Should Mario take less money?

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Should Mario take less money?

Postby Scott on Wed May 10, 2006 11:04 am

Should he take less money to sell to a local buyer that will keep the team here? I say yes he should. He doesnt have to, but he should.
Why?
If you take a look at how many people and how much energy people have put into "slots for mario" "pittsburgh first" the rallies etc etc...

He has received massive support to keep this team here. Furthermore people really like this guy. To some, he is the second coming.

I am not referring to losing money as opposed to making money. If it comes down to making a little more by selling out of town, or just making some by selling to keep local, he owes it to the supporting fans to keep this team here.

Something else I would like to get off my chest.
I would like to see the Rooneys get more involved in a new arena. If its just public speaking on the issue that would be fine. Just a lot of it. They got their stadium, Pirates got theirs, where is the overwhelming support from these two? They say "they need a new arena" and that is about the end of it.
They could get some of their own PR people involved and just speak out on this subject with frequency. Plan A or Plan b or Plan X, it doesnt matter. We could use a lot more support from the Steelers and the Pirates. It wouldnt hurt.
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Re: Should Mario take less money?

Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 11:11 am

Scott wrote:Should he take less money to sell to a local buyer that will keep the team here? I say yes he should. He doesnt have to, but he should.
Why?
If you take a look at how many people and how much energy people have put into "slots for mario" "pittsburgh first" the rallies etc etc...

He has received massive support to keep this team here. Furthermore people really like this guy. To some, he is the second coming.

I am not referring to losing money as opposed to making money. If it comes down to making a little more by selling out of town, or just making some by selling to keep local, he owes it to the supporting fans to keep this team here.

Something else I would like to get off my chest.
I would like to see the Rooneys get more involved in a new arena. If its just public speaking on the issue that would be fine. Just a lot of it. They got their stadium, Pirates got theirs, where is the overwhelming support from these two? They say "they need a new arena" and that is about the end of it.
They could get some of their own PR people involved and just speak out on this subject with frequency. Plan A or Plan b or Plan X, it doesnt matter. We could use a lot more support from the Steelers and the Pirates. It wouldnt hurt.


I think they would take less if the IOC wins.

The Rooney's have said they are opposed to a casino on the North Shore and so have the Pirates. The Pirates have publically supported the Pens efforts as well.

Nothing more they can do when Forest City has lined the pockets of Rendell, OnoRATo, and O'Connor.

Can't beat crooked jerks unless Rendell is voted OUT.
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Postby Racer17 on Wed May 10, 2006 11:13 am

People forget Mario is not 100% owner of the team. He has dozens of other investors who want compensated for their investments, many of which I'm sure have no personal ties to Pittsburgh. It's his duty to get them maximum return on their investment, not just be a nice guy.

He owes Pittsburgh NOTHING. They've been jerking him around since 1999.
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 11:14 am

I do not think Mario should sell for less to keep the team here, especially if it starts getting into the 10's of millions. He had made an investment and fought for 7 years to get this arena.

He has followed everything the government has said. He never had to do this in the first place, so in the end, I hope he gets his money for all of the hard work he has done.

Also, he is not the only investor. In fact, he is not even a majority investor. There are other guys that just want their money and have no ties to Pittsburgh.

It sucks for the fans, and I for one am sick at the prospect of the team leaving. But this is a business, and if the local politicans do not back the IOC or give a heck of a lease for plan B, then I blame them because this should have been taken care of a long time ago.

As for the Rooney's I do not expect them to bend over backwards, but a word or two of support would go a long way. McClatchy did it. Why can't Pittsburgh natives like the Rooneys do it.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 11:19 am

newarenanow wrote:I do not think Mario should sell for less to keep the team here, especially if it starts getting into the 10's of millions. He had made an investment and fought for 7 years to get this arena.

He has followed everything the government has said. He never had to do this in the first place, so in the end, I hope he gets his money for all of the hard work he has done.

Also, he is not the only investor. In fact, he is not even a majority investor. There are other guys that just want their money and have no ties to Pittsburgh.

It sucks for the fans, and I for one am sick at the prospect of the team leaving. But this is a business, and if the local politicans do not back the IOC or give a heck of a lease for plan B, then I blame them because this should have been taken care of a long time ago.

As for the Rooney's I do not expect them to bend over backwards, but a word or two of support would go a long way. McClatchy did it. Why can't Pittsburgh natives like the Rooneys do it.


Because they fired Tom Rooney when he said they didn't need a new arena.

If the Rooney's owned this team the arena would have been built five years ago.

It's sad, they used Mario's loyalty to the city against him and stalled on their promise.

Now it's probably too late unless the IOC wins the license.
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Postby DelPen on Wed May 10, 2006 11:56 am

If IoC wins the license the team stays here. This condition will probably lower the price of the team because it can't move. But if FC wins the price goes up because you would think there will be more interest.

So it's not that Mario will chose sell lower to keep the team in Pittsburgh, it's more likely he'll have to.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed May 10, 2006 12:12 pm

It is ridiculous to think that Mario should take less $$ in any sale scenario to keep the team here. That said, the Pens will sell for more to STAY in Pittsburgh with a new arena (IoC or Plan B) because if they get a new arena here they will get 100% of all arena revenues which will drive the value i.e., SALE PRICE higher than a scenario where they will not get 100% of arena revenues.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 12:22 pm

Draftnik wrote:It is ridiculous to think that Mario should take less $$ in any sale scenario to keep the team here. That said, the Pens will sell for more to STAY in Pittsburgh with a new arena (IoC or Plan B) because if they get a new arena here they will get 100% of all arena revenues which will drive the value i.e., SALE PRICE higher than a scenario where they will not get 100% of arena revenues.


But but but, Mario is greedy, and the Pens are moving cause everyone wants them, and KC has a nice, new, shiny arena just waiting for a team, and Mario is greedy, and they can't afford to stay in Pittsburgh but can afford to move to a similar or lesser market, and Mario should take less money so I can feel good about myself, the Pens will make millions more if they move to Hartford and will somehow circumvent the salary cap and spend $100 million on payroll, and...

Anyone notice that at least two of the "SUSPECTed" buyers have ties to Hartford?
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 12:25 pm

Draftnik wrote:It is ridiculous to think that Mario should take less $$ in any sale scenario to keep the team here. That said, the Pens will sell for more to STAY in Pittsburgh with a new arena (IoC or Plan B) because if they get a new arena here they will get 100% of all arena revenues which will drive the value i.e., SALE PRICE higher than a scenario where they will not get 100% of arena revenues.


You keep saying 100% of the revenues. Is that with the IOC plan or Plan 'B'? The lease hasn't even been written yet under Plan 'B', so we do not know how much revenue they will get.

Plus, is there any local buyers that have that kind of dough to drop to keep the team in Pittsburgh? The only guy I saw was the guy from Ohio and it doesn't seem like he has that kind of money. I know investments groups still have to be put together, but most of the potential owners that have a lot of money seem to want to move the team and are willing to drop the cash to do that.
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Postby Tico Rick on Wed May 10, 2006 12:27 pm

Mario is not Gandhi, and he owes Pittsburgh nothing. I sure hope he keeps the team in Pittsburgh, but I won't begrudge him if he sells it to someone who then moves it. He's done more than enough for Pittsburgh already.
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Postby prez41 on Wed May 10, 2006 12:33 pm

Should Mario take less money?



No. He has tried to work with the city and state. He (and his ownership group) owe this area nothing.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed May 10, 2006 12:38 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Draftnik wrote:It is ridiculous to think that Mario should take less $$ in any sale scenario to keep the team here. That said, the Pens will sell for more to STAY in Pittsburgh with a new arena (IoC or Plan B) because if they get a new arena here they will get 100% of all arena revenues which will drive the value i.e., SALE PRICE higher than a scenario where they will not get 100% of arena revenues.


You keep saying 100% of the revenues. Is that with the IOC plan or Plan 'B'? The lease hasn't even been written yet under Plan 'B', so we do not know how much revenue they will get.

Plus, is there any local buyers that have that kind of dough to drop to keep the team in Pittsburgh? The only guy I saw was the guy from Ohio and it doesn't seem like he has that kind of money. I know investments groups still have to be put together, but most of the potential owners that have a lot of money seem to want to move the team and are willing to drop the cash to do that.


Rendell said the Pens would get the same deal as the Steelers/Pirates. That = 100% control of the building. It is amazing how many times I have to repeat things here.

All the speculation about out of town buyers is about IoC losing but no Plan B. If there is no Plan B I agree 100% the Pens are gone. With a Plan B and full control of a new arena the Pens are worth more here than anywhere else. I don't understand why you don't understand that. The sales price will be determined by revenue streams and profitability potential. That has nothing to do with what city the team resides in. We are not talking about Pittsburgh versus NY, Toronto, or another major market that can sell suites and seats for much more than here. We are talking Pittsburgh (B city) versus other crappy B level markets. 100% of B revenue in Pittsburgh is worth much more than 100% -AEG's share of revenue in KC for example. If Les Alexander throws his hat in the ring (Houston) there is a different type of integration in play that could make sense. I've typed repetitive information into this forum so many times my fingers are bleeding.

People will believe what they want to believe regardless of the math.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 12:40 pm

I've typed repetitive information into this forum so many times my fingers are bleeding.


Try some biting sarcasm instead. :roll:
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 12:43 pm

Draftnik wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
Draftnik wrote:It is ridiculous to think that Mario should take less $$ in any sale scenario to keep the team here. That said, the Pens will sell for more to STAY in Pittsburgh with a new arena (IoC or Plan B) because if they get a new arena here they will get 100% of all arena revenues which will drive the value i.e., SALE PRICE higher than a scenario where they will not get 100% of arena revenues.


You keep saying 100% of the revenues. Is that with the IOC plan or Plan 'B'? The lease hasn't even been written yet under Plan 'B', so we do not know how much revenue they will get.

Plus, is there any local buyers that have that kind of dough to drop to keep the team in Pittsburgh? The only guy I saw was the guy from Ohio and it doesn't seem like he has that kind of money. I know investments groups still have to be put together, but most of the potential owners that have a lot of money seem to want to move the team and are willing to drop the cash to do that.


Rendell said the Pens would get the same deal as the Steelers/Pirates. That = 100% control of the building. It is amazing how many times I have to repeat things here.

All the speculation about out of town buyers is about IoC losing but no Plan B. If there is no Plan B I agree 100% the Pens are gone. With a Plan B and full control of a new arena the Pens are worth more here than anywhere else. I don't understand why you don't understand that. The sales price will be determined by revenue streams and profitability potential. That has nothing to do with what city the team resides in. We are not talking about Pittsburgh versus NY, Toronto, or another major market that can sell suites and seats for much more than here. We are talking Pittsburgh (B city) versus other crappy B level markets. 100% of B revenue in Pittsburgh is worth much more than 100% -AEG's share of revenue in KC for example. If Les Alexander throws his hat in the ring (Houston) there is a different type of integration in play that could make sense. I've typed repetitive information into this forum so many times my fingers are bleeding.

People will believe what they want to believe regardless of the math.


No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena.

That's more than what they would pay for the team.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed May 10, 2006 12:54 pm

No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena. That's more than what they would pay for the team.


Guess what? They are already paying $90M in lease payments for 30 years under the IoC plan. That is a fact, not my opinion. Rendell said he is willing to negotiate on his offer so that is an invitation for the Pens to drive his price down. This is a negotiation. There is no logical reason Rendell would lead with his lowest price.

This isn't like buying a hamburger at McDonald's.

I assume most people here have bought/sold houses, cars, etc and negotiated contracts for work so they wouldn't expect Rendell to lead with his best offer or expect the Pens to lead with their minimum acceptable requirements, but I should know better when assuming....
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:00 pm

Draftnik wrote:
No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena. That's more than what they would pay for the team.


Guess what? They are already paying $90M in lease payments for 30 years under the IoC plan. That is a fact, not my opinion. Rendell said he is willing to negotiate on his offer so that is an invitation for the Pens to drive his price down. This is a negotiation. There is no logical reason Rendell would lead with his lowest price.

This isn't like buying a hamburger at McDonald's.

I assume most people here have bought/sold houses, cars, etc and negotiated contracts for work so they wouldn't expect Rendell to lead with his best offer or expect the Pens to lead with their minimum acceptable requirements, but I should know better when assuming....


$90 million? That's $53 million less isn't it?

I would also bet the Pens didn't earmark naming rights money to go towards constuction also.

Rendell also said they had $90 million in state money waiting.

Where is it?

EVERYTHING Rendell is basing this on is from slots revenue/projections of slots revenue.

Well what if the casino fails?

What if Harrah's, as is their glorious history much more than IOC, threatens to close the casino unless payments are cancelled/changed?

How is the arena paid for then?
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 1:03 pm

Draftnik wrote:
No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena. That's more than what they would pay for the team.


Guess what? They are already paying $90M in lease payments for 30 years under the IoC plan. Tquote]

Plan B is asking them to pay $53M more over 30 years for their plan. Also, the new owner will be taking $7-8M of losses on a two round playoff year for the next 3 years.

Add those two together, that is half of the potential selling price.

And KC has all of their suites sold and almost 12,000 season ticket holders for a team that does not exist already. Don't say they can't sell tickets.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 1:03 pm

Crash wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena. That's more than what they would pay for the team.


Guess what? They are already paying $90M in lease payments for 30 years under the IoC plan. That is a fact, not my opinion. Rendell said he is willing to negotiate on his offer so that is an invitation for the Pens to drive his price down. This is a negotiation. There is no logical reason Rendell would lead with his lowest price.

This isn't like buying a hamburger at McDonald's.

I assume most people here have bought/sold houses, cars, etc and negotiated contracts for work so they wouldn't expect Rendell to lead with his best offer or expect the Pens to lead with their minimum acceptable requirements, but I should know better when assuming....


$90 million? That's $53 million less isn't it?

I would also bet the Pens didn't earmark naming rights money to go towards constuction also.

Rendell also said they had $90 million in state money waiting.

Where is it?

EVERYTHING Rendell is basing this on is from slots revenue/projections of slots revenue.

Well what if the casino fails?

What if Harrah's, as is their glorious history much more than IOC, threatens to close the casino unless payments are cancelled/changed?

How is the arena paid for then?


What if a giant red ball hovers over the city and turns everyone into zombies? What then?
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Postby prez41 on Wed May 10, 2006 1:05 pm

What if a giant red ball hovers over the city and turns everyone into zombies? What then?


That's obvious: You call Bruce Campbell.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:07 pm

pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
No owner will keep this team here if they have to pay $143 mil towards an arena. That's more than what they would pay for the team.


Guess what? They are already paying $90M in lease payments for 30 years under the IoC plan. That is a fact, not my opinion. Rendell said he is willing to negotiate on his offer so that is an invitation for the Pens to drive his price down. This is a negotiation. There is no logical reason Rendell would lead with his lowest price.

This isn't like buying a hamburger at McDonald's.

I assume most people here have bought/sold houses, cars, etc and negotiated contracts for work so they wouldn't expect Rendell to lead with his best offer or expect the Pens to lead with their minimum acceptable requirements, but I should know better when assuming....


$90 million? That's $53 million less isn't it?

I would also bet the Pens didn't earmark naming rights money to go towards constuction also.

Rendell also said they had $90 million in state money waiting.

Where is it?

EVERYTHING Rendell is basing this on is from slots revenue/projections of slots revenue.

Well what if the casino fails?

What if Harrah's, as is their glorious history much more than IOC, threatens to close the casino unless payments are cancelled/changed?

How is the arena paid for then?


What if a giant red ball hovers over the city and turns everyone into zombies? What then?


Reality please, answer the questions:

EVERYTHING Rendell is basing this on is from slots revenue/projections of slots revenue.

Well what if the casino fails?

What if Harrah's, as is their glorious history much more than IOC, threatens to close the casino unless payments are cancelled/changed?

How is the arena paid for then?
Crash
 

Postby Pitts on Wed May 10, 2006 1:11 pm

prez41 wrote:
What if a giant red ball hovers over the city and turns everyone into zombies? What then?


That's obvious: You call Bruce Campbell.

No, David Blaine. He is, afterall, half alien.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 1:14 pm

EVERYTHING Rendell is basing this on is from slots revenue/projections of slots revenue.

Well what if the casino fails?

What if Harrah's, as is their glorious history much more than IOC, threatens to close the casino unless payments are cancelled/changed?

How is the arena paid for then?


If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies.

If the slots parlor fails, I'm sure you'll be seeing that money taken out of your pocket in the form of taxes.

If you want to compare the IOC plan to Plan B, that's fine, but if we're talking about relocating the franchise, you should compare both to what they'll pay in a city like KC or Hamilton.
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Postby Pitts on Wed May 10, 2006 1:17 pm

Not only do I think Mario should take less money to keep the team here, I think he should divide his profits between all the fans who stood by him all these years and made him the God that he is! How dare him threaten to sell our team to the highest bidder! Shame on him for all eternity! :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :roll:
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:20 pm

>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 1:24 pm

Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.
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