Sportsnet columnist says Pens will struggle to make playoffs

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Postby Draftnik on Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:09 pm

Who cares what this guy says about the Pens playoff chances. Call me crazy, but I think the 16 NHL playoff spots will be decided by the outcome of the 82 NHL games per team regular season play, not the opinion(s) of a columnist.
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:36 pm

pensfan20 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:I think the league right now is so competitive that picking playoff and non-playoff teams before the season starts is alittle silly.


I'll go out on a limb and say the Leafs and Islanders dont make the playoffs... you heard it here first folks.. :lol:


First? you're probably somewhere around 15,000th.
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Postby Pens(Love)29 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:11 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:
topshelf wrote:Like I've said before:

- We'll be fine without Whitney for a few months. We were fine with out Fleury, Crosby, and a few other guys last year and we can do it again. Besides, this is the defenseman who was place on the fourth line wing near the end of the season for poor play.


I'd like to point out that, arguably, Whitney was more of a hindrance than a help last year, so, we might actually look better without him.

It befuddles me that people on this board continue to make these comments.
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Postby DelPen on Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:28 pm

Pens(Love)29 wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:
topshelf wrote:Like I've said before:

- We'll be fine without Whitney for a few months. We were fine with out Fleury, Crosby, and a few other guys last year and we can do it again. Besides, this is the defenseman who was place on the fourth line wing near the end of the season for poor play.


I'd like to point out that, arguably, Whitney was more of a hindrance than a help last year, so, we might actually look better without him.

It befuddles me that people on this board continue to make these comments.


Why? That is a true statement and with the information coming forth finally that his foot was really messed up it makes sense we looked that bad. An injured Whitney stinks. The defense looked great when it was Gonchar, Orpik, Scuderi, Sydor, Gill and Letang when Whitney was playing forward. Now take out Scuderi and Sydor and add in a healthy Eaton and a healthy Whitney come December and we will have a very good defense.
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Postby emptyfriend on Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:37 pm

Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?
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Postby wondermoose on Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:37 pm

As long as this team keeps coming out flat in the first two to three months of the season, then a let down is possible. They're still young so who knows when that clockwork consistency will begin to kick in.
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Postby KG on Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:45 pm

I will say that Hossa/Malone is much better then Satan/Fedotenko, however a team with a core of 2 of the 3 best players in the league and a franchise goalie should not "struggle" to make the playoffs in an average eastern conference...
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Postby DelPen on Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:24 pm

emptyfriend wrote:Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?


WHo does Detroit have that fills this role? When Datsyuk or Zetterberg get hit who "steps up"?
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Postby NJ5934 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:38 pm

emptyfriend wrote:Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?


Team toughness is an issue, I don't care how anyone looks at it. Malone had a huge presence on the top lines. He was an average fighter but he stepped up and threw down quite a few times last season when Sid was getting roughed up. That immediate responce is going to be missed.

Cooke is an effective hitter but he's no Ruutu. Ruutu was a very underrated fighter. Cooke is a turtle when someone comes calling.

Roberts was hurt most of the season, so his loss isn't as much of an issue. Godard will play 3 minutes a night and fight the other teams fourth line tough guy. He might fight alittle more than Laraque but otherwise he's less of a factor. Laraque could skate alongside Malkin or Sid a couple times a night when things got silly, Godard will be lucky if MT is not making him a healthy scratch.

The bottom line is Ruutu and Malone were capable fighters that took regular shifts.........and were not replaced. That is going to hurt us this year.

Two players that would solve everyone's worries about team toughness and hitting. Shane O'Brien and Jordin Tootoo. End it.
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Postby demangone on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:45 pm

The only "toughness", and I'm using the term loosely, for Detroit would be Kronwall. He leaves his feet a whole lot and takes a lot of people down, other than that I can't think of anyone on Detroit that's really all that tough. We have Orpik, Cooke, and Godard. Kennnedy will throw down, as will Talbot. Not the toughest two, but they'll stand up for their teammates. I think any of the Pens truly would if push comes to shove. I still wish we would've signed Ruutu, but that's water under the bridge. We're still going to be a tough team to play against.
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Postby the wicked child on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:45 pm

IMO, Hossa should not be taken into account when judging if they make the playoffs or not. Hossa was not really a factor until the Rangers series, IMO. Certainly he was not a huge factor in the regular season due to his injury and Sid's.

I hate to lose Malone and Ruutu, but I am not going to worry now about how things will be in April. It is a long season and anything can happen. Not many would have expected a trade for Hossa and a run to the Cup Finals back in January when Sid went down.

Shero has shown that he is willing to make a move to fill the holes... so it is not out of the realm of possibility that he could pick up a guy or 2 at the deadline, or even during the season to fill in the gaps.

I guess I just don't see the value in worrying myself to death right now about what may or may not happen down the line.
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Postby bhaw on Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:50 am

emptyfriend wrote:Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?


The thing about team toughness is that it is a total team attitude. Team toughness is not 3 guys stepping in when need be. Team toughness is Ryan Whitney pounding on Wade Redden in the playoffs when they went after Sid. Godard, Cooke, Orpik, and Gill are the big guns now. But a team isn't team tough unless everyone is dedicated to the cause of not taking crap from other teams. I think the Pens showed that they are ready for that when the playoffs rolled around.

Vs Ottawa: The entire team stepped up all series long when needed. See above with Whitney.

Vs NYR: Gill was all over Avery the games he played and was the first one in when Avery got in MAF's face. Malkin and Sid stirred it up a couple times (see Malkin's slew foot).

Vs Philly: TK got in a fight. Malkin responded to the physicality by torching the Flyers.

Vs Detroit: Orpik and Gill manhandled Holmstrom for the most part. Gonchar came back in after destroying himself into the boards.

None of the examples listed above involve a guy named Roberts, Laraque, Ruutu, or Malone.

This team is definitely in the right mind set to be team tough. I don't care who they lost.
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Postby NJ5934 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:57 am

bhaw wrote:
emptyfriend wrote:Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?


The thing about team toughness is that it is a total team attitude. Team toughness is not 3 guys stepping in when need be. Team toughness is Ryan Whitney pounding on Wade Redden in the playoffs when they went after Sid. Godard, Cooke, Orpik, and Gill are the big guns now. But a team isn't team tough unless everyone is dedicated to the cause of not taking crap from other teams. I think the Pens showed that they are ready for that when the playoffs rolled around.

Vs Ottawa: The entire team stepped up all series long when needed. See above with Whitney.

Vs NYR: Gill was all over Avery the games he played and was the first one in when Avery got in MAF's face. Malkin and Sid stirred it up a couple times (see Malkin's slew foot).

Vs Philly: TK got in a fight. Malkin responded to the physicality by torching the Flyers.

Vs Detroit: Orpik and Gill manhandled Holmstrom for the most part. Gonchar came back in after destroying himself into the boards.

None of the examples listed above involve a guy named Roberts, Laraque, Ruutu, or Malone.

This team is definitely in the right mind set to be team tough. I don't care who they lost.


You are right on about the team attitude, particularly during the playoffs but ultimately you need guys that are willing to answer the bell during the regular season. Malone and Ruutu did on a regular basis.

Most teams in the east got tougher in the offseason (Philly added Asham, NY added Voros, Ottawa - Smith and Ruutu, etc.). We moved in the opposite direction. Instead of adding, we actually lost more grit than any other team this summer. Its going to have an impact, its just a matter of to what degree.

That said, I'm not too concerned. Shero made it clear at one of the PC's that he would go out and obtain it via trade if it became an issue. I think the issue is out there, Shero knows it, the media is aware of it and it will be blown up as soon as Malkin or Sid take a knee or a late hit. Personally I think they will, and I think Shero will be forced to add someone to the lineup. Jordin Tootoo would be ideal but don't rule out the possibility of picking up a Thorburn type off the waiver wire just before the season starts.
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Postby Jasmine on Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:20 am

Agree that the Pens lost a lot of grit, and although we have two of the top players in the league, I believe that one of the reasons we got to the Finals was our toughness. Turned out, also, that Detroit WON because they out-physicaled us (along with some interference and diving). So I am a bit concerned. As some others here have said, effect remains to be seen.
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Postby farnham16 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:39 pm

We are still the best team in the Eastern Conference.
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Postby wallflower on Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:41 pm

the wicked child wrote:I guess I just don't see the value in worrying myself to death right now about what may or may not happen down the line.

Your Pittsburgh sports fan card has probably been revoked for making that statement. :lol:
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Postby the wicked child on Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:51 pm

wallflower wrote:Your Pittsburgh sports fan card has probably been revoked for making that statement. :lol:
:shock:

Oh well. :)
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:53 pm

DelPen wrote:
emptyfriend wrote:Is no one else here a little worried about our team toughness? BGL, Roberts, Ruutu and even Malone is ALOT to lose in the toughness department......Godard and Cooke can hold their own, but I am a 'lil worried about liberties being taken with our stars......I doubt Godard is going to dress every game, so who's gonna step up if they have to?


WHo does Detroit have that fills this role? When Datsyuk or Zetterberg get hit who "steps up"?


Thats why they brought in Hossa.
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:55 pm

Also, Pittsburgh's toughness was never about pushing people around, its about not letting others push them around. They'll still stick up for each other.
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Postby Henry Hank on Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:43 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Also, Pittsburgh's toughness was never about pushing people around, its about not letting others push them around. They'll still stick up for each other.


It was team-wide toughness last year. They lost some members of the team but the spirit remains and most of the guys they brought in aren't pansies. Fedotenko will get his hands dirty even if he isn't a prolific fighter. Cooke is the same. Godard will be looking to prove himself. If Stone makes the team, he's another guy that will play physical and drop the gloves as well. If you look at the team last year, Crosby fought, Staal fought, Letang fought, Kennedy fought, Sydor fought, Whitney fought, Orpik fought, Talbot fought... even Gonchar and Sykora attempted to get into fights. Everyone always wants to paint this team as a bunch of soft skilled players who are easily pushed around. That wasn't the case last year and it still isn't the case even with the roster turnover.
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Postby gregor on Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:28 pm

Coach Therrien will not let this team be soff!

I think this team's toughness starts with its coach. As long as Therrien is behind the bench, this team will be tough to play against and will stand up for each other.

Image

"what's solution?

I gonna find solution"
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Postby doublewinder on Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:13 pm

Uh this is one of the most ridicolous things I've seen.

The Pens combo of Satan/Fedo is not as good as Hossa/Malone...BUT it's better than the combo at the start of and most of last year.

Nevermind Sid was hurt last year from Jan until really the PHI series...and Flower was hurt...as for toughness...why be concerned?

We have Cooke...Goddard...and kept Orpik who all said was gone.
Roberts...he was hurt most of last year.

So again...how is toughness a major dropoff?

The team is not as good as in June..but is better than last October...and they have for a trade.
Also...who in the east has improved?
Further...aren't the Pens still a young team whose core will improve?
Can't Staal improve on last year when he took a fall offensively?
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Postby RainbowsAndCottonCandy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:01 am

Member wrote:
cs6687 wrote:http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/08/22/toth_pass_the_puck_2/

With all the garbage I've been eating this summer, I shouldn't be trusting my gut. But something tells me the Pittsburgh Penguins are headed for a huge fall. The darlings of the NHL last year when they gave Detroit all it could handle in the Cup final, the Pens go into the new season missing some key pieces to the puzzle. Marian Hossa and Ryan Malone are gone and key defenceman Ryan Whitney will miss the first three to five months with a knee problem. To make up for their missing offence, the Penguins are counting on getting some big minutes and big goals out of the mercurial Miroslav Satan, who lit the lamp just 15 times for the Islanders last season. Sure, the Penguins still boast the one-two punch of Crosby and Malkin. However, Tampa Bay finished in the cellar last year despite sending Lecavalier and St. Louis over the boards every night. Prediction? Coach Michel Therrien doesn't last the season and the Penguins shock the NHL by struggling just to make the playoffs.


And if anyone can make sense of this fan comment, please explain:

i dont think that pittsburg is gonna make the playoffs next year they lost all the crosby defenders and crosby and malkin are gonna have injury plaqued seasons cause they dont have any one to protect them, they can protect themselfs.


0-82

The fan is trying to explain that the Penguins will not have a defensemen on their roster in 2008, it will be a full roster compiled of fowards. Crosby and Malkin aren't going to be effective next year because they're weak and can't defend themselves. They'll also miss most of the season with injuries.




82-0
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Postby PenguinSteve-o on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:16 am

"The team of Lecavelier and St. Louis can go toe to toe with Crosby and Malkin any day."

wonder if i asked that fan if you could have any 2 of those 4 players..who would you want on your team? I watched Lecavelier over several games when we played then last year. He is very much of a skater, dosnt back check that much, and dosnt skate hard when he should. he was more of a coaster and waited for his team to get him the puck. kinda like mario in his last year or two haha.
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Postby shmenguin on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:37 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
The Devils will still be very good.


the devils were very good last year? :shock:


...the flyers are worse. the rags are, at best, the same, the devils are going nowhere with those players and the islanders are the islanders.

the division is still ours for a lot of reasons
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