Should Mario take less money?

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Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed May 10, 2006 1:28 pm

Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


If the casino fails then the funds will have to come from another source. most likely it would be taxpayers, although other possibilities are possible. But this arguement has no bearing on Plan B really. The Pens will just want a guarentee that if the casino does fail and the previous guarenteed amount is now forfeited that the Pens will not be on the hook for the now missing amount.

There are a lot of details that will need ironing out before Plan B is a reality.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:29 pm

pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.


Agreed, so WHO?????????????????????

You are right, they won't own it, but they sure as hell want them to pay DOUBLE what the Steelers did for a building they will use 65 days a year MAX.

Rendell's plan is nothing more than a sham to say "We tried, they left".
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:35 pm

>>If the casino fails then the funds will have to come from another source. most likely it would be taxpayers, although other possibilities are possible. But this arguement has no bearing on Plan B really. <<

Sure it does, because the IOC's plan calls for $290 MILLION to be placed into an escrow account *90 days* after winning the license.

So in reality the arena will already be paid for, well in advance, before the IOC could even determine that the casino is failing.

Just another reason why the IOC is the best plan. But Rendell and his cooked deals along with OnoRATo's and O'Connor's deals are going to kill it.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 1:39 pm

Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.


Agreed, so WHO?????????????????????




YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:45 pm

pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.


Agreed, so WHO?????????????????????




YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!


So that's good? Put the tax payer more in debt in a city thats going broke?

That's smart.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed May 10, 2006 1:49 pm

None of this matters in the long run. Local government is showing via their handling of this issue just how stupid they are, and how ill-equipped they are to govern. With idiots like these guys in charge, this area is doomed to suffer a lingering death no matter what happens to the Pens and this arena.

Really, it's pathetic. How anybody can possibly be optimistic about the future of this region is beyond me.
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Postby pfim on Wed May 10, 2006 1:52 pm

Well, that's the answer. I never said Plan B is better than the IOC plan, just that it's likely to be better than paying rent to AEG in KC.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 1:59 pm

pfim wrote:Well, that's the answer. I never said Plan B is better than the IOC plan, just that it's likely to be better than paying rent to AEG in KC.


If they have to pay $143 mil in Pittsburgh what's the point? The ON ICE product will suffer just like it did before.

If the IOC looses, barring some miracle (And please spare me the Cuban angle) the Pens are gone.
Last edited by Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 2:00 pm

Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.


Agreed, so WHO?????????????????????




YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!


So that's good? Put the tax payer more in debt in a city thats going broke?

That's smart.


There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.

We will have to pay for a new arena with tax dollars in about 5 years when Bob O' is ready for his so called NBA team to come to Pittsburgh.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 2:07 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:
pfim wrote:
Crash wrote:>>If Harrah's tries to alter the terms of the slots license, they can find somewhere else to take nickels from blue-haired ladies. <<

OK, so they close the casino, again, who pays for the arena then?


Certainly not the Pens, they won't own it.


Agreed, so WHO?????????????????????




YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!


So that's good? Put the tax payer more in debt in a city thats going broke?

That's smart.


There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.

We will have to pay for a new arena with tax dollars in about 5 years when Bob O' is ready for his so called NBA team to come to Pittsburgh.


The NBA will never draw in Pittsburgh, especially with LeBron James two hours away.

Plan C is a farce, the Pens have already had two "meetings" postponed on them by the crooks in office.
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 2:29 pm

I agree that the NBA won't draw here. Didn't you sense my sarcasm? I'm just saying what DVE said on the air about a month ago related to O'Connor saying if the Pens leave he won't lose 3 votes and he is planning on getting an NBA team to Pittsburgh.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 2:32 pm

newarenanow wrote:I agree that the NBA won't draw here. Didn't you sense my sarcasm? I'm just saying what DVE said on the air about a month ago related to O'Connor saying if the Pens leave he won't lose 3 votes and he is planning on getting an NBA team to Pittsburgh.


Yeah, that'll fly.

He won't lose three votes, he'll lose more than that.

He's just as big of a jagoff as his rump ranger Rendell.
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Postby imau2fan on Wed May 10, 2006 3:44 pm

There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 3:58 pm

imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.
Crash
 

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 10, 2006 4:08 pm

Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.
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Postby imau2fan on Wed May 10, 2006 4:16 pm

Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


My point is, if Sawyer/Lemieux are as dedicated to keeping the team in Pittsburgh as they purport to be, they wouldn't care whether Plan B has "gaps" or not.

Why should they care--they won't own the team anymore!

That is, unless they're worried Plan B would depress the sale price.......there's your answer. They need to stop being phonies and call a spade a spade.

It just frustrates me............everyone wants the media to shove a microphone in the faces of the politicians, and God knows they've made a mess of the situation.

But nobody wants them to do the same to Sawyer/Lemieux, and force them to answer the question:

"Why should you care about Plan B if you won't own the team anymore?"

Force them to go on the record, stating their true motives. See if Mario has the gall to say, "Screw you fans, I want the maximum millions possible."

Oops, I forgot, that's not allowed........Mario is a sacred cow, and I'm not worthy.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 4:19 pm

DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.


The NHL supports the IOC plan and I also do not believe the NHL can stop the Pens when the lease is up and they are free to go.
Crash
 

Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 4:26 pm

imau2fan wrote:
Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


My point is, if Sawyer/Lemieux are as dedicated to keeping the team in Pittsburgh as they purport to be, they wouldn't care whether Plan B has "gaps" or not.

Why should they care--they won't own the team anymore!

That is, unless they're worried Plan B would depress the sale price.......there's your answer. They need to stop being phonies and call a spade a spade.

It just frustrates me............everyone wants the media to shove a microphone in the faces of the politicians, and God knows they've made a mess of the situation.

But nobody wants them to do the same to Sawyer/Lemieux, and force them to answer the question:

"Why should you care about Plan B if you won't own the team anymore?"

Force them to go on the record, stating their true motives. See if Mario has the gall to say, "Screw you fans, I want the maximum millions possible."

Oops, I forgot, that's not allowed........Mario is a sacred cow, and I'm not worthy.


First off, I hope you are not a business man, because you would run your business to the ground.

Second, Lemieux has already stated numerous times that he has to protect his investment and the investment of the rest of the owners. Why would they want to give up millions to make you happy?

Third, if there are gaping holes in plan b, no new owner will accept that, and if they did, the Pens will be in bankruptcy again before you know it and the taxpayers will end up paying for the arena.

This isn't a fairy tale where you just say, "erect an arena, the Pens will stay, and everyone will be happy." There are millions of dollars invested into this. Who is going to pay for all of it? I'm sure if they asked you to, you wouldn't.

As for the NHL mandating a local ownership group, first there has to be one, and second, the NHL will not force the current owners to sell to the lowest bidder if they promise to keep them in town. The NHL is a business too and will not allow that. If plan B is not viable in the Pens eyes, the NHL will NOT stop them from moving. Teams move all of the time.
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Postby DayWalker on Wed May 10, 2006 4:48 pm

Crash wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.


The NHL supports the IOC plan and I also do not believe the NHL can stop the Pens when the lease is up and they are free to go.


Nope. For a franchise to be relocated, the owners need the approval of the NHL Board of Governors.
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Postby newarenanow on Wed May 10, 2006 4:49 pm

DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.


The NHL supports the IOC plan and I also do not believe the NHL can stop the Pens when the lease is up and they are free to go.


Nope. For a franchise to be relocated, the owners need the approval of the NHL Board of Governors.


I'm sure they will approve it. They support the IOC plan and not Plan B as of yet. If Plan B is not viable, they will allow the new owners to move the team.
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Postby Ginger on Wed May 10, 2006 5:01 pm

Draftnik wrote:I've typed repetitive information into this forum so many times my fingers are bleeding.

People will believe what they want to believe regardless of the math.

Save your fingers & save your thoughts. You were right on the money with your last remark...if you'll excuse a punnish remark from me. :P

People mix what they want to see with what is feasible. They let their fears dictate their thinking. They don't want to lose the Pens from Pittsburgh. I can sympathize greatly with that. But what we've learned thru' numerous financial problems is that the dollar rules. They can pay lip service to the fans for being loyal & they're not being totally insincere. But has no bearing in the overall scheme of things. And it won't make any difference in what happens in the end. The city has to come to the realization that they aren't losing just a hockey club by not getting the arena built. They are losing massive revenues & respect from other cities by dragging their feet with this decision. Also, IMO, the city has an obligation to keep the Penguins here if only for it's place in NHL history. Pittsburgh being one of the first American teams in expansion beyond the original six.

I know your distaste for saying things over & over; I'm getting sick of my own posts & they get shorter with each regurgitation...lol!
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Postby skullman80 on Wed May 10, 2006 5:38 pm

I've gotten to the point now where I don't even worry about this. Obviously I still care, but I'm not going to get so depressed over something that isn't even going to be decided till December at the earliest. I stressed myself out over this before and during the season, but not now.

I will still go to any rallies, I will still write the politicians, I'm renewing my season ticket etc, but at this point it's just a wait and see game, and it's gonna be a rollercoaster ride.
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Postby DayWalker on Wed May 10, 2006 5:39 pm

newarenanow wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.


The NHL supports the IOC plan and I also do not believe the NHL can stop the Pens when the lease is up and they are free to go.


Nope. For a franchise to be relocated, the owners need the approval of the NHL Board of Governors.


I'm sure they will approve it. They support the IOC plan and not Plan B as of yet. If Plan B is not viable, they will allow the new owners to move the team.


If there is a "viable" Plan B in place? To move the Pittsburgh Penguins? To a failed market like KC? With miserly lease terms?

Unconvinced.

If there is no viable Plan B in place, yeah, sure, they move. As I see it, however, what is on the table may in fact be palatable to the NHL, though they will surely not say that until the slots license is awarded.
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Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 6:01 pm

DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
Crash wrote:
imau2fan wrote:
There will be no Plan B because the new Pens ownership won't accept it. Plain and simple. Unless a deep pocketed local owner steps up, or that guy from Ohio gets a great group of invenstors, it's IOC or bust.

The Pens are hinting at the already.


Why not just sell the team to a local group and let them decide whether Plan B is sufficient?


Who?

There is no local group. They all want to move the team.


I am uncertain the NHL will permit the Penguins to move if there is a "viable" Plan B in place ("viable" as deemed by the NHL Board of Governors), regardless of who buys the team. Who knows, the NHL may make finding a "local" owner or an owner committed to keeping the team in Pittsburgh a foremost priority over moving a team to an already-failed market like KC.

In the end, I think Plan B will be what keeps the Penguins in Pittsburgh-whatever form that Plan B eventually takes.


The NHL supports the IOC plan and I also do not believe the NHL can stop the Pens when the lease is up and they are free to go.


Nope. For a franchise to be relocated, the owners need the approval of the NHL Board of Governors.


How can the NHL force the Pens franchise to stay in a city where they would have a lease? Is that possible?
Crash
 

Postby Crash on Wed May 10, 2006 6:03 pm

>>My point is, if Sawyer/Lemieux are as dedicated to keeping the team in Pittsburgh as they purport to be, they wouldn't care whether Plan B has "gaps" or not.>>

You can't be serious. You want them to sign a 30 year lease without even knowingt what the lease is??????

Laughable.
Crash
 

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