The Point

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The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:58 pm

Just thought I would start some non-cheer leading thread about this upcoming season. Think you can handle it?

Topic #1: The Point.

Ryan Whitney, for all of his defensive short comings, is a very accomplished point man. Some of you rip on him for only scoring back door goals and riding Crosby's coattails. So? Without him on the point for potentially half the season or more, there will be a need for a replacement.

Gonchar, of course will man the right point most of the time. On the second unit you can certainly get by with the likes of Sydor and Letang. In fact, I would be interested to read about how many of you think Letang could be a top unit point man along side Gonchar? Malkin's shot is wicked sick, it's among the best in the league. But he is extremely creative down low as well. It's also possible that Goligoski could make the team and get some power play time.

Letang, to me, is not ready to work on the top unit every shift. It would be ideal to have a righty/lefty shot tandem for a balanced one-timer threat, so I want to see Letang get a good look at the left point in camp. Even if he is on the second unit, he needs to get that one timer off better.

Down low the Pens could employ: Satan, Fedotenko, Staal. Malkin. Crosby, Sykora, and possibly Pesanon (a 4th liner/PP spec) among other hot hands that Therrien deems worthy. They have the depth to use a Malkin on the point, and they should do so. Anytime you have 2 of the best players on the ice together with the man advantage you are going to get results. The regular season is the time to learn a new role, like rushing the puck up ice and becoming dependable defensively on the left point. Offensively, Malkin needs only to be himself.

The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?
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Postby tjand72 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:59 pm

What is it?
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Postby bhaw on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:30 pm

Another Whitney bashing thread... awesome.
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Postby beerman on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:40 pm

If the power play is doing well when Whitney comes back, I see that as a good problem to have. Also who knows by the time Whitney comes back someone else could be out with an injury if this season goes anything like the last.

I'd like to see Letang get a look there just to see what he can do. I have a feeling they'll go with one stacked pp unit with Malkin and Gonch on the points like in the playoffs last year.
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Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:49 pm

beerman wrote:If the power play is doing well when Whitney comes back, I see that as a good problem to have. Also who knows by the time Whitney comes back someone else could be out with an injury if this season goes anything like the last.

I'd like to see Letang get a look there just to see what he can do. I have a feeling they'll go with one stacked pp unit with Malkin and Gonch on the points like in the playoffs last year.


That is a very nice problem to have.
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Re: The Point

Postby Pitts on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:21 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.
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Re: The Point

Postby canaan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:25 am

Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


laraque signed elsewhere. he needs a new goat. :wink:
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Re: The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:26 am

Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.
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Re: The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:27 am

canaan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


laraque signed elsewhere. he needs a new goat. :wink:


You're kind of paranoid I guess. Nobody bashed your hero Whitney. And don't tell me he is awesome defensively and I am being unfair. And don't tell me that he is better than Malkin either.
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Re: The Point

Postby canaan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:32 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
canaan wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


laraque signed elsewhere. he needs a new goat. :wink:


You're kind of paranoid I guess. Nobody bashed your hero Whitney. And don't tell me he is awesome defensively and I am being unfair. And don't tell me that he is better than Malkin either.


yep. whitney is my hero. no question there. no sarcasm here.
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Re: The Point

Postby Pitts on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:14 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?
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Re: The Point

Postby beerman on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:16 am

Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


I agree, I feel that he'll end up playing the point especially now that Whitney won't be around for a while, but I don't like the idea of putting someone where they are uncomfortable being. If he doesn't like being there it effects the pp, we'd be better off with someone else in that position, imo.
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Re: The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:18 am

Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


Because he is better at it than Brooks Orpik? I dunno, you tell me who to play there.

BTW I hate certain tasks of my job too, but my boss makes the rules.
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Re: The Point

Postby beerman on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:21 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


Because he is better at it than Brooks Orpik? I dunno, you tell me who to play there.

BTW I hate certain tasks of my job too, but my boss makes the rules.


Sid said he likes the idea of one stacked pp, so im not convinced that its MT that wants Malkin there as much as it is Sid.

And if thats the reason MT puts Malkin there I wholeheartedly disagree with it.
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Re: The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:27 am

beerman wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


Because he is better at it than Brooks Orpik? I dunno, you tell me who to play there.

BTW I hate certain tasks of my job too, but my boss makes the rules.


Sid said he likes the idea of one stacked pp, so im not convinced that its MT that wants Malkin there as much as it is Sid.

And if thats the reason MT puts Malkin there I wholeheartedly disagree with it.


Just because Crosby agrees with a move the coach makes, DOES NOT mean he is the coach.
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Re: The Point

Postby beerman on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:32 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
beerman wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


Because he is better at it than Brooks Orpik? I dunno, you tell me who to play there.

BTW I hate certain tasks of my job too, but my boss makes the rules.


Sid said he likes the idea of one stacked pp, so im not convinced that its MT that wants Malkin there as much as it is Sid.

And if thats the reason MT puts Malkin there I wholeheartedly disagree with it.


Just because Crosby agrees with a move the coach makes, DOES NOT mean he is the coach.


I understand that but while the injury situations were going on with Sid and Hossa, Sid said he liked the idea of having one stacked pp unit. When everyone was healthy what did we get? one stacked unit, I feel Sid had something to do with it.

While MT has the obligation to do what is right for the team he also has to put his players in a situation where they are comfortable and can help the team. If he is putting one player, Malkin, in a situation in which he is uncomfortable and won't be helping the team to the best of his abilities at the request of another player, Sid, then I just don't agree with it.
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Postby beerman on Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:34 am

And in no way am I attempting to bash Sid in the above post
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Re: The Point

Postby PenguinHockeyFanatic on Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:47 am

beerman wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
beerman wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:
Pitts wrote:
PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:The only question remains: what to do with Whitney when he gets healthy?

I didn't know this would actually be a question. You insert your 2nd highest paid defenseman right back into the rotation where he was and belongs.


Sure, and then put Malkin down low on the LW. But he will get less shots over there.

Malkin hates playing the point, so why would you force him to play a position he dislikes?


Because he is better at it than Brooks Orpik? I dunno, you tell me who to play there.

BTW I hate certain tasks of my job too, but my boss makes the rules.


Sid said he likes the idea of one stacked pp, so im not convinced that its MT that wants Malkin there as much as it is Sid.

And if thats the reason MT puts Malkin there I wholeheartedly disagree with it.


Just because Crosby agrees with a move the coach makes, DOES NOT mean he is the coach.


I understand that but while the injury situations were going on with Sid and Hossa, Sid said he liked the idea of having one stacked pp unit. When everyone was healthy what did we get? one stacked unit, I feel Sid had something to do with it.

While MT has the obligation to do what is right for the team he also has to put his players in a situation where they are comfortable and can help the team. If he is putting one player, Malkin, in a situation in which he is uncomfortable and won't be helping the team to the best of his abilities at the request of another player, Sid, then I just don't agree with it.



I don't think you understand.


First. If Crosby says something on a radio show, at any point in time, either before or after the coaching move is made. It does not mean that he is calling the shots. Agreeing with a coaching move or suggesting something publicly that turns out to be a coaching move does not mean it was his decision. It just doesn't.

Second. If Crosby DOES make a coaching suggestion, and that suggestion is followed. Who cares? Isn't that what good team captains do? Speak up on behalf of the players and work with the coaching staff for the betterment of the team? Whether or not the suggestion is followed is the coaches decision, that's his job. If Malkin was uncomfortable with the idea from the beginning, and unwilling to take on the task, he didn't say so then. There is no evidence that neither Crosby or Therrien forced him to make the move against his will. None.

Third. Stacking the top power play, which usually plays more minutes than the second unit, is very. very common in the world of hockey at every level of play and especially so in the NHL. Coaches have learned long ago to try and take FULL advantage of the man advantage. It's considered common sense among many hockey enthusiasts. There is an extra player out there, that greatly increases a teams defensive prowess all by itself.

Fourth. The power play experienced great success with Malkin on the point, he scored numerous big goes from there. They won the first 3 games in each of the first 3 rounds. It wasn't until his Richards gaff that he started to second guess himself out there. Perhaps the coaches should have picked up on that sooner and moved him back into a comfort level. That's rational criticism, but to suggest that Crosby would not allow that to happen is not rational. The coaches stuck to their guns, they wanted their star to play through it. He failed. Hard lesson learned for everyone.

Finally. Shooters are allowed more time an opportunities to shoot from the points. It is very common practice in the NHL to have a forward play the point. Jerome Iginla is a good example of that. Training camp and the early part of the regular season are good times to experiment with a forward at the point, which is why the move was a little bit surprising to many. But this season Malkin should have more of a feel for it.
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Postby Why So Serious? on Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:34 am

Personally:

Letang-Gonchar
Staal-Crosby-Satan

Orpik-Gonchar
Fedotenko-Malkin-Sykora

I've always been a fan of having 2 legit and balanced PP lines. However, we may end up seeing something like:

Letang-Gonchar
Satan/Staal-Crosby-Malkin

I like the idea of putting Staal with Crosby & Malkin to have a big guy in front of the net. And then you can leave Crosby or Malkin out for the 2nd unit to center that 2nd unit. I dunno, just my two cents.
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Postby jmh470 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:50 am

Malkin does not hate playing the point. He hates playing the left point, a position which he cannot use his slapshot (which is the best on the team).
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Re: The Point

Postby beerman on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:18 am

PenguinHockeyFanatic wrote:I don't think you understand.


First. If Crosby says something on a radio show, at any point in time, either before or after the coaching move is made. It does not mean that he is calling the shots. Agreeing with a coaching move or suggesting something publicly that turns out to be a coaching move does not mean it was his decision. It just doesn't.

Second. If Crosby DOES make a coaching suggestion, and that suggestion is followed. Who cares? Isn't that what good team captains do? Speak up on behalf of the players and work with the coaching staff for the betterment of the team? Whether or not the suggestion is followed is the coaches decision, that's his job. If Malkin was uncomfortable with the idea from the beginning, and unwilling to take on the task, he didn't say so then. There is no evidence that neither Crosby or Therrien forced him to make the move against his will. None.

Third. Stacking the top power play, which usually plays more minutes than the second unit, is very. very common in the world of hockey at every level of play and especially so in the NHL. Coaches have learned long ago to try and take FULL advantage of the man advantage. It's considered common sense among many hockey enthusiasts. There is an extra player out there, that greatly increases a teams defensive prowess all by itself.

Fourth. The power play experienced great success with Malkin on the point, he scored numerous big goes from there. They won the first 3 games in each of the first 3 rounds. It wasn't until his Richards gaff that he started to second guess himself out there. Perhaps the coaches should have picked up on that sooner and moved him back into a comfort level. That's rational criticism, but to suggest that Crosby would not allow that to happen is not rational. The coaches stuck to their guns, they wanted their star to play through it. He failed. Hard lesson learned for everyone.

Finally. Shooters are allowed more time an opportunities to shoot from the points. It is very common practice in the NHL to have a forward play the point. Jerome Iginla is a good example of that. Training camp and the early part of the regular season are good times to experiment with a forward at the point, which is why the move was a little bit surprising to many. But this season Malkin should have more of a feel for it.


Well I never said that I absolutely without a doubt thought that is why Geno was on the point. It was just an observation and a possiblity. I think part of the reason Geno was so uncomfortable at it is he started doing it at the very end of the season and then in the playoffs, I think with a whole season under his belt he'd be much more comfortable. Plus I never said that Crosby wouldn't allow him to be moved so don't say it's not rational and put words in my mouth.

I don't really need an explanation on the advantage of a stacked pp unit, I said in the beginning that I felt this is the road they'll probably take anyway.
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Postby penny lane on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:28 am

Here's hoping Jordan Staal, right from the start, gets some goals on the PP. Any sustained production from him will go a long way to filling voids.

Jordan and Kris Letang, two who need to step up in their supporting roles to help the pens get off to a good start.
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Postby shmenguin on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:38 am

i wanted to see this last year, and i'd like to see it this year: sid on the point with gonchar

if malkin and crosby are both on unit 1, we need a forward on the point. there's not enough room for both of them up front (assuming we use a big body in front of the net). malkin's got a heavy shot, but isn't necessarily the best decision maker from that spot. conversely, he's an incredible decision maker from the spot sid was at during the playoffs (at this point, i'd even say he's better at that spot than sid).

and sid...i think he could be good in whitney's spot. he doesn't have a big shot, but the whitney spot isn't really supposed to shoot as things are constructed. he's got the best puck control on the team (between him and gonchar, nothing would leave the zone - like rafalski and lidstrom). and he could cycle down low and rotate with a forward, which could cause chaos for the other team.

...just a thought
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Postby ffemtreed on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:39 am

Other than D pairings our PP lines are pretty easy for this year.

#1 PP Sid, Malkin, Fedotenko
#2 PP Sykora, Staal, Satan (this could be #1 on many teams)

That is two balanced lines with someone who will play in front of the net and have snipers firing at them. I guess you can arugue to swap Staal and Fedotenko.

Now for the D pairs

#1 Whitney -- Gonchar
#2 Letang -- Gonchar

While Whitney is recovering move Letang up and use Sydor or Gogo if he is on the roster on the second PP
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Postby newarenanow on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:49 am

One time I was at a game, and the Pens were on the PP. Whitney had the puck at the point, and the lady behind me kept screaming "pass it to the point! Pass it to the point! You suck!".

I was confused. After two or three PPs, someone asked her what the hell she was talking about. She said Whitney shouldn't have the puck up there and they should pass it down to the Point to Ryan Malone closer to the net.

Everyone started to laugh. Good stuff. She didn't talk the rest of the game.
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