Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby netwolf on Tue May 09, 2006 1:14 pm

Take it for what it's worth...

I was driving around at lunch today listening to the daily NHL callin show on Sirius. The normal hosts are Don LaGreca and Zig Fracassi. EJ Hradek hosts sometimes too, along with a couple of other guys.

LaGreca was and some other guy (Zig was out) were talking about rumors of a Blues/Pens flip-flop at the top of the draft. They didn't hint at what the Pens might be giving up but speculated that since the Blues could use help pretty much everywhere, they might prefer to drop to #2, make the splash by drafting Kessel, and pick up another player along the way.

If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.

I'm not that familiar with the Blue depth chart and salary structure. Would they be interested in Caron or are they still on the hook for Lalime? Would a one-dimensional scorer like Ouellet be of interest? What about Surovy or Christensen? Where does the price to move up one spot get to be to high?

Stay tuned...
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby DelPen on Tue May 09, 2006 1:17 pm

The price to move up would be gicing up a player you don't see as a solid lock to make the team next year and be around 2-3 years down the road. Some players that I would give up would be Melichar, Ouellet, Surovy and Scuderi.
DelPen
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 31,961
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby Daniel on Tue May 09, 2006 1:20 pm

netwolf wrote:If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.


If the Blues have Kessel as #1, why would the Pens offer much of anything to move up to get Johnson? The Blues won't want to trade with another team, because the Pens would take Kessel at #2 and leave the Blues without the person they want. If the Blues really want Kessel, the Pens would get Johnson #2 without giving up anything.
Daniel
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,099
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Postby Pitts on Tue May 09, 2006 1:20 pm

DelPen wrote:The price to move up would be gicing up a player you don't see as a solid lock to make the team next year and be around 2-3 years down the road. Some players that I would give up would be Melichar, Ouellet, Surovy and Scuderi.

Christensen is that player. With Crosby, Malkin and Malone down the middle (assuming Malone stays there), another gifted, natural center is expendable.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,022
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby Pitts on Tue May 09, 2006 1:22 pm

Daniel wrote:
netwolf wrote:If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.


If the Blues have Kessel as #1, why would the Pens offer much of anything to move up to get Johnson? The Blues won't want to trade with another team, because the Pens would take Kessel at #2 and leave the Blues without the person they want. If the Blues really want Kessel, the Pens would get Johnson #2 without giving up anything.

What if Chicago or Washington have their eyes on Johnson?
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,022
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby Bowser on Tue May 09, 2006 1:23 pm

Blues need everything at forward, more quality at defense, and quit yanking goalies.

If the Penguins are targeting Erik Johnson as the #1 overall pick and lord knows they could use a defenseman like him, especially being right-handed, they will need to offer something of quality to move up.

I'm thinking Erik Christensen or maybe a defenseman like Michal Sersen.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,960
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:08 am

Postby netwolf on Tue May 09, 2006 1:26 pm

It did only take Mikael Samuelsson last time... You could argue there will be more demand for Erik Johnson than any of Fluery, Staal, or Horton though.

The big keys are who St. Louis has as their #1 and how sure they are of how far down they can move and still get him.

If you're a Pens fan and want to get Johnson, they I have to think you want the Blue to be eyeballing Kessel. If that's the case, I don't think they'll risk dropping to 3 or lower. They swap with the Pens or just take Kessel at #1.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby netwolf on Tue May 09, 2006 1:28 pm

Bowser wrote:Blues need everything at forward, more quality at defense, and quit yanking goalies.

If the Penguins are targeting Erik Johnson as the #1 overall pick and lord knows they could use a defenseman like him, especially being right-handed, they will need to offer something of quality to move up.

I'm thinking Erik Christensen or maybe a defenseman like Michal Sersen.


I could live with that. I'd prefer to keep Kris Letang though.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue May 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Pitts wrote:
Daniel wrote:
netwolf wrote:If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.


If the Blues have Kessel as #1, why would the Pens offer much of anything to move up to get Johnson? The Blues won't want to trade with another team, because the Pens would take Kessel at #2 and leave the Blues without the person they want. If the Blues really want Kessel, the Pens would get Johnson #2 without giving up anything.

What if Chicago or Washington have their eyes on Johnson?


If Chicago or Washington trade up and take Johnson, then we would just take Kessel at #2, and the Blues would get the shaft.

That's the flaw, if the Blues trade down past us, they have to worry about us taking the player they want.
FallenHero96
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby MrKnowNothing on Tue May 09, 2006 1:45 pm

I'd easily give up a Christiansen or Surovy to move up. But I've said before that I don't see a consensus order at the top, and I still prefer Backstrom to anyone at the top of the draft.

The rumor I've read from Don Cherry is that Staal will go first.

People are going to suggest that might be crazy, and I don't think he is the best player available, but it wouldn't surprise me. If I were a team in the top 6, I'd keep my pick and make sure I got who I wanted. The only special case would be a situation like this where a team drops down one spot and has a guarantee from the team they traded with that they will still get who they want.
MrKnowNothing
 

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby Pitts on Tue May 09, 2006 1:46 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Daniel wrote:
netwolf wrote:If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.


If the Blues have Kessel as #1, why would the Pens offer much of anything to move up to get Johnson? The Blues won't want to trade with another team, because the Pens would take Kessel at #2 and leave the Blues without the person they want. If the Blues really want Kessel, the Pens would get Johnson #2 without giving up anything.

What if Chicago or Washington have their eyes on Johnson?


If Chicago or Washington trade up and take Johnson, then we would just take Kessel at #2, and the Blues would get the shaft.

That's the flaw, if the Blues trade down past us, they have to worry about us taking the player they want.

If Chicago or Washington offer something of value similar to Kessel, then the Blues could skip on Kessel and take another center/forward (at 3rd or 4th) and get a young scoring prospect as well. Depends on how much the Pens want to secure Johnson as most of the forwards in the top 6 are pretty interchangeable. But, Kessel is a good consolation prize. Any way you look at it, the Pens have one of Johnson or Kessel.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,022
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby freq019 on Tue May 09, 2006 2:06 pm

could washington want staal? Since they already have a goal scorer in AO wouldn't they be looking for a set up man?
freq019
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Now in the burgh

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue May 09, 2006 3:25 pm

You think Chicago or Washington would offer something similar value of Kessel to move up 2 or 3 spots? I don't. That would be giving them one of their top prospects, and I can see Washington wanting Staal anyways.
FallenHero96
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,473
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Postby Mountaineer on Tue May 09, 2006 3:53 pm

Not sure where these rumors are coming from, especially since the Pens are without a G.M. at the moment. I see no reason why the Pens would entertain a possible trade with the Blues. They're in a great position at number two, and are guaranteed a great player in either Kessel or Johnson.
Mountaineer
 

Postby mnpensfan on Tue May 09, 2006 4:34 pm

freq019 wrote:could washington want staal? Since they already have a goal scorer in AO wouldn't they be looking for a set up man?


Exactly........They either need a #1 d-man or a playmaking center. They have Semin on the way so they will have two very good wingers in him and AO.

Staal would be a perfect fit for them.......
mnpensfan
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:48 am
Location: Cottage Grove, MN

Postby bill from turtle creek on Tue May 09, 2006 5:07 pm

I don't see anything happening. The Pens have little depth anywhere, and certainly can't afford to give up any good players at this time. They are guaranteed a good player no matter who they get, and they need both forwards and defensemen. On top of all that, they have no GM. I do not believe that Sawyer is going to get involved in hockey operations, and it would be stupid to have Lemieux or Malone make these decisions, which could hamper their chances of landing a top GM candidate.

Just doesn't make any sense.
bill from turtle creek
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Serenity Now, Serenity Now.

Postby HomerPenguin on Tue May 09, 2006 6:24 pm

netwolf wrote:It did only take Mikael Samuelsson last time... You could argue there will be more demand for Erik Johnson than any of Fluery, Staal, or Horton though.


Really, it took Mikael Samuelsson and the assurance that the Penguins would take Fleury to make that deal happen.
HomerPenguin
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:50 pm
Location: ...

Postby guiner on Tue May 09, 2006 7:36 pm

I posted a while back that I thought the Pens and St. Louis would make a deal but Reilly told me that there was no way that the Blues were dealing and that they would definetly take Johnson. So it has to be true...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

g
guiner
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,048
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:07 am
Location: Cobb Mountain, CA

Postby ville5 on Tue May 09, 2006 7:47 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:I don't see anything happening. The Pens have little depth anywhere, and certainly can't afford to give up any good players at this time. They are guaranteed a good player no matter who they get, and they need both forwards and defensemen. On top of all that, they have no GM. I do not believe that Sawyer is going to get involved in hockey operations, and it would be stupid to have Lemieux or Malone make these decisions, which could hamper their chances of landing a top GM candidate.

Just doesn't make any sense.

If the Pens are discussing any trades, EJ is doing the talking.
ville5
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,414
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Postby Ron` on Tue May 09, 2006 7:51 pm

guiner wrote:I posted a while back that I thought the Pens and St. Louis would make a deal but Reilly told me that there was no way that the Blues were dealing and that they would definetly take Johnson. So it has to be true...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

g


I agree, if Reilly says it isn't so, it has to be fact. No one can put a totally 180 degree spin on a subject like Reilly.
Ron`
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,017
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:58 pm
Location: Central PA

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby Daniel on Tue May 09, 2006 7:54 pm

Pitts wrote:What if Chicago or Washington have their eyes on Johnson?


This whole thing is based on the presumption that St. Louis wants to get Kessel. If Chicago or Washington want Johnson and the Blues make the trade, the Pens simply take Kessel and St. Louis is left without the player they want.
Daniel
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,099
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby NIN on Tue May 09, 2006 7:58 pm

netwolf wrote:Take it for what it's worth...

I was driving around at lunch today listening to the daily NHL callin show on Sirius. The normal hosts are Don LaGreca and Zig Fracassi. EJ Hradek hosts sometimes too, along with a couple of other guys.

LaGreca was and some other guy (Zig was out) were talking about rumors of a Blues/Pens flip-flop at the top of the draft. They didn't hint at what the Pens might be giving up but speculated that since the Blues could use help pretty much everywhere, they might prefer to drop to #2, make the splash by drafting Kessel, and pick up another player along the way.

If the Blues have Kessel (or anyone other than Johnson) pegged as their #1, it only makes sense for them to move down. If Kessel is who they want, I can't see them dropping past #2 as he may not be there.

I'm not that familiar with the Blue depth chart and salary structure. Would they be interested in Caron or are they still on the hook for Lalime? Would a one-dimensional scorer like Ouellet be of interest? What about Surovy or Christensen? Where does the price to move up one spot get to be to high?

Stay tuned...


I would give up Ouellete or Surovy for sure but I would be reluctant to part with Christensen. If it took EC to ensure that they dont tarde down with #3 I guess I would do it. We need EJ BAD even though I will not be upset if we get STaal or someone like that.
NIN
 

Re: Blues/Pens working on a swap?

Postby ville5 on Tue May 09, 2006 8:13 pm

netwolf wrote:Take it for what it's worth. Where does the price to move up one spot get to be to high?

Stay tuned...

The price shouldn't be all that high wolf. Reason I say this is two-fold. If the Blues are trying to trade with us, they don't want to fall past #2. Secondly, and most importantly in keeping the price down, is assurances from the Pens that they won't draft who the Blues want.
The price should get nowhere near a Whitney, Welch, etc. So Surovy or Christensen and a mid pick should be enough. Or possibly Orpik if they want a d-man.
ville5
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,414
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Postby netwolf on Tue May 09, 2006 8:38 pm

I would be okay with using Christensen to move up to #1 to take Erik Johnson. I like him and I think he will be a decent player in this league, but we are set with scoring centermen and Christensen is not suited for a checking role. He may or may not be able to make the succesful move to wing. I like him, but there may not be room for him. If he can bring a franchise caliber defenseman here, then I'm fine with that.

If the Blues are set on Kessel, then I agree the pice won't be that high as the Pens are the only trading partner that could guarantee them Kessel. I believe the Pens will take him if they stay at #2 and Johnson goes first.

The potential hangup is if the Blues have Toews, Staal, or someone else as their number 1. If that's the case, the door opens to more trading partners.
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,329
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby NIN on Tue May 09, 2006 9:16 pm

netwolf wrote:I would be okay with using Christensen to move up to #1 to take Erik Johnson. I like him and I think he will be a decent player in this league, but we are set with scoring centermen and Christensen is not suited for a checking role. He may or may not be able to make the succesful move to wing. I like him, but there may not be room for him. If he can bring a franchise caliber defenseman here, then I'm fine with that.

If the Blues are set on Kessel, then I agree the pice won't be that high as the Pens are the only trading partner that could guarantee them Kessel. I believe the Pens will take him if they stay at #2 and Johnson goes first.

The potential hangup is if the Blues have Toews, Staal, or someone else as their number 1. If that's the case, the door opens to more trading partners.


Thats why it is CRITICAL that the Pens don't let on about who they are interested in drafting. They need to give the impression that it could be anybody up untill it's time to pick . Obviously they need EJ but they should also deal with the reality of picking #2 without him being there. The less the rest of the league knows about the Penguins picking a forward the better.
NIN
 

Next

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Antonio, dodint, ffemtreed, GJ, Inkio, no name, OutofFoil, sil, SpinnerSpencer, Stillerz Bar, the riddler, topshelf66 and 49 guests

e-mail