sure. I'd have to research it more.


It's a quarter for two dimes. I'd say that's a bad deal.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 34,773
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Postby bill from turtle creek on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:44 pm

The Kings would have to add at least 2 first round picks plus a prospect to get this deal done. It's not two dimes for a quarter, it's more like a two dollar bills for a $50. McGuire knows better than to spread such a ridiculous rumor.
bill from turtle creek
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Serenity Now, Serenity Now.

Postby HeyNow71871929 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:44 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I can never understand it when people that acknowledge rumors tear into the people that started them. They wouldn't gain any steam if you didn't talk about them, so if you are so against rumors why do you even read/listen to them.


Because obviously when a certain rumor about a player (who is a top 3 talent in the world) getting traded pops up, it turns into common interest to find out what the rumor is and how legit it is. And if it turns out to be as bogus as this one is, people are gonna let it known.

It's the nature of humans, get used to it.
HeyNow71871929
 

Postby wondermoose on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:49 pm

Crosby and Malkin are irreplaceable. You'll never find a one-two punch like that in the league again. Kopitar and Brown could be great, but you don't give Malkin away when he's 21.
wondermoose
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,850
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:18 am

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

HeyNow71871929 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I can never understand it when people that acknowledge rumors tear into the people that started them. They wouldn't gain any steam if you didn't talk about them, so if you are so against rumors why do you even read/listen to them.


Because obviously when a certain rumor about a player (who is a top 3 talent in the world) getting traded pops up, it turns into common interest to find out what the rumor is and how legit it is. And if it turns out to be as bogus as this one is, people are gonna let it known.

It's the nature of humans, get used to it.


Exactly, and like I said, I don't understand it. People complain to great length about how something doesn't matter, but if they didn't complain about it, it would go away almost instantly.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 50,955
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:52 pm

Image

Image
Last edited by Bob McKenzie on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bob McKenzie
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,975
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:07 am
Location: "I swear I will sign the contract, Mario." *fingers crossed*

Postby Slick, Arnold on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:53 pm

Easton wrote:
Slick, Arnold wrote:You would think that the Pens would at least hang on to Gino for this year at $3 Mil, and then trade him after that if they can't negotiate a contract. Trading him now doesn't make any sense.


I agree, but trading him at all wouldn't make any sense.

This trade doesn't even make any damn sense. Depending on how well Kopitar does next year, I'm willing to bet he gets at least 6 mil, and he's not even in Geno's stratosphere. He's good, but not Malkin-good.

Dustin brown would be a great winger for us, but so would a lot of other people -- and none of them justify trading Malkin for.


Naturally, he's not getting traded.
Slick, Arnold
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:57 am

Postby newarenanow on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:53 pm

JailNoise wrote:I can't wait til Malkin is re-signed this summer and all this BS trade talk can end. Kopitar and Brown would end up costing the Pens just as much.


But that cost is between two good players, not one. And I don't think they are both $5M players.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,117
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Postby KG on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:57 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:The Kings would have to add at least 2 first round picks plus a prospect to get this deal done. It's not two dimes for a quarter, it's more like a two dollar bills for a $50. McGuire knows better than to spread such a ridiculous rumor.


Agreed...something like this I would consider:

Malkin, Sydor for Kopitar, Brown, Johnson
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,966
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Postby Va Beach Pens Fan on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:59 pm

Come on boys, you know exactly what this is....

The finals are over now, it's 10 days from the draft, and three weeks from the start of free agency....

All of the "insiders" and the rumor websites are starting their respective hype machines now to bump up their hits, and how they're "SO BUSY" with all of the rumors...

Same thing every year...
Va Beach Pens Fan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 793
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:59 pm

newarenanow wrote:
JailNoise wrote:I can't wait til Malkin is re-signed this summer and all this BS trade talk can end. Kopitar and Brown would end up costing the Pens just as much.


But that cost is between two good players, not one. And I don't think they are both $5M players.


Kopitar will probably get $6 million easy when his contract is over. He is a RFA next year like Malkin. If Martin Havlat is worth $6 million, Kopitar is worth $6 million or a bit more. Dustin Brown is signed very reasonable through 2011/2012 at $2.6m, $2.45m, $3.5m, and $3.5m.
Bob McKenzie
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,975
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:07 am
Location: "I swear I will sign the contract, Mario." *fingers crossed*

Postby littlemoonboot on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:07 pm

Pierre is not turtley enough for the Turtle Club and should be escorted to the door.
littlemoonboot
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,417
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:04 pm
Location: @burgyhockey

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:09 pm

JailNoise wrote:I can't wait til Malkin is re-signed this summer and all this BS trade talk can end. Kopitar and Brown would end up costing the Pens just as much.


I think it's just a rumor, but I wouldn't scoff at such a deal if it were presented to me, and for many reasons.

*Dustin Brown is a tremendous young player, the leagues leading hitter, and he was on pace to score 38 this past season. Just about the same pace Hossa managed in a Penguins jersey (so far). Brown has a nasty righty shot, and can play multiple roles just like Malone. His cap hit is 3.175 through 2012. If he is going to be the next Brendan Morrow like I think he will be, that is an absolute steal of a deal.

*Anze Kopitar is a bigger, but much less talented version of Malkin. He does not have the game breaking domination ability of Malkin, which is why I don't think the Kings would scoff at any deal for Malkin either. Kopitar is better at draws right now but thinking long term I know both players will both be about the same for their careers. Probably around 50-53% on an average season. His contract demands will be high but not as demanding as Malkins would be. With Gonchar and Sykora off the books in another year they would have a much better chance of keeping this 19 year old locked up than they would Geno.

*The best part about a deal like this is that no matter what you are going to get a great, affordable winger for many years. And if Kopitars price is too high, they could trade him for 2 more solid young players down the line.

There really is no way for the Pens to lose, it's just a matter of how they want the talent to be spread out and where and when they want to pay for it.

It's not like you have another 1st rounder and 3 top prospects to deal later on, those are all represented by Hossa. But despite all of this I would let hiim go and pursue other snipers and try and retain Orpik. Malkin should be locked up for a long time as well.
PenguinHockeyFanatic
 

Postby czwalga on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 pm

You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we atleast have him next year.
czwalga
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,476
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:36 pm

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:15 pm

czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.
PenguinHockeyFanatic
 

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:17 pm

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.


If it comes down to Malkin and Hossa, I let Hossa walk. It is easier to find a winger that can score some goals than it is to find a game-breaking player such as Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin.
Bob McKenzie
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,975
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:07 am
Location: "I swear I will sign the contract, Mario." *fingers crossed*

Postby czwalga on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:18 pm

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.



You're missing the point. If you trade him now or next year his value will likely be equal or close. There will be 10 teams willing to pay the max for him this year OR next. Why trade him now when you can have him for a year at a 4mill cap hit.

Shero would just have to make up his mind now that's whats going to happen, but if he decided to trade him now i guess his decision would already be made up; so thats not a problem.
czwalga
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,476
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:36 pm

Postby Rocco on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:21 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.


If it comes down to Malkin and Hossa, I let Hossa walk. It is easier to find a winger that can score some goals than it is to find a game-breaking player such as Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin.


Not to mention that Malkin is younger, better, and still likely to improve whereas Hossa is older and likely to enter the decline phase of his career. If the choice is between Malkin and Hossa, it's not really a choice at all. I think the Pens have to pay Malkin and try to find value players in other positions as opposed to moving Malkin to pay for above-average players in other spots. Elite talent just isn't that readily available; it's folly to trade elite players and get above-average players in return.
Rocco
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 34,773
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:34 am
Location: Manor Farm

Postby Bob McKenzie on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:22 pm

I just don't see the Pens getting any closer to the cup next year by trading Malkin for Kopitar and Brown.

Isn't the point of signing Hossa to try and win it all soon?

Brown is a RW. So, him coming to the Pens would mean Sykora is a 3rd line RW (not the kind of player you want on the 3rd line).
Bob McKenzie
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,975
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:07 am
Location: "I swear I will sign the contract, Mario." *fingers crossed*

Postby Kaizer on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:24 pm

NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO.
Kaizer
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,278
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:02 am
Location: Crazy Town

Postby KG on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:26 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:I just don't see the Pens getting any closer to the cup next year by trading Malkin for Kopitar and Brown.

Isn't the point of signing Hossa to try and win it all soon?

Brown is a RW. So, him coming to the Pens would mean Sykora is a 3rd line RW (not the kind of player you want on the 3rd line).


I agree...If the pens can re-sign Hossa, I would think they wouldn't deal Malkin now. They will make another cup run, hopefully this coming season and deal with the Malkin situation after this year...
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,966
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Postby doublem on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:26 pm

This rumor was brought up about 6 months ago. These rumors are not logical. Why would Shero dramatical change his approach to the team overnight.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:27 pm

czwalga wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.



You're missing the point. If you trade him now or next year his value will likely be equal or close. There will be 10 teams willing to pay the max for him this year OR next. Why trade him now when you can have him for a year at a 4mill cap hit.

Shero would just have to make up his mind now that's whats going to happen, but if he decided to trade him now i guess his decision would already be made up; so thats not a problem.


I get what you are saying and I agree that holding onto him as long as possible is smart. But the problem I see--and maybe I'm assuming way too much here--is that Malkin would HAVE to be dealt because every GM in the league is going to see that the Penguins can't afford to have 3 players taking up half of the payroll. So whereas right this second it would be a "luxury" to deal Malkin but at the end of next season it would be a "necessity". So in theory GM's would know that they could give up less in return.
PenguinHockeyFanatic
 

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:29 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
czwalga wrote:You dont trade malkin till next year IF you ever do it. You're trading him away when basically you can get the same type of deals next year.

If he gets traded he's going to ask for the max, this year or next; whoever trades for him will know this and expect it. So if we sign him to the max next year then trade him... we at least have him next year.


I would agree except for one thing. What if they want to sign Hossa? If they sign him and really go for another strong Cup caliber team this season then they will be left with little room to negotiate for Malkin. Especially because Gonchar will still be on the books for that season and Fleury and Staal will bump up the cap a lot too.

So even thgouh his value would be just as good if not better if they waited, the economic feasibility of retaining him could put the Pens in a desperate situation to almost "dump" a contract, and I don't ever want to see that word used again.


If it comes down to Malkin and Hossa, I let Hossa walk. It is easier to find a winger that can score some goals than it is to find a game-breaking player such as Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin.


I agree 110%. But on the other hand that's exactly why you can get a Lindrosian return for one player such as that. It's interesting to think about the possibilities but you simply can't fail if you keep Malkin over Hossa.
PenguinHockeyFanatic
 

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron
e-mail