Pierre saying Malkin to Kings for Kopitar, Dustin Brown

[Pipes Hochuli]

if we resign hossa, then this trade wouldn't be made until this time next year....is that the logic we're basing this possibility on?

thats what would make sense to me at least.

[newarenanow]

Not once have I hate on Crosby, he is simply one of the best, but to be completely arrogant and neglectful towards what Malkin did this year is just ridiculous in my opinion. And what I am saying is that what Malkin did this season is jsut a glimpse.

Please tell us, where did anyone neglect what Malkin did this year.

We started a conversation about a "possible" trade scenario involving Malkin and you, in your lust for him, turned it into a p issing contest about who is better -- Crosby or Malkin.

Some of us are trying to have an educated conversation about real trade possibilities.

Agreed. People were talking about a possible trade scenario, and some people took as "hating" on Malkin, and not giving him any respect.

I don't see it that way. I love Malkin. I wish him and Crosby would be Pens for ever. Malkin had an awesome season. It has nothing to do with his performance. He is the Pens MVP this year IMO. It has to do with the salary cap. That is all.

[duke66]

...yes it's clear this thread has totally gone to seed...and i've already ranted about my views, so i'm not going to re-hash...but it has become abundantly clear to me, nothing, and i mean nothing will ever make a good chunk of the posters on this site happy EVER...pens suck, boo hoo, pens rebuild, not fast enough, pens make playoffs, we suck losing to the sens in 5, pens come within 2 wins of the cup, trade the best/second best player in the world because the team won't be able to afford him...like it's your money to worry about spending...

I'm not upset. I love this team, this season, and Malkin. It's not about spending the money, it's about fitting salaries under the cap and still fielding a complete team. it's reality.

...dude i'm on board with u, i never singled anyone out, more of a general feel about how people react on this board...i know who the posters are with good knowledge and good responses (most of the time! )...and bottom line, everyone is entitled to their opinion, something i lose sight of myself...guilty as charged!!...it just irks me to think that some are in favour of trading malkin (for good business purposes or not)...this is a once in a lifetime talent, that will bring back 50 cents on the dollar if they deal him...but i guess it's not really in our hands now is it...

[kirk]

Why is it that Sid needs a great winger while Geno can be instrumental in turning a guy like Sykora play like he did 8 years ago and a guy like Malone into someone who likely has priced himself out of Pittsburgh? Honestly, it makes me wonder how this year would have played out if Geno, rather than Sid, had missed 1/3 of the year with a high ankle sprain.

What? Sid's been with crappy wingers (mostly Recchi and a checking forward) until the Hossa trade.

Malkin had Staal his first year and this year Malone and Sykora, which are very good wingers for a playmaking center.

I've mostly disagreed with the negative posts on Malkin in this thread but that was just too off in the other direction, imo.

Let's see . . .

Staal only has thrived on Geno's wing. He was **** with Sid.

Sykora was **** with Sid and then time warped back to Sykora circa 2000 on Geno's wing.

Malone was spotty on Sid's wing and probably has priced himself out of Pittsburgh after half a season on Geno's wing.

Perhaps all of this begs the question as to why Sid needs Hossa?

The answer IMO is that Sid plays the game at two speeds, high tempo and higher tempo. A great player like Hossa (or even Malkin out of position) will get points with Sid. A guy who plays up tempo hockey, like an Army or a Talbot, can play above himself when he gets hot hands. Sykora didn't fit that. Malone and Staal couldn't keep up. Malkin, by contrast, adapts his game to best utilize his wingers and to make 2.5M type of guys into 5M performers.

[pronovost19]

I have more hockey intelligence in my left nut than you do in your brain.

...that response leads me to believe u are barely out of high school...but i digress...ok u make a point as well, and i'm willing to acknowledge when people make a point, u know that's what adults do...yes i really have no more right to bash malkin trade rumours/speculation, then u and others have to actually discuss the matter...and let me clear some things up, i don't support malkin over crosby, or vice versa, i support the penguins as a team...

...the whole point i was trying to make, was, it would be foolish IMO for the pens to trade away malkin at this stage in his career...obviously u feel differently about it and that's cool...but sometimes i think people like to post outrageous s*** just so they can come on after the fact and brag if they are right...u may think that's what i may do as well...but i know better...

If 11 years out of high school is barely out...then yeah, I guess so.

The rumor is just that...A RUMOR. It gets more credible when it is delivered from someone inside the hockey world. I heard this rumor right after the Stanley Cup was handed out. I don't get why people are on high horses or not fans because they want to talk about the POSSIBILITY of a player being moved. Explain that to me.

Exactly Kovy...and the what if scenarios lead us all to that happy place...what would we do if we were the GM...

[Rohit]

Malkin is a player that any team can build an entire offense around. Malkin will run the powerplay. Malkin will make his linemates significantly better. Malkin will score the big goal. And Malkin will annually threaten for the Art Ross trophy baring injury. Just like Sid. Every GM in the league wants this type of player on there team.

Giving up a player like that for *at best* the same quality 2nd line spread over two players is folly to me. If I'm giving up an extremely young, all-world, build-your-offense-around forward like Malkin, then I want an extremely young, all-world, build-your-defense-around defensemen *and* a decent 2nd line replacement.

The fact of the matter is. You just aren't going to get equal value in return if you trade Malkin. Whether you trade him straight up for another player or you trade him for a package, there is simply no equal trade value you can get in return.

exactly

[KG]

if we resign hossa, then this trade wouldn't be made until this time next year....is that the logic we're basing this possibility on?

thats what would make sense to me at least.

That is my position as well...I say sign Hossa, keep Malkin, make the run this year and settle up next year after the cup run!...

[Pitts]

Pitts brought up the fact that Malkin getting traded would be better for Sid, because he would get more ice time. And I just wanted to know if Sid actually wanted to be a one man show, if Sid actually wanted more ice time by not sharing the spotlight with someone else.

All I said was it would "allow" more ice time for Sid. Never did I try to answer for him.

Well the simple reason that you suggested something like that made me voice my opinion to go against what you said. I have no control over what other people say and they chose to run with it. I believe earlier in this thread I also clearly stated that I don't want to turn this into a Malkin vs. Crosby thread because we are blessed and honored to have both of these guys playing for our team.

You've attacked nearly every post in every one of these threads with a "Malkin is G R E A T, leave him alone" response, then caused it to degrade into a Malkin vs. Crosby shooting gallery. I have not.

[kirk]

My point is that Malkin + average wingers is far better than Kopitar and Brown + average winger in terms of production, and a wash in terms of salary.

I think it would be more along the likes of:

Brown/Crosby/Hossa
Malone/Kopitar/Sykora
Winger/Staal/Ruutu

Blah, blah, blah...

And, can Kopitar do for Malone and Sykora even one half of what Geno did? After all, Sid at various times played with those two, and things didn't go so well.

[HeyNow71871929]

Why is it that Sid needs a great winger while Geno can be instrumental in turning a guy like Sykora play like he did 8 years ago and a guy like Malone into someone who likely has priced himself out of Pittsburgh? Honestly, it makes me wonder how this year would have played out if Geno, rather than Sid, had missed 1/3 of the year with a high ankle sprain.

What? Sid's been with crappy wingers (mostly Recchi and a checking forward) until the Hossa trade.

Malkin had Staal his first year and this year Malone and Sykora, which are very good wingers for a playmaking center.

I've mostly disagreed with the negative posts on Malkin in this thread but that was just too off in the other direction, imo.

Let's see . . .

Staal only has thrived on Geno's wing. He was **** with Sid.

Sykora was **** with Sid and then time warped back to Sykora circa 2000 on Geno's wing.

Malone was spotty on Sid's wing and probably has priced himself out of Pittsburgh after half a season on Geno's wing.

Perhaps all of this begs the question as to why Sid needs Hossa?

The answer IMO is that Sid plays the game at two speeds, high tempo and higher tempo. A great player like Hossa (or even Malkin out of position) will get points with Sid. A guy who plays up tempo hockey, like an Army or a Talbot, can play above himself when he gets hot hands. Sykora didn't fit that. Malone and Staal couldn't keep up. Malkin, by contrast, adapts his game to best utilize his wingers and to make 2.5M type of guys into 5M performers.

Correct. Basically, Crosby's wingers have to play up to Crosby's strengths and be able to keep up with Crosby. As for wingers playing alongside Malkin, Malkin can adjust his game so as to better fit his wingers and bring the absolute best out of them. Hence, Sid needs a top tier winger, whereas Malkin can play along side second tier wingers and make them look like top tier wingers.

[purelebo84]

Again I say... it is not going to happen. Period. The end.

[Pipes Hochuli]

My point is that Malkin + average wingers is far better than Kopitar and Brown + average winger in terms of production, and a wash in terms of salary.

I think it would be more along the likes of:

Brown/Crosby/Hossa
Malone/Kopitar/Sykora
Winger/Staal/Ruutu

Blah, blah, blah...

And, can Kopitar do for Malone and Sykora even one half of what Geno did? After all, Sid at various times played with those two, and things didn't go so well.

in theory, maybe not....but imagine what sidney can do will a full year on that line as opposed to colbstrong and everyone else that tried to play on his line. no one will know until it happens, IF it happens

[Rohit]

I have more hockey intelligence in my left nut than you do in your brain.

...that response leads me to believe u are barely out of high school...but i digress...ok u make a point as well, and i'm willing to acknowledge when people make a point, u know that's what adults do...yes i really have no more right to bash malkin trade rumours/speculation, then u and others have to actually discuss the matter...and let me clear some things up, i don't support malkin over crosby, or vice versa, i support the penguins as a team...

...the whole point i was trying to make, was, it would be foolish IMO for the pens to trade away malkin at this stage in his career...obviously u feel differently about it and that's cool...but sometimes i think people like to post outrageous s*** just so they can come on after the fact and brag if they are right...u may think that's what i may do as well...but i know better...

If 11 years out of high school is barely out...then yeah, I guess so.

The rumor is just that...A RUMOR. It gets more credible when it is delivered from someone inside the hockey world. I heard this rumor right after the Stanley Cup was handed out. I don't get why people are on high horses or not fans because they want to talk about the POSSIBILITY of a player being moved. Explain that to me.

Exactly Kovy...and the what if scenarios lead us all to that happy place...what would we do if we were the GM...

i dont know i dont usually call people idiots for anything they believe,

but i cant get over how LUDICROUS this malkin trade rumor is

NOT because its impossible that malkin is going to be traded for any of the given proposals, but rather because it is impossible that it is going to happen this summer...there are 0 trades involving malkin that make any semblance of sense right now

and thats why im shocked by the discussion at hand. its not so much the discussion itself, more the timing of it. 5 years from now, this whole thread becomes more credible as far as i am concerned.

[brwi]

Not once have I hate on Crosby, he is simply one of the best, but to be completely arrogant and neglectful towards what Malkin did this year is just ridiculous in my opinion. And what I am saying is that what Malkin did this season is jsut a glimpse.

Please tell us, where did anyone neglect what Malkin did this year.

We started a conversation about a "possible" trade scenario involving Malkin and you, in your lust for him, turned it into a p issing contest about who is better -- Crosby or Malkin.

Some of us are trying to have an educated conversation about real trade possibilities.

Huhhhhuhhuuhuhuhuh...you said "educated."

There is a significant herd that believes you only every trade a player because he sucks or is unlikeable. You never trade a "good guy" or a guy with loads of talent no matter what the return. You just don't do it no matter the salary cost or the needs in other areas. If you have 8 great defensemen and they are all super-swell guys and all make 4mil a year or more a year, you have to keep all of them, even if you have no decent forwards or goaltenders on your roster.

Brad

[kirk]

The problem is Malkin takes shifts and even games off sometimes. Crosby rarely if ever does that.

When Malkin is on his game he is electric. There is no doubt about that. But when is off his game, he is invisible.

Even is Crosby is off, he is always busting his @ss and making plays in other ways.

I am not going to say one is better than the other because I think it is a stupid argument. They are two different style players in my opinion.

I don't know where you are getting Malkin >

I never said Crosby hasn't done well. Hes been extraordinary. I just think that Malkin brings more to the table than Crosby does. And that he will soon become the best in the world. The explosiveness Malkin brings every time he steps on the ice is unmatchable.

Everytime Crosby steps on the ice, you feel something is going to happen for the Penguins.

Everytime Malkin steps on the ice, you feel a goal is going to happen for the Penguins.

I will repeat something that I've said several times: Malkin is the type of player who controls games. He is more likely to do that when he's playing a lot, so that he can be more into the flow of the game. This is what people mean when they say that some players get stronger as they play more during a game.

When Sid was out, Therrien had no choice but to use him like that, to give him consistent, quality shifts at even strength, to use him a little on the PK, and to put him in his comfort zone on the PP. With Sid back and Therrien's philosophy of playing fourth line guys 5-7 minutes a game, something had to give. It was Malkin, who may as well have been walking around with a name tag that said "Sidney's *****" a lot of the time.

[Troy Loney]

My point is that Malkin + average wingers is far better than Kopitar and Brown + average winger in terms of production, and a wash in terms of salary.

I think it would be more along the likes of:

Brown/Crosby/Hossa
Malone/Kopitar/Sykora
Winger/Staal/Ruutu

Blah, blah, blah...

And, can Kopitar do for Malone and Sykora even one half of what Geno did? After all, Sid at various times played with those two, and things didn't go so well.

Crosby to Chicago for Toews and Kane.

[the riddler]

I have more hockey intelligence in my left nut than you do in your brain.

...that response leads me to believe u are barely out of high school...but i digress...ok u make a point as well, and i'm willing to acknowledge when people make a point, u know that's what adults do...yes i really have no more right to bash malkin trade rumours/speculation, then u and others have to actually discuss the matter...and let me clear some things up, i don't support malkin over crosby, or vice versa, i support the penguins as a team...

...the whole point i was trying to make, was, it would be foolish IMO for the pens to trade away malkin at this stage in his career...obviously u feel differently about it and that's cool...but sometimes i think people like to post outrageous s*** just so they can come on after the fact and brag if they are right...u may think that's what i may do as well...but i know better...

If 11 years out of high school is barely out...then yeah, I guess so.

The rumor is just that...A RUMOR. It gets more credible when it is delivered from someone inside the hockey world. I heard this rumor right after the Stanley Cup was handed out. I don't get why people are on high horses or not fans because they want to talk about the POSSIBILITY of a player being moved. Explain that to me.

Exactly Kovy...and the what if scenarios lead us all to that happy place...what would we do if we were the GM...

i dont know i dont usually call people idiots for anything they believe,

but i cant get over how LUDICROUS this malkin trade rumor is

NOT because its impossible that malkin is going to be traded for any of the given proposals, but rather because it is impossible that it is going to happen this summer...there are 0 trades involving malkin that make any semblance of sense right now

and thats why im shocked by the discussion at hand. its not so much the discussion itself, more the timing of it. 5 years from now, this whole thread becomes more credible as far as i am concerned.

I stated that in another thread. They can afford to keep Malkin and Crosby right now. There will most likely be decisions to be made when they are both unrestricted. But if the Penguins would get rid of Malkin now and his upside it would possibly be one of the worst decisions in the history of the franchise.

[newarenanow]

My question is, where is Sid getting all of his assits from if no one can play with him?

[kirk]

Everytime Malkin steps on the ice, you feel a goal is going to happen for the Penguins.

Everytime?

Yeah, I wish I felt that way more during the Finals when Geno was on the ice.

In case you didn't know or notice. The kid was playing with a terrible flu. His one linemate had a broken finger and his other linemate was playing a broken nose. There isn't much a guy can do by himself against an almost inpenetrable Detroit defense. Not saying Crosby had it made, but it was much easier for him to have a healthy Hossa playing alongside him.

Everyone is banged up and hurting by the finals. I thought Crosby had the tougher match-ups anyway.

And he had Hossa, which begs the question once again: If Sid is the best player in the world, someone who can make just about any linemate better, then why does he need Hossa where someone like Malkin can be dominant with Malone and Sykora?

[duke66]

I have more hockey intelligence in my left nut than you do in your brain.

...that response leads me to believe u are barely out of high school...but i digress...ok u make a point as well, and i'm willing to acknowledge when people make a point, u know that's what adults do...yes i really have no more right to bash malkin trade rumours/speculation, then u and others have to actually discuss the matter...and let me clear some things up, i don't support malkin over crosby, or vice versa, i support the penguins as a team...

...the whole point i was trying to make, was, it would be foolish IMO for the pens to trade away malkin at this stage in his career...obviously u feel differently about it and that's cool...but sometimes i think people like to post outrageous s*** just so they can come on after the fact and brag if they are right...u may think that's what i may do as well...but i know better...

If 11 years out of high school is barely out...then yeah, I guess so.

The rumor is just that...A RUMOR. It gets more credible when it is delivered from someone inside the hockey world. I heard this rumor right after the Stanley Cup was handed out. I don't get why people are on high horses or not fans because they want to talk about the POSSIBILITY of a player being moved. Explain that to me.

Exactly Kovy...and the what if scenarios lead us all to that happy place...what would we do if we were the GM...

i dont know i dont usually call people idiots for anything they believe,

but i cant get over how LUDICROUS this malkin trade rumor is

NOT because its impossible that malkin is going to be traded for any of the given proposals, but rather because it is impossible that it is going to happen this summer...there are 0 trades involving malkin that make any semblance of sense right now

and thats why im shocked by the discussion at hand. its not so much the discussion itself, more the timing of it. 5 years from now, this whole thread becomes more credible as far as i am concerned.

...exactly rohit...in my original rant i said no need to trade geno until his UFA year (age 27)...

[Pipes Hochuli]

Everytime Malkin steps on the ice, you feel a goal is going to happen for the Penguins.

Everytime?

Yeah, I wish I felt that way more during the Finals when Geno was on the ice.

In case you didn't know or notice. The kid was playing with a terrible flu. His one linemate had a broken finger and his other linemate was playing a broken nose. There isn't much a guy can do by himself against an almost inpenetrable Detroit defense. Not saying Crosby had it made, but it was much easier for him to have a healthy Hossa playing alongside him.

Everyone is banged up and hurting by the finals. I thought Crosby had the tougher match-ups anyway.

And he had Hossa, which begs the question once again: If Sid is the best player in the world, someone who can make just about any linemate better, then why does he need Hossa where someone like Malkin can be dominant with Malone and Sykora?

yeah but there's a bit of discrepancy towards average player 1, and average player 2 who has chemistry with the said star. but chemistry doesn't score goals remember? marian hossa does.

[Steve]

Everytime Malkin steps on the ice, you feel a goal is going to happen for the Penguins.

Everytime?

Yeah, I wish I felt that way more during the Finals when Geno was on the ice.

In case you didn't know or notice. The kid was playing with a terrible flu. His one linemate had a broken finger and his other linemate was playing a broken nose. There isn't much a guy can do by himself against an almost inpenetrable Detroit defense. Not saying Crosby had it made, but it was much easier for him to have a healthy Hossa playing alongside him.

Everyone is banged up and hurting by the finals. I thought Crosby had the tougher match-ups anyway.

And he had Hossa, which begs the question once again: If Sid is the best player in the world, someone who can make just about any linemate better, then why does he need Hossa where someone like Malkin can be dominant with Malone and Sykora?

Perhaps it has everything to do with chemistry, and nothing to do with Sid being better than Malkin or vice-versa.

[HeyNow71871929]

Not once have I hate on Crosby, he is simply one of the best, but to be completely arrogant and neglectful towards what Malkin did this year is just ridiculous in my opinion. And what I am saying is that what Malkin did this season is jsut a glimpse.

Please tell us, where did anyone neglect what Malkin did this year.

We started a conversation about a "possible" trade scenario involving Malkin and you, in your lust for him, turned it into a p issing contest about who is better -- Crosby or Malkin.

Some of us are trying to have an educated conversation about real trade possibilities.

Huhhhhuhhuuhuhuhuh...you said "educated."

There is a significant herd that believes you only every trade a player because he sucks or is unlikeable. You never trade a "good guy" or a guy with loads of talent no matter what the return. You just don't do it no matter the salary cost or the needs in other areas. If you have 8 great defensemen and they are all super-swell guys and all make 4mil a year or more a year, you have to keep all of them, even if you have no decent forwards or goaltenders on your roster.

Brad

Well that isn't the situation here is it? The fact of the matter is it involves trading a elite superstar talent that is only 21 years old.

Maybe you are Kovy27's other account.

[Bob McKenzie]

My point is that Malkin + average wingers is far better than Kopitar and Brown + average winger in terms of production, and a wash in terms of salary.

I think it would be more along the likes of:

Brown/Crosby/Hossa
Malone/Kopitar/Sykora
Winger/Staal/Ruutu

Blah, blah, blah...

And, can Kopitar do for Malone and Sykora even one half of what Geno did? After all, Sid at various times played with those two, and things didn't go so well.

Crosby to Chicago for Toews and Kane.

Hahahahahahahahaha...

And the bombs were just dropped on Nagasaki.

Can't we all just get along?

[Kraftster]

The incredulous way that so many are responding to these Malkin trade talks are getting a bit annoying. If the Pens hadn't traded for Hossa, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, but, the bottom line is, that happened, and, as a result, the conversation of whether to keep Malkin or not has simply been accelerated. It was coming somewhere down the line anyway.

To suggest that a valid argument can't be made that the Pens would be equally suited to compete long term by keeping Hossa and trading Malkin after next season is foolish. Taking this particular rumor which came from a reputable source as an example, I think its far from clear that the Pens would be so much better with Malkin than Hossa, Orpik, Brown, Kopitar, and some blue chhipper for the next 4-6 years. At least, in my opinion, its close enough that people who entertain the thought of trading Malkin shouldn't be treated like yinzer bandwagon fans.

Some people have really enjoyed watching Crosby play with a world class talent in Hossa. The bottom line is, Hossa probably won't be staying around if Malkin remains beyond next season. We all know what Malkin did this year, but, there are some out there that are debating whether or not having a stacked first line with some extra money to go into the D and depth might be better for the team. There's nothing wrong with that.

Anyway, I rambled, but, the point is, its far from absurd to talk about this topic.